Punk will newer have an ugly A7 or anything small for that matter
How about those 105db 12" in A7
How about those 105db 12" in A7
There goes Crazy Cal again with his A7s. 🙂
I'm all for the A7s - if only we could find a mid range solution in budget. Anyone got one?
Dude - think about it! You're using a pro 12 as your MID. Most of those CVs and others are using 12s as the woofer. You've got DOUBLE 18s. You can put insane amounts of power behind that, if you have to.
You're also going to have to put insane amounts of muscle behind these things to move them around.
I still have a bum shoulder from stupid roady work in the summer of '87. Wheels. Put on lots of wheels and handles.
I'm all for the A7s - if only we could find a mid range solution in budget. Anyone got one?
Variac said:
Dude - think about it! You're using a pro 12 as your MID. Most of those CVs and others are using 12s as the woofer. You've got DOUBLE 18s. You can put insane amounts of power behind that, if you have to.
You're also going to have to put insane amounts of muscle behind these things to move them around.
I still have a bum shoulder from stupid roady work in the summer of '87. Wheels. Put on lots of wheels and handles.
tinitus said:
I used to have a pair of "Mini A7s" A smaller cabinet scaled to use a 12" driver. Made by University Sound, IIRC. Nothing like its big brother. Nice, but not anywhere as big or loud or good as the true A7.
You're right about the A7, Tinitus, pretty it isn't. Sure sounds good, tho.
Both of you should be ashamed for not recognizing the aged beauty. The new ones give me goose bumps.
I own my own house....I dare not set up those A7....I like my house.....and at the moment friendly neighbours 🙂
BTW....I read of japanese making copy of an old Altec...which I dont know
BTW....I read of japanese making copy of an old Altec...which I dont know
Not to change my driver sekection or anything but juust take a look at these , would they be a good upgrade when the time comes? Or are will they will a dissapointing mess like an overated car subwoofer?
This right here is something that gives me goosebumps...
http://diy.cowanaudio.com/ib.html
This right here is something that gives me goosebumps...
http://diy.cowanaudio.com/ib.html
Hey Cal, on on the South Shore. Hot, Sunny and Dusty here. It's a rain forest on the other side of the island, the windward side.
YES. RCF drivers are very good. Real workhorses of the pro world. The drivers that were about to make my heart stop and guts turn to jelly were RCF.
Didn't EAW buy RCF a few years back?
YES. RCF drivers are very good. Real workhorses of the pro world. The drivers that were about to make my heart stop and guts turn to jelly were RCF.
Didn't EAW buy RCF a few years back?
Wow! That outside sub box really cracked me up. Pretty darn cool. Thanks for that.
You want a really "cool" sub for you rig. Look no further than the FAN WOOFER.
I don't know if you've seen it, but it gets written about a lot.
You want a really "cool" sub for you rig. Look no further than the FAN WOOFER.
I don't know if you've seen it, but it gets written about a lot.
Hey Cal,
No consequences from here- now that we have the drivers fixed for Punkr 😉
When I was a junior in high school (1970) a student would bring a pair of the Voice of the Theater A7's to school every friday, Then after classes put them in the field in front of the school and play Jimi Hendrix at an unbelievable volume. I had never heard anything like it! I mean the speakers were 50 feet away and it was still louder than anything I'd ever heard (I didn't get out much!)
I never forget it - so I guess I'm a fan too!
Clearly our school wasn't close to much housing.
No consequences from here- now that we have the drivers fixed for Punkr 😉
When I was a junior in high school (1970) a student would bring a pair of the Voice of the Theater A7's to school every friday, Then after classes put them in the field in front of the school and play Jimi Hendrix at an unbelievable volume. I had never heard anything like it! I mean the speakers were 50 feet away and it was still louder than anything I'd ever heard (I didn't get out much!)
I never forget it - so I guess I'm a fan too!
Clearly our school wasn't close to much housing.
and Just so you guys know the reason I want to use the 12" mid is so that I can't get the full potential oout of the woofers and the tweeter. So like someone posted earlier the 12" mid is there let it do it's job and let the woofers do theirs, to create monsterous bass.
This is Off Topic, but I'll make it my last oftop post.
If I used this for woofers would it not be a high excursion driver to easily match up with the CV CLS 215's?
Hey, hey, hey! Read the last post here.
What is that guy trying to say?
That's all the 50 pages of posts we've been going over are useless.
someone tell what's going on here? I'm really baffled now.
If I used this for woofers would it not be a high excursion driver to easily match up with the CV CLS 215's?
Hey, hey, hey! Read the last post here.
What is that guy trying to say?
That's all the 50 pages of posts we've been going over are useless.
someone tell what's going on here? I'm really baffled now.
That Mach 5 woofer would need at least 2X more power to play as loud as your Dayton 18s. If you're running 250 watts into your Daytons to get insane levels, the Mach 5 would need at least 500 watts. I doubt it would sound as good. Doesn't look very well made. But at that low price, what do you want? That's why pros use pro woofers.
As for the Tuba subs, Bill is a frequent poster here (or was). His designs are well liked. They are more complicated to build than a normal box, tho. A few days ago I was going to suggest that you start with one 18 per side then build the tubas if you felt you needed more, but you seemed to be set on 4x18s to start. Remember, you won't see the drivers n the tuba. But you sure will hear them.
Also, take a look that crazy outside sub box again. That's two 18s facing out. As you can tell, it's big. Bigger than you think.
As for the Tuba subs, Bill is a frequent poster here (or was). His designs are well liked. They are more complicated to build than a normal box, tho. A few days ago I was going to suggest that you start with one 18 per side then build the tubas if you felt you needed more, but you seemed to be set on 4x18s to start. Remember, you won't see the drivers n the tuba. But you sure will hear them.
Also, take a look that crazy outside sub box again. That's two 18s facing out. As you can tell, it's big. Bigger than you think.
First, I'm skeptical of the Mach5 woofer. The claimed efficiency isn't that high, and it might not even live up to it.
Next, that guy is trying to point out the importance of maximum efficiency.
The vast majority of the past 50 pages really haven't been that productive. Sorry. I didn't read them all, but it was kind of tough getting a solid set of requirements.
What HipoFutura is talking about is this: For maximum SPL, efficiency is key.
For the most part, a speaker gets 3 decibels louder for each doubling of power. That means it gets 3 db louder at 2 watts, 6 db at 4 watts, 9 at 8, 12 at 16, 15 at 32, 18 at 64, 21 at 128, 24 at 256, 27 at 512.... you get the picture. Call it 30 db of gain at just over 1,000 watts.
This means that if you start out with speakers with 80 db efficiency, you need 1,000 watts to get to 110 db. If you start out with speakers that are 100 db efficient (like some decent horns), you only need about 16 watts to get just as loud.
This rule breaks down as you get closer to the power and volume limits of the speakers. You get something called thermal compression where you get less than 3 db from each extra doubling of power, especially when playing continuously.
If you wanted to absolutely bury anything else, you'd go for an all-horn three-way. This is a lot more design work (you'd want to use an established design; sorry- too hard otherwise), and the woodwork would be a lot harder.
I don't mean to discourage you or try to change your project, but that's how it goes. You want to see a big stack of woofers, so the project described so far is great.
If you can be OK with five 12" woofers per side in various horns, plus a set of tweeter horns, then you wouldn't see any speaker cones. You'd just have enormous sound.
Next, that guy is trying to point out the importance of maximum efficiency.
The vast majority of the past 50 pages really haven't been that productive. Sorry. I didn't read them all, but it was kind of tough getting a solid set of requirements.
What HipoFutura is talking about is this: For maximum SPL, efficiency is key.
For the most part, a speaker gets 3 decibels louder for each doubling of power. That means it gets 3 db louder at 2 watts, 6 db at 4 watts, 9 at 8, 12 at 16, 15 at 32, 18 at 64, 21 at 128, 24 at 256, 27 at 512.... you get the picture. Call it 30 db of gain at just over 1,000 watts.
This means that if you start out with speakers with 80 db efficiency, you need 1,000 watts to get to 110 db. If you start out with speakers that are 100 db efficient (like some decent horns), you only need about 16 watts to get just as loud.
This rule breaks down as you get closer to the power and volume limits of the speakers. You get something called thermal compression where you get less than 3 db from each extra doubling of power, especially when playing continuously.
If you wanted to absolutely bury anything else, you'd go for an all-horn three-way. This is a lot more design work (you'd want to use an established design; sorry- too hard otherwise), and the woodwork would be a lot harder.
I don't mean to discourage you or try to change your project, but that's how it goes. You want to see a big stack of woofers, so the project described so far is great.
If you can be OK with five 12" woofers per side in various horns, plus a set of tweeter horns, then you wouldn't see any speaker cones. You'd just have enormous sound.
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Joined 2002
Thanks Joe - that needed to be explained. Glad you were the one to do it. =)
Lets' say it again. For maximum SPL, efficiency is key.
BTW, I wonder about soggy outdoor woofers, too. He could at least have given them more shelter. Maybe he lives where it never rains....
Lets' say it again. For maximum SPL, efficiency is key.
BTW, I wonder about soggy outdoor woofers, too. He could at least have given them more shelter. Maybe he lives where it never rains....
Maybe there was more of an overhang from his roof... I'd be worried too!
So, maximum efficiency and maximum power handling. Do you know how they do that in concerts? Usually, line arrays. You get 3 db gain from doubling the number of drivers, and 3 db increase in overall SPL capability through doubling of power handling.
If you go to a major concert, you'll see a long column of speakers hung from a rigging. These form a string of speakers called a line array. There's a lot of stuff out there about this if you look.
If I had a budget of $5k and my goal was maximum SPL, I'd build two line arrays with about sixteen 6" drivers per side, and a line of horns next to the line of mids. I'd build them in boxes of whatever size would weigh less than 50 pounds each. These would all be sealed. For the bass, I'd do six lab horns. These would have two 12" woofers per horn, so a total of twelve 12" woofers.
Don't be discouraged that your project won't kill every other speaker in the world- there's always someone bigger, and if someone has more money and really wants to get something that's as big and as loud as possible.... there's really nothing magic about DIY that's going to let you top them without spending more.
So, maximum efficiency and maximum power handling. Do you know how they do that in concerts? Usually, line arrays. You get 3 db gain from doubling the number of drivers, and 3 db increase in overall SPL capability through doubling of power handling.
If you go to a major concert, you'll see a long column of speakers hung from a rigging. These form a string of speakers called a line array. There's a lot of stuff out there about this if you look.
If I had a budget of $5k and my goal was maximum SPL, I'd build two line arrays with about sixteen 6" drivers per side, and a line of horns next to the line of mids. I'd build them in boxes of whatever size would weigh less than 50 pounds each. These would all be sealed. For the bass, I'd do six lab horns. These would have two 12" woofers per horn, so a total of twelve 12" woofers.
Don't be discouraged that your project won't kill every other speaker in the world- there's always someone bigger, and if someone has more money and really wants to get something that's as big and as loud as possible.... there's really nothing magic about DIY that's going to let you top them without spending more.
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