Yes, something like that. 105, 112, I don't remember exactly. And real RGB at each pixel, not the Beyer matrix like the digicams. But your talking about $30K worth of camera. It will soon be obsolete, with the arrival of good medium format digital backs.
Pro gear is obscenely expensive, but if you do it for a living, worth it. Photo, video, audio. That's why I made my remark about the Studer tape deck. Lovely machine. But I'm glad I did not have to buy one for home use. ($$$). Or buy my music on tape ($$) I'm grateful for LPs and CDs.
To try and swerve the usual CD vs LP arguments into a new direction, has anyone ever tried taking a (decently recorded!) 16-bit/44.1 file, applying the EXACT process to that file that would be necessary to get it onto an LP (i.e. summing the bass, etc etc), and then replaying that 'RIAA'd file through a decent phono stage?
Just curious what the outcome would be..... I'd wager people (in a blind listening test) might well prefer the processed file over the 'pure' version...
- John
P.S. I use and enjoy both formats - seems to be a very human characteristic to have to proclaim one more superior than the other instead of saying they both have their strengths and weaknesses.
Just curious what the outcome would be..... I'd wager people (in a blind listening test) might well prefer the processed file over the 'pure' version...
- John
P.S. I use and enjoy both formats - seems to be a very human characteristic to have to proclaim one more superior than the other instead of saying they both have their strengths and weaknesses.
To me what is a very human characteristic is to perceive the same thing differently in different surroundings or at different times. When people say "it sounds better" or "worse", most of the time I just plain disbelieve them. They don't know what they are saying because they think they are believing their own senses, when in fact they are just in a good mood, or bad, or hooked on vinyl fetishism, or their ears are tired from too much Billy Ray Cyrus the day before.
Ever listened to your system and thought it was the best thing since sliced bread, and then listened a day later and it's sounded flat and lifeless? Or vice versa? 90% of people here would assume that something had changed, like 'interference on the mains' or one of their pneumatic amplifier supports must need pumping up. Very few people, it seems to me, has the self-awareness to say 'I'm just not in the mood/ I'm tired/ my ears are fatigued', or 'I'm in a good mood' or 'those drugs are damn fine!' or 'I've got so much invested in those mains cables made from melted down copper from the generators of the Titanic that I'm bound to think they're good. Tomorrow, when the $1000 per foot cost has sunk in, I'll panic and think they don't sound nearly good enough, and start planning my next purchase of over-priced garbage. But that's for tomorrow. Yeee-hah!!!'
Sound after having nookie is particularly pleasurable too.
Though fags still rate no1 (at least, after a hetero act)
Though fags still rate no1 (at least, after a hetero act)
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Absolutely agree 100% with all of that - people don't like to admit they're fallible though especially audiophiles 😉
I also find it somewhat amusing that several times now in this thread it's been mentioned that if you take a recording from an LP using any reasonably priced decent soundcard (Emu 0404 for example) and transfer it onto a CD it retains a very good proportion of the original vinyl 'sound'. This must therfore surely point towards the fact that digital IS capable of vinyls warmth and other attributes... it just presents the master more accurately (IFFFFF mastered correctly 😉). I wonder how many people - in a blind test - would prefer the sound of a vinyl pressing over the original mastertape? Most music played live in the real world DOES have a rather hard edged sound and many of the attributes people like to criticize CD for.
I'd still like to hear if anyone has tried putting a 16-bit file through the RIAA process, then played that file through a phono stage.....
P.S. I am not anti-vinyl BTW!!! I just get tired of hearing the same old digital bashing and vinyl is the best thing since sliced bread arguments.
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A couple of us have tried with plug-ins that are supposed to give a vinyl sound. IMO, they sound awful. But a careful mastering effect like that, I don't think so. It would be a great experiment.
There can be many reasons for that. It's going to have the influence of all the mastering done to the signal for it to fit on vinyl, RIAA, then reverse, bass, bandwidth, ect. Then the sound of the preamp itself. Also, it will be (usually) an unaltered digital signal. No mucking about with it, no sample rate conversion, etc. That might have something to do with it.
Would that same digital recording lose some of its charm if mastered for CD? And sent to the CD pressing plant? I don't know. But I do have a few CDs that definitely came from vinyl. Some are awful, some are nice. I don't think they sound very "vinyl".
We've done a lot of listening tests, both sighted and blind, I can tell you that a master tape sounds much better than a Vinyl recording and certainly any CD. In fact, speaking of digital, we've played a glass master and compared it to a CD made from that master and the difference was like night and day, IOW: not subtle!
Best Regards,
TerryO
OK, that makes more sense. The distortion is pretty high, but if it were 0.5cm/s, the 5cm/s distortion would be off the charts.
Interesting article about restoring/playing back old recordings, with sound clipps:
http://irene.lbl.gov/Library-of-Congress-Jan-12-2007.pdf
http://irene.lbl.gov/Library-of-Congress-Jan-12-2007.pdf
So you are saying if you hear a difference it doesn't exist ? Could you describe your system used for such musings and conclusions.
A turntable is not better or worse than a CD when playing the same performance.
If you aren't listening to the music intensively enough, than you are worse than another listener that doesn't get distracted. It is better to tweak our behaviour than to blame hardware.
If you aren't listening to the music intensively enough, than you are worse than another listener that doesn't get distracted. It is better to tweak our behaviour than to blame hardware.
I read a lot of similar statements here on the forum and elsewhere.
This seems related to the denial of expert listeners or "golden ears" we read so often. The denial that trained or experienced, even talented listeners exist seem strange. How many refuse to believe that there are talented musicians, painters, machinists, football players, cooks? Why are listeners except from training, experience and talent? Because we can't believe our ears?
And while I don't say it's not true - I've experienced it myself - I do think it's overstated. Is our hearing so fickle and unreliable that we can't be sure of what we hear from day to day? Will I not recognize my phone ringing or my wife calling me to dinner? Will the cat be confused by the sound of a tuna tin? I think not. Yet we read this over and over. Is our hearing really that bad?
This seems related to the denial of expert listeners or "golden ears" we read so often. The denial that trained or experienced, even talented listeners exist seem strange. How many refuse to believe that there are talented musicians, painters, machinists, football players, cooks? Why are listeners except from training, experience and talent? Because we can't believe our ears?
They're not- trained listeners are better at spotting issues and identifying them. Same with trained wine tasters. BUT... every trained wine taster knows that he/she has duff days and good days. They may still know the difference between a high alcohol red and a low alcohol white, but on one day, the taster may be able to say, "This tastes great," and on a different day, same wine, say, "This sucks." Very well known. And it has NOTHING to do with scent receptors or taste buds (analogous to ears)- it's the brain. Human brains. We all have 'em.
While I may not yet be ready to throw in with CopperTop (I either want to listen to music, or not. I've never been aware of a "Gee, my stereo sounds different today" factor.), I do agree with you, Pano. A mechanic that listens to engines can often hear and diagnose a problem. People that listen to subtleties in audio equipment are "tuned-in" to those things. OTOH, a mechanic that hears things that aren't there is really just padding his bill, and a expert listener that hears things that aren't there is really just padding his ego.
I don't, it's understated if anything.
In terms of fine detail of experience, yes.
My dog has been convinced of people walking up the front path when it is coming from a foley effect in a movie (at least when he was young and not deaf like now). Can your cat tell the difference between two similar size cans of cat food of different brands? And if so, how do you know it is not an odour it is detecting rather than the sound?
Show me someone that has shown consistent and reliable 'golden hearing' beyond their own assertion of that. Without that, no one has any more reason to believe someone's claim of an ability, any more than say you Pano, telling me you can run 100m in 10 sec. Especially if said claim is in line with typical audiophile one's that it can only be done in their yard, at night, with no one else watching and timing by counting 'one elephant, two elephant....'.
I have an excellent video extract that is worth seeing and listening to.
Also, for the record, I do not have "golden ears" And yes, some days music sound so very good. Others, I recognize I'm just not into it.
But as far as the trick of human hearing goes, it is truly amazing what we "THINK" we hear. Also the damage that first reflections can do to what we really want to hear. He is the link...............................
YouTube - Audio Myths Workshop
Also, for the record, I do not have "golden ears" And yes, some days music sound so very good. Others, I recognize I'm just not into it.
But as far as the trick of human hearing goes, it is truly amazing what we "THINK" we hear. Also the damage that first reflections can do to what we really want to hear. He is the link...............................
YouTube - Audio Myths Workshop
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