Punkrockr,
That's the idea, you can talk about other ideas here without confusing the construction discussion on the BBBIB thread. My assumption is that you are going to make the BBBIB design, and it is hard to discuss the construction when people (including yourself) want to also discuss other ideas on this thread.
Have fun!
That's the idea, you can talk about other ideas here without confusing the construction discussion on the BBBIB thread. My assumption is that you are going to make the BBBIB design, and it is hard to discuss the construction when people (including yourself) want to also discuss other ideas on this thread.
Have fun!
punkrokr1701 said:
I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but check this one out:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=290-570
It doesn't look remarkable, but if you had eight of these and had put them into four LAB horns....
You could probably 8 of any one of those drivers in ported boxes. Pound for pound, watt for watt, dollar for dollar... I think that bass horns will give you the most sound. There may be debate about the *best* sound (due to limited horn bandwidth, loss of sensitivity below horn loading, requirement of time delay for main speakers, etc), but I don't think anyone will argue that horns don't create huge SPL.
punkrokr1701 said:
Telex 18"
Dayton Pro 18"
B-52 18-200SL
18 Sound 21
18 Sound 18
Mach 5 MJ-18
RCF 18"
JBL 2245
What you need to do for an idea of what those drivers can push is to find the X-max and the Sd. Sd is the effective surface area. You can assume that the 18" pro divers will all have the same Sd, more or less.
If you multiply the Xmax by the Sd you will see how much air they can move.
Then you want to look at power ratings and sensitivity. Every 3dB lower the sensitivity, you'll need 2X more power to get the same volume. Power ratings will give you an idea of how much power you can push into the driver. Higher is usually better. Too much power and the driver will just not keep up.
There are a lot of other things that count, like power compression, but at least that will get you started.
yeah, I've heard there is no point to one lab horn. The opening is just too small. You have to stack at least 2. Four is perfect!Very diffcult for any direct radiators to keep up - even if you have a lot of them.
Hi,
read Danley's treatise on the Labhorn before you attempt to build it.
He DESIGNED Labhorn to NEED 12 boxes when flown in free space, and only 6 boxes when floor or wall loaded, only 3 boxes for floor and wall loading and 1.5boxes (well two really) when corner loaded.
Tom did a comparison between correctly loaded Labhorns i.e. 6 with floor loading to a wall of stacked and theortically correct vented boxes. He found that vented needed 5 times (I'm not sure of the exact numbers) as many boxes and 10 times the power and many times the weight and volume to match the SPL from the Labhorns.
For a roadie, it is no contest,
for the accountant it is no contest,
for the audience it is sublime.
read Danley's treatise on the Labhorn before you attempt to build it.
He DESIGNED Labhorn to NEED 12 boxes when flown in free space, and only 6 boxes when floor or wall loaded, only 3 boxes for floor and wall loading and 1.5boxes (well two really) when corner loaded.
Tom did a comparison between correctly loaded Labhorns i.e. 6 with floor loading to a wall of stacked and theortically correct vented boxes. He found that vented needed 5 times (I'm not sure of the exact numbers) as many boxes and 10 times the power and many times the weight and volume to match the SPL from the Labhorns.
For a roadie, it is no contest,
for the accountant it is no contest,
for the audience it is sublime.
So , sorry Punkrockr, once again lots of visable 18" drivers isn't the best way to go for lots of good bass sound, but look cool, I'll grant you that...
Labb Horn Link
http://www.prosoundweb.com/lsp/
Labb Horn Link
http://www.prosoundweb.com/lsp/
Variac that is two things I like but the one thing overall I like the have is for the walls to be shakin, I want some thing that will make you feel like your in an earthquake when your in the next room beside it. I love to fell my body shaking to peices , I don't know if that's the same thing as "lot's of good bass" but it's whan I want. O f course I want to be able to blast them to high SPL levels with out it seming like the sub is giving out , I want the bass to overpower everything else from the lowest to the highest SPL levels, of cousre I don't mean ridiculous levels like 150+ db's just enough the amke most people's jaw drop and have them begging to turn it down.
Your BIBS will do that, and going further than that your farther will complain about the whole house cracking up in pieces.... and its no joke my friend 
I agree, the BIB will make some loud bass. Keep in mind that you actually won't see the cone moving that much. That's a good thing, since it means less distortion. It will be loud, I have no doubt.
Also, you want them to ask you to turn it down? I have a few mp3s of bad cover bands that would have people begging for that at ANY volume 😉
Also, you want them to ask you to turn it down? I have a few mp3s of bad cover bands that would have people begging for that at ANY volume 😉
Just wondering, if this single 12" driver makes so much bass with this cabinet would an 18" subwoofer in one of these BIBs be a super powerful bas machine or is there some kinda rule or formula that doesn't allow that?
punkrokr1701 said:
I think it's allowed - just that it gets BIG. Remember Scottmoose says minumum 3X the Vas- more is better.
Go look at the Vas of some of those 18s you like. Figure out what 3-5x that is gonna be. 😱 Lower FS is also going to mean a longer line, so a taller box.
Right Scott?
punkrokr1701 said:
Just a detail- the 12" making so much bass (the lab horn) isn't a BIB. The 12" in BIB they're putting together for your project will have tons of bass for home use, but kind of counts on your ceiling being there to push all the sound toward you. They probably wouldn't work the same in a gymnasium with a 30 foot ceiling.
If you search for threads describing bass horns, including the forum dedicated to LAB horns, I think you'll find an answer for what it would be like to horn load an 18. I'm sorry, but I don't know for sure. I'm with Pano on that one; I assume the horn would just be large beyond the point of fitting in your room.
Did you see the Royal Device subwoofer? http://www.royaldevice.com/custom.htm
That's what kind of huge I think we're talking about with 18" woofers.
One of the cool things about this type of horn is that the front of the driver is exposed. That way, as I'm sure you understand, we can get the midrange from the front of the driver, and even some high frequencies. So, at the price you gave us, we had to use that 12" with whizzer cone we used in order to handle the full range of sound. An 18" isn't going to give you good midrange! As I said, I know you understand this, and that you will get a LOT of bass from the 12.
Apparently you can use an 18" driver, but you would have to use a low pass filter (half a crossover) to cut off the frequencies above bass, so they wouldn't come out the front, since they won't sound very good. For a given low frequency the length (height) of the cabinet shouldn't change too much. Since you don't need the sound from the front, it would be more correctly positioned , not sure if that's lower or higher than it is now...
Do the math on the area required for the cross section of the cabinet! That would be pretty interesting to find out. Mention it here if you do.
With this design you still get to look at your driver though, which is a plus, but there are other horn designs which also work, but the driver is hidden inside.
For a transmission line to get super Low bass, check this out: http://www.passdiy.com/speakers.htm
scroll down to "El Pipe-O"
Apparently you can use an 18" driver, but you would have to use a low pass filter (half a crossover) to cut off the frequencies above bass, so they wouldn't come out the front, since they won't sound very good. For a given low frequency the length (height) of the cabinet shouldn't change too much. Since you don't need the sound from the front, it would be more correctly positioned , not sure if that's lower or higher than it is now...
Do the math on the area required for the cross section of the cabinet! That would be pretty interesting to find out. Mention it here if you do.
With this design you still get to look at your driver though, which is a plus, but there are other horn designs which also work, but the driver is hidden inside.
For a transmission line to get super Low bass, check this out: http://www.passdiy.com/speakers.htm
scroll down to "El Pipe-O"
Just to clarify Joe's post which he posted while I was writing mine above,
There is the 12" driver BIB which we are making which makes a LOT of bass and works in a house or other room with a not too tall ceiling, and in a corner preferably because it does use the walls and ceiling to extend the horn.
Then there is the 12" Labhorn, which puts out HUGE bass for Concerts and such. That design doesn't require any particular room, it usually is in an auditorium or outdoors. Because it doesn't use the walls and ceiling, you have to stack at least 2 and sometimes many more in order to make the horn mouth big enough fo them to them work as was mentioned in another post. I certainly hope you have checked out the link to them and Googled them because you will be interested I would think. They are so big that with 2 in your room, I don't think you would be able to fit in a very big bed!
There is the 12" driver BIB which we are making which makes a LOT of bass and works in a house or other room with a not too tall ceiling, and in a corner preferably because it does use the walls and ceiling to extend the horn.
Then there is the 12" Labhorn, which puts out HUGE bass for Concerts and such. That design doesn't require any particular room, it usually is in an auditorium or outdoors. Because it doesn't use the walls and ceiling, you have to stack at least 2 and sometimes many more in order to make the horn mouth big enough fo them to them work as was mentioned in another post. I certainly hope you have checked out the link to them and Googled them because you will be interested I would think. They are so big that with 2 in your room, I don't think you would be able to fit in a very big bed!
Hi,
Because it uses walls and ceiling (or floor) you have to stack 2 or use one with a mouth extender to expand the mouth area by an extra 50% and then load into the corner.
Your statement becomes:
Because it doesn't use the walls and ceiling, you have to stack twelve Labhorns. see post705.
that is plain wrong.
Because it uses walls and ceiling (or floor) you have to stack 2 or use one with a mouth extender to expand the mouth area by an extra 50% and then load into the corner.
Your statement becomes:
Because it doesn't use the walls and ceiling, you have to stack twelve Labhorns. see post705.
I was plain wrong 🙁
Of course, depending on how many walls one has. one needs more or less Basshorns. That was the point of the earlier post about the different number of basshorns required for different situations.
I just wrote waaay too fast.
Of course, depending on how many walls one has. one needs more or less Basshorns. That was the point of the earlier post about the different number of basshorns required for different situations.
I just wrote waaay too fast.
I was scanning through Best Buy checking out some of their sound systems. I noticed there was three main exhibits. One with all Klipsch equipment, one with all JBL, and one with all Yamaha.
So I was fiddle farting around with the Klipsch system for a while tryin to get the push button pad to work and trying to get the large subwoofer box going. Finally I heard a small, faint beat as I tested some tunes through the system. Thinking the store wouldn't mind seeming as I had left the car audio exhibit half way across the store beating hard as I realized just what a seeminly "small" 12" car sub could do I turned the gain on the Klipsch KSW-12 and when I played the some of the test songs programed into the reciever at about 1/3 volume I was amzed to see that the display rack holding the smaler Klipsch speakers was rattling badly. Half knowing I'd get in trouble I couldn't resist but blast it and when I did I thought the display rack was gonna collapse so half scared it would and I would have to pay for it I turned it down. WOW! That was all I could say. I spent the next few hours thinking about that sub and how I'm not realizing exactly what I'm getting into with 18" woofers and all that.
So all I can say is if that Klipsch was just a small taste of what a quality 18" subwoofer would do then I'm ready to stop making bigger and crazier designs.
That Klipsch made me smile for the next day or so.😀
So I was fiddle farting around with the Klipsch system for a while tryin to get the push button pad to work and trying to get the large subwoofer box going. Finally I heard a small, faint beat as I tested some tunes through the system. Thinking the store wouldn't mind seeming as I had left the car audio exhibit half way across the store beating hard as I realized just what a seeminly "small" 12" car sub could do I turned the gain on the Klipsch KSW-12 and when I played the some of the test songs programed into the reciever at about 1/3 volume I was amzed to see that the display rack holding the smaler Klipsch speakers was rattling badly. Half knowing I'd get in trouble I couldn't resist but blast it and when I did I thought the display rack was gonna collapse so half scared it would and I would have to pay for it I turned it down. WOW! That was all I could say. I spent the next few hours thinking about that sub and how I'm not realizing exactly what I'm getting into with 18" woofers and all that.
So all I can say is if that Klipsch was just a small taste of what a quality 18" subwoofer would do then I'm ready to stop making bigger and crazier designs.
That Klipsch made me smile for the next day or so.😀
I'm glad to hear it!!
There's really no need build the space shuttle to get sound that's (I didn't mean this as a pun... but what the heck) out of this world. I talked about horns, line arrays, and other things- but there's really not need. Most consumer speakers really can't put out that much sound- that's just how it goes.
I really suggest that you get yourself to a concert and see how close you can get to the front, where the speakers are. THAT's what kind of loud we've been talking about. You're BIB's (in the other thread) won't get as loud as the front row of a rock concert, but most people's speakers won't. They will probably get just as loud as those Klipsch speakers. They might not go quite as low, and you'll need a decent amp (I recommend a 200-250 watt amp), but they will be wicked loud.
I say that they won't go quite as low, and people might argue with me- but really... you can only get so much out of a 12" driver with 3 mm xmax. When you get tired of these, or want to do some serious home theater, then just add a sub.
Anyway, how's it going with that project? Dad's still on board?
There's really no need build the space shuttle to get sound that's (I didn't mean this as a pun... but what the heck) out of this world. I talked about horns, line arrays, and other things- but there's really not need. Most consumer speakers really can't put out that much sound- that's just how it goes.
I really suggest that you get yourself to a concert and see how close you can get to the front, where the speakers are. THAT's what kind of loud we've been talking about. You're BIB's (in the other thread) won't get as loud as the front row of a rock concert, but most people's speakers won't. They will probably get just as loud as those Klipsch speakers. They might not go quite as low, and you'll need a decent amp (I recommend a 200-250 watt amp), but they will be wicked loud.
I say that they won't go quite as low, and people might argue with me- but really... you can only get so much out of a 12" driver with 3 mm xmax. When you get tired of these, or want to do some serious home theater, then just add a sub.
Anyway, how's it going with that project? Dad's still on board?
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