The material from which it is made is not copper, bronze or anything else suitable for this type of earphone plug.
It's aluminum.
It has only a thin layer that allows the cable to be soldering.
It's aluminum.
It has only a thin layer that allows the cable to be soldering.
In the case of FiiO players or BT receivers, it seems the balanced connection brings more power, not because of the principle, but in this way they use two dac chips paralelled instead of a single one, as in a normal, SE conection. My question is this:
Can I do something wrong to the FiiO output by making an adapter from the 2.5mm output to a single ended 3.5 mm output?
In another words, is there some problem if I link together the two "minus" pins of the balanced output, R- to L-?
And, if I do this, can I still benefit of the 3 times more power?
Can I do something wrong to the FiiO output by making an adapter from the 2.5mm output to a single ended 3.5 mm output?
In another words, is there some problem if I link together the two "minus" pins of the balanced output, R- to L-?
And, if I do this, can I still benefit of the 3 times more power?
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Well, all headphones should have 2 poles on each sides. As long as they are wired toward +/- of a cables, then it is balanced. Then, if they are wired so that both the - are joined, they are single ended
Whitigir, I know that. And I don't expect to make balanced from the unbalanced connection, just to know it there's any risc for the player to join L- to R- to make a SE output from the 2.5mm output in FiiO BTR-3K. The goal should be the 3 times more power from this output, compared with the 3.5mm single ended, which has only 25mW in 32 ohms.
In this thread I also read there's a balanced cable for the HD560S, can someone indicate me the pinout at the 2.5mm connector? I don't want to dissasamble the headphones for this...indeed, the connector has 4 poles, but I was sure it's for some compatibility with the microphone version of this headphone, those used for gaming.
^ If your goal is "more power", you will not achieve it the way you're describing. If you short the inverted signals to each other and to ground, leaving only the 'positive' waveforms referenced to GND, you have, by definition, removed 1/2 of your voltage swing. You can do the math to determine the resulting power differential. Yes, it will work, you will get music, but it won't result in more power.
Without a schematic, I cannot be certain, but there's also a chance that your product is already wired internally to short the inverted signals to ground during single-ended operation with the 3.5mm TRS plug.
tl;dr - I would avoid doing what you're describing if only because it will not have the result you hope to achieve. Buy or build the proper balanced cable if you want "more power".
A quick internet search will yield the pinouts you desire. You may even decide to read this full thread to see how others approached a similar issue. You may also see that I've already posted what you've asked for. You may also enjoy reading a bit more about balanced wiring and differential signals.
Good luck, and have fun!
Without a schematic, I cannot be certain, but there's also a chance that your product is already wired internally to short the inverted signals to ground during single-ended operation with the 3.5mm TRS plug.
tl;dr - I would avoid doing what you're describing if only because it will not have the result you hope to achieve. Buy or build the proper balanced cable if you want "more power".
A quick internet search will yield the pinouts you desire. You may even decide to read this full thread to see how others approached a similar issue. You may also see that I've already posted what you've asked for. You may also enjoy reading a bit more about balanced wiring and differential signals.
Good luck, and have fun!
I don't have a direct link to the GND of the 3.5mm...I imagine there will be something like two bridged outputs, I tie together L- and R- but I don't use the GND. Or, at least, that's I expect, and the headphones for this test will be high impedance, 250 ohms, so the double output voltage could be a benefit.
You ONLY get the increased power / voltage swing when using the proper cable and pinout. Build or buy one using the 2.5mm TRRS. Your diagram in #44 does not result in more power. You've just used a different male jack with (perhaps) the same internal wiring as when using the 3.5mm.
No, it will be custom built by me, following the FiiO wiring. I used it also to make a balanced cable for my Hifiman and it works good. So, the 2.5mm in fiio is that in my diagram.
Not sure what you're asking or stating. My apologies. You seem to be perfectly prepared.
You know the proper pinout for the 2.5mm Fiio connection. You built a cable for your Hifiman HPs.
You know the proper connections for your Senn HPs. (Very simple).
Build / buy the balanced cable for the Senns, and voila?! I feel like I have missed a key part of what you want. I understood your previous question, but now that you know that will not produce the result you want (more power) are you OK to get the proper cable?
You know the proper pinout for the 2.5mm Fiio connection. You built a cable for your Hifiman HPs.
You know the proper connections for your Senn HPs. (Very simple).
Build / buy the balanced cable for the Senns, and voila?! I feel like I have missed a key part of what you want. I understood your previous question, but now that you know that will not produce the result you want (more power) are you OK to get the proper cable?
My question is if there could be a problem for the player if I link together L- and R-, as I don't know the internal output wiring of the BTR-3KBTR-3Kl
Perhaps I used some technically incorrect terms trying to make it easier, but instead caused confusion trying to explain L- and R- being actually shorted to signal GND. My apologies. Let me try to make it more simple.
Don't do that.
The R- and L- signals from the output would now be combined. They're just the inverted signals from R+ and L+. That combined pair is not a "clean" GND or OV reference. It's not the same as shorting the inverted signal to GND on the input of an amplifier like with an XLR to RCA converting plugs for an amplifier input. You're combining those two signals onto the same wire. You're not shorting them to a signal GND.
The combined L- and R- signals the way you have it drawn would now be referenced against the R+ and L+ signals independently for the L and R drivers. You can't just draw a 'G' on the diagram and that be a ground / clean 0V (or other) reference.. What you want is R+ referenced against R-, and the same for the left channel. That's how you get double the voltage swing with a differential signal. I can try to draw you a pic if needed.
NO, as previously explained (and even if it were wired properly). So, why not just use the 3.5mm jack that's already there?
Previously answered. It will not do what you think (even if it were wired properly). Don't do it.
If you want more power, build the proper cable.
Others with a better way of explaining may have better luck. I think I know what your idea is, but it will not work the way you have it drawn.
I hope that helps a bit more, and sorry for getting a bit off topic earlier with my poor explanation re: shorting the inverted signals to GND. I can see by re-reading how I may have said that wrong and caused confusion.
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OK, that I was afraid of....so, if there's previous reports that this doesn't work as expected, it seems that there is a common ground for both "balanced" outputs, so the real output seems similar to the microphones connection. In this case, if I link together L- and R-, the "negative" side will be parallelled and of course the quality of the signal will decrease, leading to distorstion...or worse.
My idea would have worked if the two channel could be totally independent....
My idea would have worked if the two channel could be totally independent....
No. That's where (not trying to be mean) your fundamental lack of understanding re: differential signal hurts you. There is no GND that is relevant for differential. The R+ is referenced against R- and the same for left as previously stated. There is not a ground (0V) reference. That's how you get double the voltage swing. If I have R+ at 1V against a 0V reference, the potential difference is 1V. If I have R+ at 1V against a -1V R-, I have 2V of potential difference. Make sense? Can't type too much more, b/c it's way OT now, and there's plenty of people and pictures that can do a way better job of explaining than I can.
Well, I understand the balanced connection, but I don't know what's inside FiiO....if it's like the left drawing, with a common ground for both outputs, even if not connected externally, then linking L- to R- will sound bad. IF the two outputs are independent for real, then it should work, like the right drawing.
But if there are statements of people not achieving a good result, that's it....I will stick to the two balanced headphones for which I already made apropriate cables. I'm not the fan of the idea of spending 100 euros or more for a cable I can diy at home, sometimes with better results.
But if there are statements of people not achieving a good result, that's it....I will stick to the two balanced headphones for which I already made apropriate cables. I'm not the fan of the idea of spending 100 euros or more for a cable I can diy at home, sometimes with better results.
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Was AFK for a bit, as you were it seems. This is probably best kept for another thread. However, I will do my best (albeit most likely poorly) to try one last time to explain further....
Your diagram on the right that you wish it could be is actually precisely correct. That's the way it works with a differential signal. That's what you get from the 2.5mm TRRS jack from your device: R+, R-, L+, and L-.
Your diagram on the left is wrong as it relates to your 3.5mm TRS output. You have a 0V reference (a GND), but the L- and R- signals are not tied to it. If they were, then it would not be a 0V reference. I am sure there's someone that could explain better than I. My apologies. I hope my previous attempts at trying to describe a ground (0V) reference for a 'single-ended' configuration didn't cause you confusion.
I wish you well, and I hope my novice attempts at explanations have not made matters worse. If I were better at pictures / drawings / terms ...
Heck, I could have it all wrong. If I do, then I hope someone will publicly call me a dunce and show you the correct way.
tl;dr - build or buy the proper cable to connect the 2.5mm TRRS output from your Fiio to your Senns if you want the extra power / voltage swing that comes from the differential signal / 'balanced output'. Based on your experience with your Hifiman cable... why not build one?
Your diagram on the right that you wish it could be is actually precisely correct. That's the way it works with a differential signal. That's what you get from the 2.5mm TRRS jack from your device: R+, R-, L+, and L-.
Your diagram on the left is wrong as it relates to your 3.5mm TRS output. You have a 0V reference (a GND), but the L- and R- signals are not tied to it. If they were, then it would not be a 0V reference. I am sure there's someone that could explain better than I. My apologies. I hope my previous attempts at trying to describe a ground (0V) reference for a 'single-ended' configuration didn't cause you confusion.
I wish you well, and I hope my novice attempts at explanations have not made matters worse. If I were better at pictures / drawings / terms ...
Heck, I could have it all wrong. If I do, then I hope someone will publicly call me a dunce and show you the correct way.
tl;dr - build or buy the proper cable to connect the 2.5mm TRRS output from your Fiio to your Senns if you want the extra power / voltage swing that comes from the differential signal / 'balanced output'. Based on your experience with your Hifiman cable... why not build one?
Is that true that HD560S has the option to ballanced connection out of the box? I noticed there's 4 pole connector, but was sure it's for compatibility to the microphone models....I cannot measure the internal connections without dissasemble the headphones....
I had assumed you had checked this previously, but my guess is no, it's not set up for that out of the box. My guess is based on a quick Google search showing that the cable only runs to one side of the HPs (a lot of HPs that are designed for use with balanced cables / differential signal have a cable that splits and goes to both sides / a separate connection for each driver). Also, the connection to the headphones seems to be a 3.5mm TRS implying 3 conductors (or 2 + a shield). That further implies that the 'negative' left and right driver terminals are tied together within the headphones.
However, if someone is out there selling a 'balanced' cable (2.5mm TRRS to 3.5mm TRS) specifically noted to work with the HD560S, perhaps ask them for their diagram. I've guessed incorrectly before, and it likely is not the last time I'll be wrong. So, YMMV. 😀
However, if someone is out there selling a 'balanced' cable (2.5mm TRRS to 3.5mm TRS) specifically noted to work with the HD560S, perhaps ask them for their diagram. I've guessed incorrectly before, and it likely is not the last time I'll be wrong. So, YMMV. 😀
I cannot reach now to the original cable, I use now the HD560S with some aliexpress cable which has TRS jack. But the original has TRRS at the headphone end. I will check and come back here...if this is balanced, there has to be connected internally as L+, R+, L-, R- starting from the tip. This will also be compatible to 3-pole TRS jacks.