The only thing I don't see on it that I'd like to see is some form of EQ. The digital crossover has enough EQ to take care of bass levels, a little room interaction, baffle step, and more specifically- the rising top end of that midwoofer.
The analog one is probably more intuitive since you get knobs and switches, but I think you could get a lot closer to "right" with the digital. I guess I'd go along with it if you had a passive series notch filter to flatten out the upper end of the 12" midwoofer... but that's likely to cost $20 per side for decent components. Another $70 total would get you the digital, with all of the possibly useful tools that would be a big help for live sound.
I guess that if you want to make your dollar squeal, the analog active with some shaping for the midwoofer would do the trick.
The analog one is probably more intuitive since you get knobs and switches, but I think you could get a lot closer to "right" with the digital. I guess I'd go along with it if you had a passive series notch filter to flatten out the upper end of the 12" midwoofer... but that's likely to cost $20 per side for decent components. Another $70 total would get you the digital, with all of the possibly useful tools that would be a big help for live sound.
I guess that if you want to make your dollar squeal, the analog active with some shaping for the midwoofer would do the trick.
It would be nice not to have to throw in an inductor on that mid range...
I guess its up to Punkr. Neither is in stock until supposedly Oct 15 due to Behringers production/government problems. So Punkr can decide then. Punkr, the 2496 model is REALLY great and will work for you forever, but is more expensive and more complicated to use.
I guess its up to Punkr. Neither is in stock until supposedly Oct 15 due to Behringers production/government problems. So Punkr can decide then. Punkr, the 2496 model is REALLY great and will work for you forever, but is more expensive and more complicated to use.
Crikey! After more than 400 posts we finally settle on a design and a set of drivers- but people still want to change it all. Band of trouble makers!! 😡
I don't want to come across as a jerk, just trying to keep us on track. Variac has been doing a great job of that so far. He's a much better diplomat than I. Just wanted to add my thoughts.
I gotta say all the suggestions have been good ones, but too may of them miss the point. Remember the design goals? And remember where all this started and even the title of this thread! We've come a long way since then. Don't you think?
Eva: The waveguide idea is a good one, for sure, but for the sake of simplicity, cost and easily achievable results, we want to stay with direct radiators. Horn/waveguide loaded mids would certainly be the way to go for a PA (or even Hi-Fi) but they don't seem like the best solution here.
Your point about a pile of drivers with bad crossovers is well taken, I've heard far too many of them - mostly DJ rigs. But that is why we have been very careful in our choice of drivers. We want a set of drivers that will play well together without the need for complicated crossover topology. Using an active filter between Low and Mid will go a long way to help. The Behringer 3 way has some time align features, too, if we need them.
When we get an idea of the passive cross between mid-highs, we would love to hear your comments and advice. Crossovers ain't easy!
Joe: The Behringer Ultra Drive is a great piece of kit, but it's been out of stock in the USA for many months. Behringer are in trouble with the Feds. Million dollar fine. As soon as the flow starts again, the UltraDrives will get gobbled up fast. I used to use them in PA, but never knew until last year how well liked they are in Hi-Fi. But for the moment it's out, alas.
Variac: Yes, that Behringer 3 way would be excellent for the job. I've used them (and even read the manual 😱 ) . If he can't get it, there are others that will do as well.
The Denon AV receiver that Punk Sr. just bought will do 150 WPC over 7 channels. OK, we know it won't really do that. But driving just 4 channels it might get close. It's a good amp to get the system up and running. It has preamp outs, and external ins, for outboard processing. Just what we need! I'll look up the manual again and post the link here. And as Joe points out, at those power levels this system is going to be VERY loud.
So there we have it.
I was sure hoping for a shopping list this morning. But maybe in a day or two, eh?
I don't want to come across as a jerk, just trying to keep us on track. Variac has been doing a great job of that so far. He's a much better diplomat than I. Just wanted to add my thoughts.
I gotta say all the suggestions have been good ones, but too may of them miss the point. Remember the design goals? And remember where all this started and even the title of this thread! We've come a long way since then. Don't you think?
Eva: The waveguide idea is a good one, for sure, but for the sake of simplicity, cost and easily achievable results, we want to stay with direct radiators. Horn/waveguide loaded mids would certainly be the way to go for a PA (or even Hi-Fi) but they don't seem like the best solution here.
Your point about a pile of drivers with bad crossovers is well taken, I've heard far too many of them - mostly DJ rigs. But that is why we have been very careful in our choice of drivers. We want a set of drivers that will play well together without the need for complicated crossover topology. Using an active filter between Low and Mid will go a long way to help. The Behringer 3 way has some time align features, too, if we need them.
When we get an idea of the passive cross between mid-highs, we would love to hear your comments and advice. Crossovers ain't easy!
Joe: The Behringer Ultra Drive is a great piece of kit, but it's been out of stock in the USA for many months. Behringer are in trouble with the Feds. Million dollar fine. As soon as the flow starts again, the UltraDrives will get gobbled up fast. I used to use them in PA, but never knew until last year how well liked they are in Hi-Fi. But for the moment it's out, alas.
Variac: Yes, that Behringer 3 way would be excellent for the job. I've used them (and even read the manual 😱 ) . If he can't get it, there are others that will do as well.
The Denon AV receiver that Punk Sr. just bought will do 150 WPC over 7 channels. OK, we know it won't really do that. But driving just 4 channels it might get close. It's a good amp to get the system up and running. It has preamp outs, and external ins, for outboard processing. Just what we need! I'll look up the manual again and post the link here. And as Joe points out, at those power levels this system is going to be VERY loud.
So there we have it.
I was sure hoping for a shopping list this morning. But maybe in a day or two, eh?
Oh yes....a long way....since Punks first attempt....with double 15" Pioneers....a different class now....I am quite sure he cannot demolish theese drivers.....making things better....well, that goes on forever, I hope.....🙂
And others that wants it a little different can find some usefull information....even PE got something out of it
Hopefully we will se pictures in a near future 😀
And others that wants it a little different can find some usefull information....even PE got something out of it
Hopefully we will se pictures in a near future 😀
oh yes you will see pictures, just a matter of time.
I can't wait, now that I think about it not only will these be a monster sitting in my room but they will also be an income.
One of my friends is throwing a huge party ( no not while his parents are out ) and he said that he'll gladly let me set my speakers at it. Thjis party is in mid November so I got about 2 months to be ready for it. So from the looks of it I'm thinking about becoming a DJ and later adding a monsterous infinite baffle subwoofer and later building another sets of these speakers.
But that's all in the future right now I have to get these done first.
You guys are talking about the crossovers so I'll stay out cause all of the technical mumbo jumbo is really giving me a headache.
I can't wait, now that I think about it not only will these be a monster sitting in my room but they will also be an income.
One of my friends is throwing a huge party ( no not while his parents are out ) and he said that he'll gladly let me set my speakers at it. Thjis party is in mid November so I got about 2 months to be ready for it. So from the looks of it I'm thinking about becoming a DJ and later adding a monsterous infinite baffle subwoofer and later building another sets of these speakers.
But that's all in the future right now I have to get these done first.
You guys are talking about the crossovers so I'll stay out cause all of the technical mumbo jumbo is really giving me a headache.
punkrokr1701 said:
Don't worry. We will do the mumbo jumbo for you.
Then you will have to put it all in place. That's where the headaches will start.
ok, thanx guys.
And just so there's no confusion on thees speakers I want to them to be able to outperform these or anything else that Cerwin Vega makes including the Dc1515 models that my friend has. I have seen these in action and they are a force to be reckoned with.
Sorry that link didn't work it had cookies attached and didn't transfer right, it was to the CLS15
I am very poud of this design but can it smear my friends DC1515's like a bug on the windshield?
And just so there's no confusion on thees speakers I want to them to be able to outperform these or anything else that Cerwin Vega makes including the Dc1515 models that my friend has. I have seen these in action and they are a force to be reckoned with.
Sorry that link didn't work it had cookies attached and didn't transfer right, it was to the CLS15
I am very poud of this design but can it smear my friends DC1515's like a bug on the windshield?
Cerwin Vega make big loud party speakers, just like the good old days.
Couldn't find the DC1515s. Got a better link?
Couldn't find the DC1515s. Got a better link?
There shouldn't be any problem outperforming the CLS15 . The CLS-215 might give it a run for the money, depending on what Cerwin Vega's bass drivers are like. The 18 inch drivers you're using have a lot of surface area, but their Xmax is less than 7 mm. If the Cerwin Vegas have a lot of clean excursion (and if their efficiency rating is honest), then it could be a tossup for which one can ultimately make more bass.
14 mm or more Xmax for an efficient speaker made by Cerwin Vega seems kind of unlikely. It's expensive to build a woofer that can perform like that.
14 mm or more Xmax for an efficient speaker made by Cerwin Vega seems kind of unlikely. It's expensive to build a woofer that can perform like that.
http://www.realmofexcursion.com/videos.html
here's a link that should have some videos with Dc-1515's in em.
If it deosn't work just scroll down on the left sidebar for Cerwin Vega and click it then you'll a page with Cerwin Vega speakers on vid.
It also have a video with those C215's in it. It's abouthe 10th video.
If my speakers can demolish those C215's I willl be plenty satisfied.
Well, when I do get done I'll call my friend out and get some judges to call the verdict, hey I'll post a vid of it when that does happen so you guys can make a call.
And at a cost of about $880 for a pair it'll be the battle of the $900 speakers. DIY'er Punkrokr1701's M-5's vs. Cerwin Vega CLS 215.
We'll use the same amp for each contender to be fair.
here's a link that should have some videos with Dc-1515's in em.
If it deosn't work just scroll down on the left sidebar for Cerwin Vega and click it then you'll a page with Cerwin Vega speakers on vid.
It also have a video with those C215's in it. It's abouthe 10th video.
If my speakers can demolish those C215's I willl be plenty satisfied.
Well, when I do get done I'll call my friend out and get some judges to call the verdict, hey I'll post a vid of it when that does happen so you guys can make a call.
And at a cost of about $880 for a pair it'll be the battle of the $900 speakers. DIY'er Punkrokr1701's M-5's vs. Cerwin Vega CLS 215.
We'll use the same amp for each contender to be fair.
I have heard two 10" woofers do excactly as good as two CW 15"
I think your 18" will go deeper....might give you the advantage
EDIT I hope your dad builds solid boxes
I think your 18" will go deeper....might give you the advantage
EDIT I hope your dad builds solid boxes
Ok, well I searched around PE and all the 18" drivers have a Xmax that is either very close or lower than of the drivers I selected. Just out of curiousity does anyone know of a high excursion 18" driver around the 150 - 200 dollar price range?
or say I was to add a "hidden subwoofer in the cabinet?
well, anyways back on track where were we?
or say I was to add a "hidden subwoofer in the cabinet?
well, anyways back on track where were we?
Well, I don't think your Dayton 18s will dance like that. Not the same kind of driver. But yours will sound sooo much better.
They may sound so much better that you won't even think they are loud. But they will be. Might have to Punk 'em up to get that crazy rattle eveyone with big car stereos seems to love.
I've been in front of EAW stacks during sound check so loud that I thought they would make my insides explode and my heart collapse. And the cones weren't moving much!
EDIT: If all you want is dancing drivers, we can stop right now. Just go get some car sound drivers and big amps. They'll be loud and dance around. But that's all. Nuff said.
They may sound so much better that you won't even think they are loud. But they will be. Might have to Punk 'em up to get that crazy rattle eveyone with big car stereos seems to love.
I've been in front of EAW stacks during sound check so loud that I thought they would make my insides explode and my heart collapse. And the cones weren't moving much!
EDIT: If all you want is dancing drivers, we can stop right now. Just go get some car sound drivers and big amps. They'll be loud and dance around. But that's all. Nuff said.
Punk,
With these M-1812 speakers you will be taking a pistol to a knife fight.
I'm doing some drawings and might have something next week.
It will show how to do the ports as slots and maybe some bracing ideas.
You should just draw yours with a pencil probably and then find a scanner and then post the file here.
With these M-1812 speakers you will be taking a pistol to a knife fight.
I'm doing some drawings and might have something next week.
It will show how to do the ports as slots and maybe some bracing ideas.
You should just draw yours with a pencil probably and then find a scanner and then post the file here.
At the end of the rope.....double 12" pr speaker and a tweeterhorn....each woofer does 97db at 100hz and 99db at 150hz and could be tuned to 35-40hz....should give a total sensitivity well above 100db.....and be cheaper too
That I promise you will play pretty loud and beat him easily.....and would be much better suited for a "gig"....if thats what you call it
Any small band could do with that
I guess this aint popular
That I promise you will play pretty loud and beat him easily.....and would be much better suited for a "gig"....if thats what you call it
Any small band could do with that
I guess this aint popular
well, thax Variac but let's not get to cocky those Cerwin Vega CLS15's have a whole history of reputation behind them and not without good reason.
I'm so sorry tinitus but the 12"'s just ain't gonna cut it
I'm so sorry tinitus but the 12"'s just ain't gonna cut it
Because there is still a small amount of bandwidth left in this thread I'd thought I show you these. Check out the MSRP at the bottom. Yikes!
http://www.alteclansing.com/legacy/specs.asp
http://www.alteclansing.com/legacy/specs.asp
Yes, after a passive XO, a measured 97. Not a speculated one.
Oops, I better bow out here. I don't want the boss mad at me.
Oops, I better bow out here. I don't want the boss mad at me.
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