Yr link did not mention L+C+R nature of a resistor.
The link did not mention the crucial L+C+R nature of a realworld resistor which forms a complex AC network for the complex dynamic music signal to go thru. IMO, it is how the music signals act on the AC network that actually form the sound "colouration" rather than simply the noise characteristics of a resistor as per the link.
c-J
adason said:
The link did not mention the crucial L+C+R nature of a realworld resistor which forms a complex AC network for the complex dynamic music signal to go thru. IMO, it is how the music signals act on the AC network that actually form the sound "colouration" rather than simply the noise characteristics of a resistor as per the link.
c-J
fdegrove said:
Indeed. One of my first ever projects was to build a couple versions Nuuk's buffer. It is basically 3 transistors and a handful of resistors. I build one with Holcos, one with PRPs, one with Kiwames, and one that was a mix. The Holco version was unlistenably shrill. The PRP + Kiwame was quite nice, and is still in regular use by a friend.
oldmanStrat said:
Its kind of an odd question, really. It seems like the better questions would be how could a resistor not change the sound? That is, is it possible to build a perfect resistor? Clearly it isn't.
Re: Re: How can a resistor "sound" good?
ha - no, gettin' old actually. More to the point I'm a long time digital engineer - where a resistor is a resistor, and a cap a cap. (and men are men lol)
I haven't stepped over to the crazy dark side of the world of analog until just recently...
I should change my sig to "I have to pay WHAT for a cap?"
analog_sa said:
You must be really new
Been using selected resistors in all "good" audio projects since '85 when i first heard Shinkoh tantalums. Probably not the most cost effective way to optimise sound but once you have exhausted everything else and don't care much about cost...
ha - no, gettin' old actually. More to the point I'm a long time digital engineer - where a resistor is a resistor, and a cap a cap. (and men are men lol)
I haven't stepped over to the crazy dark side of the world of analog until just recently...
I should change my sig to "I have to pay WHAT for a cap?"
Re: Yr link did not mention L+C+R nature of a resistor.
hey-Hey!!!,
So it is the parasitic quantities that are responsible for sonic performance? Now I've applied shunt capacitance to plate loads for a few experiments, and it takes a lot of capacitance to be audible...far more than what any normal resistor will have.
cheers,
Douglas
cheap-Jack said:
hey-Hey!!!,
So it is the parasitic quantities that are responsible for sonic performance? Now I've applied shunt capacitance to plate loads for a few experiments, and it takes a lot of capacitance to be audible...far more than what any normal resistor will have.
cheers,
Douglas
Every time I change something in my regs or gnd and I see a different noise floor on FFT in dB or shape, the circuit sounds distinctly different.
I guess because even when THD quantity and trend or noise floor are adequate, but still each improvement has a subjective impact, it is not exactly that, we hear, but its just an indication of linearity and resolution.
Because people changing resistors and capacitors quality in my phono thread, unanimously claim that they shape the sonics, and most surprisingly agree on the trends, I would be tempted to theorize that resistors quality noise shapes the floor. But I may be wrong.
I guess because even when THD quantity and trend or noise floor are adequate, but still each improvement has a subjective impact, it is not exactly that, we hear, but its just an indication of linearity and resolution.
Because people changing resistors and capacitors quality in my phono thread, unanimously claim that they shape the sonics, and most surprisingly agree on the trends, I would be tempted to theorize that resistors quality noise shapes the floor. But I may be wrong.
Since we are on the (general) topic, can someone tell me the pros and cons of the various types (MF, CF, CC, MO, WW) in the grid stopper position on an output tube in class A or AB1.
Since they don’t pass current (right?) I’m thinking that DC hiss is not a concern. I understand that heat can be a concern if mounted on the socket but what other factors matter sonically? Is there a consensus winner?
I think I’m using Metal Oxide since those are common in 1 or 2watt -1.5k from the supplier I used. I wonder if I should try something else and if I would even hear any difference.
Since they don’t pass current (right?) I’m thinking that DC hiss is not a concern. I understand that heat can be a concern if mounted on the socket but what other factors matter sonically? Is there a consensus winner?
I think I’m using Metal Oxide since those are common in 1 or 2watt -1.5k from the supplier I used. I wonder if I should try something else and if I would even hear any difference.
It's not that they don't pass current (the Johnson noise remains unchanged), but grid stoppers contribute negligible noise because of the voltage level at that point. It takes something like 15-50V to drive a grid; the few microvolts contributed by a resistor don't really matter that much.
Conventional wisdom is carbon comps there for best stability. As Wavebourn says, wattage doesn't matter much.
Conventional wisdom is carbon comps there for best stability. As Wavebourn says, wattage doesn't matter much.
Yipes.
With respect, I again read about there not being a perfect resistor. See, there is also C and L, and voltage modulation, and temperature effect (somebody forgot to mention having to run them in).
But no quantative information! Our early amplifiers achieved 0,1% distortion easily with 1950 components. Today folks change resistors in 1,0% distortion amplifiers, and lo and behold, it changes the sound! A change of sound quality after replacing resistors in old amplifiers - did anybody ever bother to measure the replaced resistors? How about finding them to be up to 30% out? (That is what I have found when refurbishing Quad IIs).
Using the self-same resistors we use in audio amplifiers, I built a 150 MHz radio receiver, capable of sensing down to 10 nV into 50 ohms (not a typo) - no problems with C and L of resistors or anything else than Johnson noise (they were 125mW metal film types). Trying to improve S/N ratio in very sensitive measuring equipment, there is the slightest difference between modern carbon and metal film. (OK, I moaned about lack of values - it was about 3%.)
So for the moment my priorities in audio is not wishing I could afford Vishay or Black Belt (or something) electrolytic capacitors, as I do not see the x.th order effects of resistors and capacitors in spec. analyses (not talking of using Hi-K ceramic caps in filters or such). As someone said, there are such discrepancies in hearing experiences, that I respectfully respect personal experiences and am happy for their happiness - but as said before: For which of the diverse experiences must I design?
Until some better and more consistent yardstick comes along (which I will be the first to adopt), I sadly stick with present-day measurements. I am not holding my breath.
With respect, I again read about there not being a perfect resistor. See, there is also C and L, and voltage modulation, and temperature effect (somebody forgot to mention having to run them in).
But no quantative information! Our early amplifiers achieved 0,1% distortion easily with 1950 components. Today folks change resistors in 1,0% distortion amplifiers, and lo and behold, it changes the sound! A change of sound quality after replacing resistors in old amplifiers - did anybody ever bother to measure the replaced resistors? How about finding them to be up to 30% out? (That is what I have found when refurbishing Quad IIs).
Using the self-same resistors we use in audio amplifiers, I built a 150 MHz radio receiver, capable of sensing down to 10 nV into 50 ohms (not a typo) - no problems with C and L of resistors or anything else than Johnson noise (they were 125mW metal film types). Trying to improve S/N ratio in very sensitive measuring equipment, there is the slightest difference between modern carbon and metal film. (OK, I moaned about lack of values - it was about 3%.)
So for the moment my priorities in audio is not wishing I could afford Vishay or Black Belt (or something) electrolytic capacitors, as I do not see the x.th order effects of resistors and capacitors in spec. analyses (not talking of using Hi-K ceramic caps in filters or such). As someone said, there are such discrepancies in hearing experiences, that I respectfully respect personal experiences and am happy for their happiness - but as said before: For which of the diverse experiences must I design?
Until some better and more consistent yardstick comes along (which I will be the first to adopt), I sadly stick with present-day measurements. I am not holding my breath.
Hi,
The near colourless (meaning an inaudible) resistor was the old Vishay. (VSH..something)
Granted they were very limited in use for valve apps but boy those resistors were the closest thing to having no resistor at all.
BTW, as innocent as they may seem I'd rather avoid gridstoppers than add them.
Cheers,
The near colourless (meaning an inaudible) resistor was the old Vishay. (VSH..something)
Granted they were very limited in use for valve apps but boy those resistors were the closest thing to having no resistor at all.
BTW, as innocent as they may seem I'd rather avoid gridstoppers than add them.
Cheers,
fdegrove said:
Hi Frank,
I have a feeling you stated this elsewhere ... but seeing as me old grey matter is becoming that literally -
I also think they are sometimes used piously, but there were occasions that I did find help from them, as in easing NFB stability margin. So kindly give your reasons for your statement?
Regards
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