erroneous?
Andrew T , Sreten et al:
Let's not get involved in a semantics arguement. Both of you may have valid points, but they need not be as opposite as it seems your individual viewpoints are.
Personally, I agree with Sreten regarding altering the signal , and listening to what the producers (and artists if their record labels allow them to be involved in the production of their recordings). The idea of maintaining the intent of the producers is what we should strive for. If it sucks, well , blame the producer , the artist and the record label. Sins of omission are much easier to take, rather than sins of commision, to paraphrase some (Harry Pearson et al @ TAS?).
If ultimately the ability to increase the relative output of a particular portion of the audio frequency , via processors and "too much" of whatever attribute or frequency range beyond the producers intent, then I think this is treading on the edge of a razor.
Unfortunately some recordings make it out to the public with the latter in mind, equalizing during production to fullfill some requirement of the intended audience's equipment, etc.
As far as punk's enthusiasm, I agree AndrewT, no none should quell it. But, it also has to be tempered by some level of common sense and direction.
That's all folks, off to sleep I go..
Andrew T , Sreten et al:
Let's not get involved in a semantics arguement. Both of you may have valid points, but they need not be as opposite as it seems your individual viewpoints are.
Personally, I agree with Sreten regarding altering the signal , and listening to what the producers (and artists if their record labels allow them to be involved in the production of their recordings). The idea of maintaining the intent of the producers is what we should strive for. If it sucks, well , blame the producer , the artist and the record label. Sins of omission are much easier to take, rather than sins of commision, to paraphrase some (Harry Pearson et al @ TAS?).
If ultimately the ability to increase the relative output of a particular portion of the audio frequency , via processors and "too much" of whatever attribute or frequency range beyond the producers intent, then I think this is treading on the edge of a razor.
Unfortunately some recordings make it out to the public with the latter in mind, equalizing during production to fullfill some requirement of the intended audience's equipment, etc.
As far as punk's enthusiasm, I agree AndrewT, no none should quell it. But, it also has to be tempered by some level of common sense and direction.
That's all folks, off to sleep I go..
AndrewT said:
Huh ?
Who said I regard PKRRs "requirements" as valid ? They are not.
They are contradictory and illustrate naivete and wishful thinking.
🙂/sreten.
If your comments were addressed to AndrewT, then please disregard the next paragraph.
sreten, I did not suggest that you stated Punkrokr's requirements as valid. Quite the contrary, I (think) you suggested just the opposite. More isn't better, it's just more--accuracy some how seems to be quantified as "better', which is simply just not the case. This is why my humble little system still only has smallish bookshelf speakers and no subs--If I can't have good quality extended low frequencies, then I don't want them. To this date I have no subs (but one day soon, may). And I agree with you completely:
I also agree with you that punkr should consider s classic design, or rebuild a classic speaker (or even a good design). Design is great , and so too is punkr's enthusiasm...BUT he is a long way forom understanding the concepts. Don't wanna throw any water on the ethusiasm, just want to encourage him in a manner that will accomplish 2 things:
1) Whatever he ends up doing, he will have the "starting point" to add to--no throw away components or enclosures. I think I had suggested Tannoy or Klipsch style corner horns earlier in the thread.
2) If he builds good enclosures, they will be saleable if he really gets a hankering to go out on a limb and initiate a design on his own.
Sreten, I hope this clarifies the point I was trying to make. This thread has gotten so out of hand, I only come back to it every few days to see how it's been twisted.
Happy listening to all.
It's raining, and I've been reading through the last half, or so, of this thread. I have no idea how the beginning went...I just don't have that kind of time. Punk is probably at least 20 years younger than I am, and at that age FAR more patient than I was. Patience is a good thing, though, when seeking information.
Listening to music, building things for fun, and having a little competition with your friends is entertainment. For someone to say or imply that someone else is incorrect, because they don't like a particular thing makes about as much sense as someone thinking I'm a nut for not liking redheads. There are a lot of posts along the lines of "dude, no, that's not what you want, look at this redhead right here"...some of which if you print and hold up to the light, the letters all line up.
From what I can tell, Punk wants to build a couple of speakers that are loud, are capable of being clean and accurate (or whatever they call it these days), and that can handle having the bass throttled up to the point that it starts to loosen the framing of the house. That seems like a reasonable thing to me! Any respectable teenage male of my generation would've wanted the same thing - except most wouldn't care how clean it was, and few would want to build it themselves. He has the drivers picked out, that don't seem unreasonable from the discussion, and a big leg up on the carpentry.
I'd like to see this thing move forward! Dam* the torpedoes!
Listening to music, building things for fun, and having a little competition with your friends is entertainment. For someone to say or imply that someone else is incorrect, because they don't like a particular thing makes about as much sense as someone thinking I'm a nut for not liking redheads. There are a lot of posts along the lines of "dude, no, that's not what you want, look at this redhead right here"...some of which if you print and hold up to the light, the letters all line up.
From what I can tell, Punk wants to build a couple of speakers that are loud, are capable of being clean and accurate (or whatever they call it these days), and that can handle having the bass throttled up to the point that it starts to loosen the framing of the house. That seems like a reasonable thing to me! Any respectable teenage male of my generation would've wanted the same thing - except most wouldn't care how clean it was, and few would want to build it themselves. He has the drivers picked out, that don't seem unreasonable from the discussion, and a big leg up on the carpentry.
I'd like to see this thing move forward! Dam* the torpedoes!
RandomTom said:
hey randomtom, thanks for that little bit of encouragement.
I can understand that certain people have their views and would prefer to have me do things a certain way. Well, instead of fight the like I did for about the first 15 to 20 pages or so I've learned just to read what they have to say and incorporate into what is being said and thought out by everyone else.
Anyways, so we've got the driver selection down. OK, good.
Now it's passive for the tweeter and active for the woofers. But someone posted passive and active for the mid it looked something like this "...passive for the mid/tweeter and active for the mid/woofer..." what exactly does that mean?
Or something like that.
And earlier someone said that when I run some good amps through these that I'd notice the mid would be running out of steam. So what would they have me do? buy a more expensive mid that would keep up? If so what would I buy?
Well, now on with the show!
the enclosures. The mid needs a 1ft^3 enclosure right? Then I'd put the woofers each in something like a 8ft^3 enclosure. Well, it was said that the woofer would be happy with more room so could have say a 9 or 10ft^3 ported enclosure and still be on track?
As soon as I can get sure sizes on these boxes I'll do my calculations.
As for WinUSD, I got it working but the Dayton Pro 18" woofer isn't in the database and I'm having trouble inputting all the specs, could I get a little assistance with that?
and as for all you doubters when I can afford it I will build my own set of whatever the name of those speakers are that Cal uses. Just not right now.
Oh come on guys. Lighten up! Get off your Hi-Fi high horses, take off your lily-white purist’s togs, and get down here in the dirt and have some fun!
😀 Too many of you seem to be forgetting what this is all about – FUN. 😀
Would Punkrokr be better off to clone a good, existing design or go with a kit? Yes.
Is an established design the best path for him to follow? Yes . Is an established design what he wants to build and spend his money on? No. Is this just a demented adolescent fantasy? Maybe. Does this project really have a chance of getting built? Maybe, just maybe. But not if we all thumb our collective Hi-Fi nose at it.
It’s easy to jump in at page 50 and declare the whole thing a joke. But there are a few of us who have stuck it out, hashed it out, and come up with a workable design. Is it the world’s greatest speaker? Not by a long shot. Will it work, be bass heavy and sound decent? Most likely. Has Punkrokr been warned that this is a risky path, that it could fail? Yes.
Most of the DIYers here have a purist approach, and that’s good. That is certainly what I like and want in a speaker – that’s why the A7 is my favorite. I build 7 watt amps, for Pete’s sake! But we live in a different world than most. Most people on this planet just want loud speakers that thump. No concept of faithfully reproducing the recorded signal. Most people DO see the speaker as a sort of musical instrument. The speaker (and the rest of the chain) allows them to make the music sound the way they want it to sound. Whenever I’ve put together a nice balanced speaker what is the reaction? “Hey that sounds good –can you crank up the bass?” Haven’t you guys ever heard a modern power car stereo? Is that Hi-Fi? Not on your life. That’s not the point.
Unfortunately for Punkrokr, he fell into a forum where sound quality is the most cherished factor. That isn’t what he wants. He comes from a completely different point of view – the world of SPL competitions, maximum excursions, and overblown bass. That’s his reference. Up to this point we have done a pretty good job of pointing him down a path that will give him the big drivers and big bass that he craves, while having a chance of sounding halfway decent. Balanced Hi-Fi? NO. But – please – remember. That is not what he wants. He would not be happy with a balanced Hi-Fi system. Andrew-T is right on the mark with his comments
So.
Punkrokr wants an original design that has big drivers and big bass. We’ve given him that.
Punkrokr will not listen to reason and follow an established design. So be it, that’s his loss.
Punkrokr does not care about “High Fidelity”. He does want it to “sound good”, but his frame of reference is very different from ours.
The 1812 system we’ve hashed out in these few hundred pages will give him what he wants, in spades. It ain’t gonna be the most elegant system ever built, but it WILL be loads of fun. Remember fun? And it will rattle his windows with just a few watts
To quote Andrew-T again
So come on! Get off those Hi-Fi high horses and get dirty down here with the people. We promise not to tell anyone back at the Hi-Fi Palace. 😉
EDIT:
RandomTom posted while I was writing. All I can say is "RIGHT ON!" He gets it.
😀 Too many of you seem to be forgetting what this is all about – FUN. 😀
Would Punkrokr be better off to clone a good, existing design or go with a kit? Yes.
Is an established design the best path for him to follow? Yes . Is an established design what he wants to build and spend his money on? No. Is this just a demented adolescent fantasy? Maybe. Does this project really have a chance of getting built? Maybe, just maybe. But not if we all thumb our collective Hi-Fi nose at it.
It’s easy to jump in at page 50 and declare the whole thing a joke. But there are a few of us who have stuck it out, hashed it out, and come up with a workable design. Is it the world’s greatest speaker? Not by a long shot. Will it work, be bass heavy and sound decent? Most likely. Has Punkrokr been warned that this is a risky path, that it could fail? Yes.
Most of the DIYers here have a purist approach, and that’s good. That is certainly what I like and want in a speaker – that’s why the A7 is my favorite. I build 7 watt amps, for Pete’s sake! But we live in a different world than most. Most people on this planet just want loud speakers that thump. No concept of faithfully reproducing the recorded signal. Most people DO see the speaker as a sort of musical instrument. The speaker (and the rest of the chain) allows them to make the music sound the way they want it to sound. Whenever I’ve put together a nice balanced speaker what is the reaction? “Hey that sounds good –can you crank up the bass?” Haven’t you guys ever heard a modern power car stereo? Is that Hi-Fi? Not on your life. That’s not the point.
Unfortunately for Punkrokr, he fell into a forum where sound quality is the most cherished factor. That isn’t what he wants. He comes from a completely different point of view – the world of SPL competitions, maximum excursions, and overblown bass. That’s his reference. Up to this point we have done a pretty good job of pointing him down a path that will give him the big drivers and big bass that he craves, while having a chance of sounding halfway decent. Balanced Hi-Fi? NO. But – please – remember. That is not what he wants. He would not be happy with a balanced Hi-Fi system. Andrew-T is right on the mark with his comments
That is what it is all about.
So.
Punkrokr wants an original design that has big drivers and big bass. We’ve given him that.
Punkrokr will not listen to reason and follow an established design. So be it, that’s his loss.
Punkrokr does not care about “High Fidelity”. He does want it to “sound good”, but his frame of reference is very different from ours.
The 1812 system we’ve hashed out in these few hundred pages will give him what he wants, in spades. It ain’t gonna be the most elegant system ever built, but it WILL be loads of fun. Remember fun? And it will rattle his windows with just a few watts
To quote Andrew-T again
Well put!
So come on! Get off those Hi-Fi high horses and get dirty down here with the people. We promise not to tell anyone back at the Hi-Fi Palace. 😉
EDIT:
RandomTom posted while I was writing. All I can say is "RIGHT ON!" He gets it.
Hey Punkrokr.
I don't know which version of WINISD you are using, but I have uploaded the database file for the Dayton 18 in formats for both WinISD Pro and Beta.
The database files are in a winzip file. When you unzip it you will find two files:
Dayton PF-460-8 18.dri
Dayton PF-460-8 18.wdr
The ".dri" file os for WinISP Beta. The ".wdr" file is for WinISD Pro.
Choose the one you need and unzip it to the "drivers" folder inside the WinISD program folder. WinISD will be found in Windows/programs/WinISD or wherever you install your programs.
Once that database file in the folder, you can choose it from the list. In Beta, there are two lists, "Program Database" and "Own Drivers". It will be in Own Drivers. In Pro there is only one list.
You will be better off for now with WinISD Beta, especially since it lets you calculate your box dimensions.
Let us know if you get it to work.
An 8 or 9 cubic foot box will work fine for you. But remember, you need on for EACH driver! So you can go smaller if you need to. No need for you to go bigger.
I don't know which version of WINISD you are using, but I have uploaded the database file for the Dayton 18 in formats for both WinISD Pro and Beta.
The database files are in a winzip file. When you unzip it you will find two files:
Dayton PF-460-8 18.dri
Dayton PF-460-8 18.wdr
The ".dri" file os for WinISP Beta. The ".wdr" file is for WinISD Pro.
Choose the one you need and unzip it to the "drivers" folder inside the WinISD program folder. WinISD will be found in Windows/programs/WinISD or wherever you install your programs.
Once that database file in the folder, you can choose it from the list. In Beta, there are two lists, "Program Database" and "Own Drivers". It will be in Own Drivers. In Pro there is only one list.
You will be better off for now with WinISD Beta, especially since it lets you calculate your box dimensions.
Let us know if you get it to work.
An 8 or 9 cubic foot box will work fine for you. But remember, you need on for EACH driver! So you can go smaller if you need to. No need for you to go bigger.
Active crossover
Ok, I might have an active crossover here:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=245-862
It's a 24 db/octave crossover, variable from 250 hz to 6 khz. It accepts balanced and unbalanced inputs, and has unbalanced outputs. In other words, I think it should work with home audio gear.
What I don't like about it is that it's signal to noise ratio is only 95 db. I'd like to see higher than that to avoid hum and buzz when he's not playing any music. Also, your optiumum crossover between the 18s and the 12 might be somewhat below 250 hz. I would think you'd be able to cross all the way up to 500 hz without making the 18s sound too horrible, but I just don't know.
Another thing that I do like about this crossover is that it has a 30 hz low cut that you can turn on when you want to play at top volume. Most of the bass that you feel in your chest is between 50 and 300 hz. If you look at the spectrum of a kick drum, you'll see a large spike (the initial impact) in the 150-300 hz area, with a sustained note that's generally 40-80 hz, tending toward the high end.
This crossover also has a subwoofer output. That could be useful later... but if you ever build a sub that can keep up with these speakers, you'll be able to afford an upgrade to the crossover.
Ok, I might have an active crossover here:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=245-862
It's a 24 db/octave crossover, variable from 250 hz to 6 khz. It accepts balanced and unbalanced inputs, and has unbalanced outputs. In other words, I think it should work with home audio gear.
What I don't like about it is that it's signal to noise ratio is only 95 db. I'd like to see higher than that to avoid hum and buzz when he's not playing any music. Also, your optiumum crossover between the 18s and the 12 might be somewhat below 250 hz. I would think you'd be able to cross all the way up to 500 hz without making the 18s sound too horrible, but I just don't know.
Another thing that I do like about this crossover is that it has a 30 hz low cut that you can turn on when you want to play at top volume. Most of the bass that you feel in your chest is between 50 and 300 hz. If you look at the spectrum of a kick drum, you'll see a large spike (the initial impact) in the 150-300 hz area, with a sustained note that's generally 40-80 hz, tending toward the high end.
This crossover also has a subwoofer output. That could be useful later... but if you ever build a sub that can keep up with these speakers, you'll be able to afford an upgrade to the crossover.
Pano,
I got the WinUSD to workI accidently downloaded both pro and beta, but I'll use beta for now.
evreytime I try tp unzip that document it freezes up and shows up as not responding, I'm no hacker but I can try to fix it really quick.
And just so you guys know, I am aware of the Hi-Fi world but like pano said I live in the SPL competition, booming subwoofer world so I've have different views than others here. But that doesnt mean I don't except the idea of Hi-Fi, actually my grandpa has a friend who is an Hi-Fi audiophile and I was amazed with some of the stuff that he has and how it sounds. I may not seem like it but I can sit down and listen to a Hi-Fi system and admire it's sound quality without complaining about how loud it should go or how much bass it lacks.
Simply said I also look at speakers as an instrument just one more like my bass guitar, not the world's best, but loud, full of bass and as pano would put it fun.
I appreciate everyone here and for their help.
I got the WinUSD to workI accidently downloaded both pro and beta, but I'll use beta for now.
evreytime I try tp unzip that document it freezes up and shows up as not responding, I'm no hacker but I can try to fix it really quick.
And just so you guys know, I am aware of the Hi-Fi world but like pano said I live in the SPL competition, booming subwoofer world so I've have different views than others here. But that doesnt mean I don't except the idea of Hi-Fi, actually my grandpa has a friend who is an Hi-Fi audiophile and I was amazed with some of the stuff that he has and how it sounds. I may not seem like it but I can sit down and listen to a Hi-Fi system and admire it's sound quality without complaining about how loud it should go or how much bass it lacks.
Simply said I also look at speakers as an instrument just one more like my bass guitar, not the world's best, but loud, full of bass and as pano would put it fun.
I appreciate everyone here and for their help.
Hey Punkrokr,
I'll email you the file for WinISD Beta. I don't know why the Zip file didn't work. If all else fails, you'll have to put in the info by hand.
For all you Hi-Fi nutz out there who are agast at this crazy system, I feel your pain - but - don't forget the whole point of the system.
Please go back and read post number 524 by RandomTom. He explains it better than ayone else has. And I thank him for that.
I'll email you the file for WinISD Beta. I don't know why the Zip file didn't work. If all else fails, you'll have to put in the info by hand.
For all you Hi-Fi nutz out there who are agast at this crazy system, I feel your pain - but - don't forget the whole point of the system.
Please go back and read post number 524 by RandomTom. He explains it better than ayone else has. And I thank him for that.
OK for all you audiophiles who are against this here's somwthing that might help a little bit.
Motana WAS
anyone here heard of it? just thought it be interesting to bring into this forum cause it resembles in some fashion what I'm building, 6 feet tall, weighs a ton and has a s*** load of speakers in it. I love it!
Of couse it is $54,000 a speaker
Motana WAS
anyone here heard of it? just thought it be interesting to bring into this forum cause it resembles in some fashion what I'm building, 6 feet tall, weighs a ton and has a s*** load of speakers in it. I love it!
Of couse it is $54,000 a speaker
MONTANA....looking at drivers....dome tweeter....double 4" mid....double 7"mid....
Dont think that its what you are building
Its a totally different kind of beast....as I recall I presented you a similar but simplified approach with 6" mids.....which you didnt like at all
But that does NOT mean Im against your project.....just think there still are some serious unadressed problems....
and maybe I think double 18" is a bit of waste of money....that could be used better elsewhere....double 12" makes more sense if want to ad subs later
But its your game and money....I just hope you get the most out of it
Dont think that its what you are building
Its a totally different kind of beast....as I recall I presented you a similar but simplified approach with 6" mids.....which you didnt like at all
But that does NOT mean Im against your project.....just think there still are some serious unadressed problems....
and maybe I think double 18" is a bit of waste of money....that could be used better elsewhere....double 12" makes more sense if want to ad subs later
But its your game and money....I just hope you get the most out of it
My suggestion would now be like this.....with build in sub
18" woofer, sub
12" woofer...Eminence PRO series
6" x 2 mids, Alpha 6A
Supertweeter, Selenium
You have been recommended an PE active crossover which have sub out....you will only need amp
Crossover point active 1000hz, passive 3-5 khz
Later it could also be made active 4-way
18" woofer, sub
12" woofer...Eminence PRO series
6" x 2 mids, Alpha 6A
Supertweeter, Selenium
You have been recommended an PE active crossover which have sub out....you will only need amp
Crossover point active 1000hz, passive 3-5 khz
Later it could also be made active 4-way
Attachments
punkrokr1701 said:OK for all you audiophiles who are against this here's somwthing that might help a little bit.
Motana WAS
....cause it resembles in some fashion what I'm building, 6 feet tall, weighs a ton and has a s*** load of speakers in it. I love it!.....
Of couse it is $54,000 a speaker
Hi,
Yes it visually might resemble the scale of what you are building
but its design premises are completely different, the sound that
it likely produces does not remotely resemble what you're building.
I'm not on a high horse, simply its that the actual sound quality
has been put on the back burner whilst everyone gets excited
about SPL figures, sensitivity figures and 2 x 18" bass drivers.
Driver layouts are being slung about like there's no tomorrow as
though somehow some layout will finally be visually appeasing.
Form follows function, not the other way round, just because it
looks like it will do the business doesn't mean it will, it won't.
People encouraging PKRR seem to have quietly ignored anything
he has said he wants from and the intended use for the speakers
that doesn't suit building some overgrown montrosity.
Its PKRRs time, money and effort that allegedly is going to go into
these speakers, I know the way it is going he will be dissapointed.
He may think they look great, but the sound.... call that fun ?
🙂/sreten.
The waveguide is going to have a larger rectangular footprint than that little dot on your drawing.
The Montana is one of those big, heavy hifi speakers- but the 1812 (is that what we're calling it now?) will have bigger balls.
Here's what I'm saying:
-Two 18" woofers will have much more surface area than a 15 and a 12
-A 12" mid will have a little more surface area than two 7s and two 4s.
-A horn loaded pro tweeter will have better SPL capability than their (admittedly large) dome tweeter.
-Stick with the 18" woofer, 12" mid, and waveguide compression driver.
I don't care if they're magic drivers; the 1812 is going to have better SPL capability than the Montana. I'm not claiming that the 1812 will sound any better below the maximum SPL; but I know which one I'd pick for a PA.
The Montana is one of those big, heavy hifi speakers- but the 1812 (is that what we're calling it now?) will have bigger balls.
Here's what I'm saying:
-Two 18" woofers will have much more surface area than a 15 and a 12
-A 12" mid will have a little more surface area than two 7s and two 4s.
-A horn loaded pro tweeter will have better SPL capability than their (admittedly large) dome tweeter.
-Stick with the 18" woofer, 12" mid, and waveguide compression driver.
I don't care if they're magic drivers; the 1812 is going to have better SPL capability than the Montana. I'm not claiming that the 1812 will sound any better below the maximum SPL; but I know which one I'd pick for a PA.
I do think Punk has chosen the right path for him...ordinary hifi kits wont satisfy him...but looking at what he is aiming at I think he is not there yet
There are many, many ways of doing things along his chosen path....and none of them will be perfect.... the trouble of very big and efficient speakers
For sure, standard active crossovers are not perfect either....but I am sure it will be a hobby of Punk for years to come...I am sure some day he will have loads of different amps
There are many, many ways of doing things along his chosen path....and none of them will be perfect.... the trouble of very big and efficient speakers
For sure, standard active crossovers are not perfect either....but I am sure it will be a hobby of Punk for years to come...I am sure some day he will have loads of different amps
joe carrow said:
Hi,
fine, but which would you pick for home use with occasional parties ?
🙂/sreten.
Home use with occasional parties? It depends on the budget.
I built a Modula MT (Dayton Reference Series 2-way with 7" woofer and dome tweeter), and I'm quite happy with that to as loud as I could reasonably want in my apartment. A single sealed 15" or ported 12" subwoofer would let me get plenty loud enough for the kinds of parties I'm likely to have, and would be great for home theater.
If I was still having the kinds of parties I had in college, I believe a Modula MTM with stereo 15" subs would be just fine. Those will approach 115 db at 1 m, with very nice sound quality. That's not quite as loud as the JBL TR225's we used in the fraternity house, but I don't think we ever really had to turn those up to 11.
If budget wasn't an issue and I had my own house, I'd probably build something like the Orions, and use an infinite baffle subwoofer with eight 15" Dayton Reference subwoofers.
I think that by the time you spend much over $1,000 you really need to start looking past traditional box speakers, and start looking at transmission lines, dipoles, horns, and that kind of thing.
If I was gigging (say, using these to run an electronic drum set), I'd be looking for light weight, modularity, and higher efficiency than what he's going for.
Do you think the 18" woofer and 12" mid will meet his needs?
I built a Modula MT (Dayton Reference Series 2-way with 7" woofer and dome tweeter), and I'm quite happy with that to as loud as I could reasonably want in my apartment. A single sealed 15" or ported 12" subwoofer would let me get plenty loud enough for the kinds of parties I'm likely to have, and would be great for home theater.
If I was still having the kinds of parties I had in college, I believe a Modula MTM with stereo 15" subs would be just fine. Those will approach 115 db at 1 m, with very nice sound quality. That's not quite as loud as the JBL TR225's we used in the fraternity house, but I don't think we ever really had to turn those up to 11.
If budget wasn't an issue and I had my own house, I'd probably build something like the Orions, and use an infinite baffle subwoofer with eight 15" Dayton Reference subwoofers.
I think that by the time you spend much over $1,000 you really need to start looking past traditional box speakers, and start looking at transmission lines, dipoles, horns, and that kind of thing.
If I was gigging (say, using these to run an electronic drum set), I'd be looking for light weight, modularity, and higher efficiency than what he's going for.
Do you think the 18" woofer and 12" mid will meet his needs?
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