I hope thats true, also any manufacturer who advertises 10 inchers for midrange duty.
JBL and precision devices even advertises 12 inchers.
Another question, in your opinion do analague equalisers compromise sound quality significantly?
Nothing wrong with a 10" mid. As long as your horn driver can keep up.. Plenty can.
Plenty of 15" and horn combos out there too. Big horns.
Plenty of 15" and horn combos out there too. Big horns.
tech.knockout said:
I think that historically they did, back when op-amps were just being introduced, or when other methods were used. These days, an analog equalizer using quality components (power supply, etc) and modern opamps should be low in noise and distortion.
Furthermore, a purpose-built analog correction circuit that does just one equalization task can sound nearly as good as if the task were performed with passive components in the crossover. If used correctly, they essentially disappear. You're very unlikely to notice the detrimental effects.
Cheap analog EQs are likeley to compromise sound quality, not for any inherent reason, but because manufacturers need to cut corners to make a profit. If you were to take a cheapie EQ and replace the power supply, trace the signal path to make sure the componets are all rated correctly, and replace any "weak link" active components in the path, then it could become a nice tool for improving what your speakers actually sound like in your room.
You could also just get an EQ designed for professional use, based on professional opinions, since the people running $50k speaker rigs for top bands aren't going to tolerate noise or distortion from a component that is supposed to be transparent.
Anyway- just my two cents. MP3 is worse than adding an EQ.
well anyways, I posted that pic to show you why I'm was shooting for huge when I decided on the 18/12 project. Here it is again one more time.
After I'm done with the BBBIB I will redo my Sharp Cp-9000 15" 3-way for about $220. After that I plan to make a bigger version of the Cerwin Vega CLS-215 for about the same price of the CLS-215 only that will include my amplification too. Then I will tackle whatever the 18/12 will of turned into by them. By then I will have conjured up some sort of monsterous subwoofer comfiguration. Plans are leaking out that MSS inc has plans for something called the M-21. The rumor is they are planning on 21" woofers, 15" mid bass/lower voice, 10" mid range, horn loaded compression driver.
After I'm done with the BBBIB I will redo my Sharp Cp-9000 15" 3-way for about $220. After that I plan to make a bigger version of the Cerwin Vega CLS-215 for about the same price of the CLS-215 only that will include my amplification too. Then I will tackle whatever the 18/12 will of turned into by them. By then I will have conjured up some sort of monsterous subwoofer comfiguration. Plans are leaking out that MSS inc has plans for something called the M-21. The rumor is they are planning on 21" woofers, 15" mid bass/lower voice, 10" mid range, horn loaded compression driver. Attachments
"So at around half power with the BBBIB you should be up around 117 dB full range. Should be adaquate..."
That is not too much - having 120dB SPL at full power, entry level compact box from rcf using 12"/1" gives you max spl of 126dB
Punkrockr - not the count but the quality of speakers gives you good sound ...
That is not too much - having 120dB SPL at full power, entry level compact box from rcf using 12"/1" gives you max spl of 126dB
Punkrockr - not the count but the quality of speakers gives you good sound ...
deiksac said:
I think it's been said that I know that, of course there's 75 pages now so I don't blame you for missing when I said that I realized that.
Once again, I know what good sound is, I've heard and appreciated it but it's not what I want. As Pano put it I live in the SPL competition, booming bass world, does this mean I won't build a good quality speaker? No. If you haven't seen it yet check this link it is what the guys here have conjured up for me.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=88104&perpage=10&pagenumber=1
This thread was split so ideas wouldn't be mixed up and cause chaos. After the BBBIB's are done I want to be able to move air, and move alot of it at loud SPL levels.
I know there are ways to get intensely loud, like Cal Weldon's A7's. Highly efficient drivers+horn loading=eqauls intense SPL levels. But This thread is dedicated to speakers like The Montana WAS or the Opal giant pictured.
Attachments
The outragously big speaker post ( my favorite ) Ok, once thye BBBIB is done wI'm loking at replacing the speakers in my old Sharp CP-9000's. THere are 10 years old so don't bother googlin them they aren't even in Sharps database anymore.lol.
So they will also be a "econo" project and I think I've have a combination that will work and still be afforable.
Woofer
Mid
Tweeter
Crossover
These aren't top of line line parts but they are surely reasonable for an econo project. I'm using the same size drivers as the original cabinet cause I don't wanna have to fiddle with the cabimet and I like the old school look and sound these speakers have. The one part I might have some doubts about is the crossover. If anyone has a problem with this set up feel free to give me a rec but it has to be the same size drivers and if you think you can do better than these^ for $250 altogether let me know. I think it's very reasonable, I'll have a 15" woofer that will be much louder than most home system speakers. I think it's a good match up and very reasonable for the cost. Yes I'm a pioneer fan when it comes to econo projects.
PS the cabinet is roughly 3.5ft^3 sealed
) Ok, once thye BBBIB is done wI'm loking at replacing the speakers in my old Sharp CP-9000's. THere are 10 years old so don't bother googlin them they aren't even in Sharps database anymore.lol.So they will also be a "econo" project and I think I've have a combination that will work and still be afforable.
Woofer
Mid
Tweeter
Crossover
These aren't top of line line parts but they are surely reasonable for an econo project. I'm using the same size drivers as the original cabinet cause I don't wanna have to fiddle with the cabimet and I like the old school look and sound these speakers have. The one part I might have some doubts about is the crossover. If anyone has a problem with this set up feel free to give me a rec but it has to be the same size drivers and if you think you can do better than these^ for $250 altogether let me know. I think it's very reasonable, I'll have a 15" woofer
that will be much louder than most home system speakers. I think it's a good match up and very reasonable for the cost. Yes I'm a pioneer fan when it comes to econo projects. PS the cabinet is roughly 3.5ft^3 sealed
Those Pioneer drivers should all work together OK and with that X-Over. Don't know about the box.
You should run that Woofer in WinISD in your box to see what you get. You can lock the box size by clicking on it, then just change the port tunings to see what happens.
You should run that Woofer in WinISD in your box to see what you get. You can lock the box size by clicking on it, then just change the port tunings to see what happens.
I ran Window beta with the Pionner woofer at full power it performs great with an impressive 97 db @ 20 Hz and it peakes @ arpund 116db after it reaches 100Hz
whats the sensitivity of this "BBBIB" speaker?
I have doubts this would satisfy the kid, he just wants a party speaker that creates lots of noise. If thats the case let him have his 4 tweeters and 3 midranges, whatever....
The beta-lt only has a 2" voice coil and if im not msitaken you are only horn loading the bass to make up for the low xmax. The midrange alone may be able to fry the VC if the kid cranks it up to deafening party levels. At 200W power rating the speaker would barely touch 120db.
I have doubts this would satisfy the kid, he just wants a party speaker that creates lots of noise. If thats the case let him have his 4 tweeters and 3 midranges, whatever....
The beta-lt only has a 2" voice coil and if im not msitaken you are only horn loading the bass to make up for the low xmax. The midrange alone may be able to fry the VC if the kid cranks it up to deafening party levels. At 200W power rating the speaker would barely touch 120db.
-----whats the sensitivity of this "BBBIB" speaker?
appears to be 99 db down to about 30 hz Maybe 100 at some "points"
------I have doubts this would satisfy the kid, he just wants a party speaker that creates lots of noise. If thats the case let him have his 4 tweeters and 3 midranges, whatever....
There is no "sound police" to force punkrockr to do as we say,
He can always do whatever he wants. Maybe he sees some value in listening to more experienced people. This will sound better, and it is cheaper (and his funds are severely limited) and it will be very loud.
-------The beta-lt only has a 2" voice coil
Often smaller voice coils sound better...and the power rating is plenty considering the efficiency of the speaker.
-----and if im not msitaken you are only horn loading the bass to make up for the low xmax.
Not really: low cost, lower bass, better bass, more efficiency creating a lower and cheaper power requirement, cheaper driver, better sounding driver.
-------The midrange alone may be able to fry the VC if the kid cranks it up to deafening party levels. At 200W power rating the speaker would barely touch 120db.
I calc 128 watts for 120dB for the bass Although much is made of high power amps being cheap these days, a lower power one is REALLY cheap. His room isn't huge and 120dB is stupid loud if it isn't some inflated number based on optimistic amp specs and speaker efficiencies.
If your really want to be helpful why don't you read the entire thread mentioned in the first post and come up with something better. Check out the pre designed party speakers we mentioned in the beginning. Pay special attention to the budget towards the end. There are various budgets mentioned, but they get lower and lower and eventually include the amps also. Make sure to post your better idea on that thread, as this thread is only for the BBBIB.
appears to be 99 db down to about 30 hz Maybe 100 at some "points"
------I have doubts this would satisfy the kid, he just wants a party speaker that creates lots of noise. If thats the case let him have his 4 tweeters and 3 midranges, whatever....
There is no "sound police" to force punkrockr to do as we say,
He can always do whatever he wants. Maybe he sees some value in listening to more experienced people. This will sound better, and it is cheaper (and his funds are severely limited) and it will be very loud.
-------The beta-lt only has a 2" voice coil
Often smaller voice coils sound better...and the power rating is plenty considering the efficiency of the speaker.
-----and if im not msitaken you are only horn loading the bass to make up for the low xmax.
Not really: low cost, lower bass, better bass, more efficiency creating a lower and cheaper power requirement, cheaper driver, better sounding driver.
-------The midrange alone may be able to fry the VC if the kid cranks it up to deafening party levels. At 200W power rating the speaker would barely touch 120db.
I calc 128 watts for 120dB for the bass Although much is made of high power amps being cheap these days, a lower power one is REALLY cheap. His room isn't huge and 120dB is stupid loud if it isn't some inflated number based on optimistic amp specs and speaker efficiencies.
If your really want to be helpful why don't you read the entire thread mentioned in the first post and come up with something better. Check out the pre designed party speakers we mentioned in the beginning. Pay special attention to the budget towards the end. There are various budgets mentioned, but they get lower and lower and eventually include the amps also. Make sure to post your better idea on that thread, as this thread is only for the BBBIB.
We went through soooooo many designs, but very feeeeeeeew people were willing to commit to actually designing the crossovers. Mainly because doing it long distance is problematic.
Further, the budget is a moving target. I see why punckrocker went for this- its cheap, big box, loud, big bass if the music has it.Most of the things he requested. Sounding good was mentioned. In fact he never requested a PA system.
Further, the budget is a moving target. I see why punckrocker went for this- its cheap, big box, loud, big bass if the music has it.Most of the things he requested. Sounding good was mentioned. In fact he never requested a PA system.
I havent read all of the first thread, lol, but i have read enough of it to conclude that he only wants noise and especially to impress his friends. Any form of SQ isnt really a major objective. Two 12" isnt going to impress his friends, particulary the one who has 10+ 15" woofers. Indeed, two horn loaded beta12 wont match 10+ monopoled 15" relatively high excursion woofers in the SPL department. I also rememebr reading he may want to use these speakers outdoors occaisonally, so the bbbib speaker may not be be up to the task here as the horn doesnt have as much loading; considering punkrokr's objective of massive SPL.
Thus the better idea for his budget, as already mentioned, is roughly speaking; several cheap cheap tweeters, and lots and lots of the cheapest 12"/15"/18" woofers.
Now, you were talking to a kid who wants a simple party speaker with lots of SQ and decent SPL(punkrokr on the other hand is all about maximum spl and outrageous size/looks), this speaker would please him.
Outdoor system never requested.
A bunch of cheap 15" woofers in a cabinet is gonna cost a LOT more than the BBBIB.Or course sound a lot worse worse, too That may well be what he wants, but why ask us about it then? I think he could make that himself.
A bunch of cheap 15" woofers in a cabinet is gonna cost a LOT more than the BBBIB.Or course sound a lot worse worse, too That may well be what he wants, but why ask us about it then? I think he could make that himself.
Variac said:
From partsexpress you can buy two 15" goldwood woofers for roughly one beta 12. Add a couple of $5 tweeters.
You americans have it lucky with huge vendors like partsexpress offering so many options at such low prices.
I also dont think he had a plan cast in stone from the beginning, its apparent to anyone he quites confused.
The kid took a long time and many forum pages to discover what he wants deep down.
However, by now its obvious to me he wants maximum spl and outrageous looks.
As I said, Punkrockr can build anything he wants, perhaps you can design an alternative for him. Another party system/PA is always amusing!
My opinion is that Punkr HAS thought carefully and made rerasonable decision:
He won't be satisfied until he has at leat 4 18" drivers in his speakers. 4 Fifteen inchers isn't enough to impress his friend/arch audio enemy who has a bunch of 15"ers. His friend will still win!
HE is also a little intrigued by a bit of quality after talking about it here. We proposed cheaper 18" drivers and he didn't want them.
So what I think happened is that he is now excited about EVENTUALLY getting a decent sounding set of HUGE speakers with 18" drivers top and bottom, 2 12" midranges, and a middle tweeter. a WMTMW. BUT he realizes that this will be quite expensive, as he does have an idea now that a better quality driver is more desireable, an active crossover with multiamping is looking like a good idea,( especially because no one here is willing to design a crossover by mail for such an expensive and complicated system)
BUT his budget is VERY low, as he wants to buy an AV receiver to have lots of channels to test his ultimate tri-amped speaker when he builds it later . HE is just starting out and doesn't seem to have an amp. Personally, I think he should buy an old HAfler or Adcom 100 plus watts/ch amp for less than $200 OR an old monster receiver for $100 from his local Craigs List (craigslist.org) or e-bay (riskier) instead of the AV receiver, but he gets to choose- its his money.
I think he also want something unique - not just copying a design from a website such as Parts Express.
So, by building the BBBIB he will get: unique, big box, loud bass, low price- and he isn't directly competing with his arch enemy- pretty clever.
Then he will save to get the speaker of his dreams. Who knows? THAT might turn out to include 4 18" drivers in BIB boxes next to what he is now building...
😀
My opinion is that Punkr HAS thought carefully and made rerasonable decision:
He won't be satisfied until he has at leat 4 18" drivers in his speakers. 4 Fifteen inchers isn't enough to impress his friend/arch audio enemy who has a bunch of 15"ers. His friend will still win!
HE is also a little intrigued by a bit of quality after talking about it here. We proposed cheaper 18" drivers and he didn't want them.
So what I think happened is that he is now excited about EVENTUALLY getting a decent sounding set of HUGE speakers with 18" drivers top and bottom, 2 12" midranges, and a middle tweeter. a WMTMW. BUT he realizes that this will be quite expensive, as he does have an idea now that a better quality driver is more desireable, an active crossover with multiamping is looking like a good idea,( especially because no one here is willing to design a crossover by mail for such an expensive and complicated system)
BUT his budget is VERY low, as he wants to buy an AV receiver to have lots of channels to test his ultimate tri-amped speaker when he builds it later . HE is just starting out and doesn't seem to have an amp. Personally, I think he should buy an old HAfler or Adcom 100 plus watts/ch amp for less than $200 OR an old monster receiver for $100 from his local Craigs List (craigslist.org) or e-bay (riskier) instead of the AV receiver, but he gets to choose- its his money.
I think he also want something unique - not just copying a design from a website such as Parts Express.
So, by building the BBBIB he will get: unique, big box, loud bass, low price- and he isn't directly competing with his arch enemy- pretty clever.
Then he will save to get the speaker of his dreams. Who knows? THAT might turn out to include 4 18" drivers in BIB boxes next to what he is now building...
😀
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