Hans L said:
I'd recommend anyone interested do some reading up on them first. It seems they can last forever if used right, but they can also fail horribly. The voltage they see is regulated and so far as I said I've been getting away with 15V just fine. Also, they're radial and with a good bend in the leads they solder right onto the SMT pads of the ceramic. It is not worth leaving the ceramic in place, it seems to kill the sound.
Maybe if you could get a smaller SMT tantalum , a larger radial one could be made to straddle it.
Otherwise get it close to the PCB of course. They're small enough and lightweight so lifting the pads shouldnt' be a worry, I have managed fine.
I would be interested in knowing if a higher voltage cap would sound good, after reading up on them I've my doubts that it would, and it would be more difficult to squeeze it in too.
Hans Zimmer, The Da-vinci Code soundtrack .... some incredible testing material in there, particularly this one track for bass "beneath alrischa" towards the end. Dynamics are truly frightening on the whole album. 
difference between Modules
I remember reading somewhere in this forum, and I just forgot. What is the difference between the two modules, 180 and 400. The comparator is identical between the two. Is it the MOSFET transistor? The reason I ask I will be amassing the parts slowly as the money permits. I can get a 630VA from Kevin secondary is 30V This one is designed for the 180 x5, if you want to put them in the same chassis. Would it hurt the UCD400 with that low of output. The power output would be down some. Just thought I would ask.
Ray?
I remember reading somewhere in this forum, and I just forgot. What is the difference between the two modules, 180 and 400. The comparator is identical between the two. Is it the MOSFET transistor? The reason I ask I will be amassing the parts slowly as the money permits. I can get a 630VA from Kevin secondary is 30V This one is designed for the 180 x5, if you want to put them in the same chassis. Would it hurt the UCD400 with that low of output. The power output would be down some. Just thought I would ask.
Ray?
Music
Thanks for the info Chris, much appreciated. This music covers a dynamic range you can’t believe! Haven’t listened to it all yet and not my cup of tea for easy listening but an excellent test disk. Covers top to bottom on my music player RTA. Got to be at least 80db!
Roger
classd4sure said:Hans Zimmer, The Da-vinci Code soundtrack .... some incredible testing material in there, particularly this one track for bass "beneath alrischa" towards the end. Dynamics are truly frightening on the whole album.
Thanks for the info Chris, much appreciated. This music covers a dynamic range you can’t believe! Haven’t listened to it all yet and not my cup of tea for easy listening but an excellent test disk. Covers top to bottom on my music player RTA. Got to be at least 80db!
Roger
Re: Music
Roger,
My idea of easy listening is the new Tool album 10 000 days I already mentioned 🙂
This new Zimmer thing though is I think the best I heard from him, even though it's not at all my cup of tea either. It seems like he's using the dynamic range as his playground throughout the entire album, still makes it a real thrill to listen to I find. One second you're straining to hear, the next your heart stops.
Excellent testing material, glad you think so too. 🙂
Just to get back on topic for a quick second..
The "tatalums" (as known by circuit city and radio scrap):
One module has the 10uf, the other 1uF. Using my soundcards inbuilt test tone generator, it is interesting to see that the one with the 10uF is much more responsive in the low end. Can plainly feel the earth move at 25Hz, while the other doesn't even start until about 30Hz, and can't feel it the same way until about 35Hz.
The 1uF however seems to carry more of the highs through ever so slightly, say for instance when it comes to the stick hitting the skin. Still, the 10uF seems to have a more forward presentation of the vocals and midrange in general.
I believe I'm going to upgrade the 1uF module to a 4.7uF and see how that works, I think it's going to be the value I go with.
BTW, I had good fun today. It's "clean up" week here. Everyone throws out big item trash and people go treasure hunting through it before it's removed a few days later.
I scooped a TV, two monitors, two PC SMPS', and one ol tower, which actually had a few OSCON's on it (6.3V... damn).
The monitors are the BEST, each one contains a number of real nice little heatsinks perfect for homebrew class d, as do some of the SMPS' (I lucked out today with those, real nice ones!) all kinds of caps, common mode chokes, silpads, rectifiers, etc. I strip the candy out and throw the shells back out on the street.
It's DIY'er heaven. Goes on all week in different areas of town, screw mardi gras. Next time I go hunting I'll be looking for old amps and receivers.. all kinds of low noise transistors and... you can just imagine 🙂 Jealous yet? Should be!
Cheers,
Chris
sx881663 said:
Roger,
My idea of easy listening is the new Tool album 10 000 days I already mentioned 🙂
This new Zimmer thing though is I think the best I heard from him, even though it's not at all my cup of tea either. It seems like he's using the dynamic range as his playground throughout the entire album, still makes it a real thrill to listen to I find. One second you're straining to hear, the next your heart stops.
Excellent testing material, glad you think so too. 🙂
Just to get back on topic for a quick second..
The "tatalums" (as known by circuit city and radio scrap):
One module has the 10uf, the other 1uF. Using my soundcards inbuilt test tone generator, it is interesting to see that the one with the 10uF is much more responsive in the low end. Can plainly feel the earth move at 25Hz, while the other doesn't even start until about 30Hz, and can't feel it the same way until about 35Hz.
The 1uF however seems to carry more of the highs through ever so slightly, say for instance when it comes to the stick hitting the skin. Still, the 10uF seems to have a more forward presentation of the vocals and midrange in general.
I believe I'm going to upgrade the 1uF module to a 4.7uF and see how that works, I think it's going to be the value I go with.
BTW, I had good fun today. It's "clean up" week here. Everyone throws out big item trash and people go treasure hunting through it before it's removed a few days later.
I scooped a TV, two monitors, two PC SMPS', and one ol tower, which actually had a few OSCON's on it (6.3V... damn).
The monitors are the BEST, each one contains a number of real nice little heatsinks perfect for homebrew class d, as do some of the SMPS' (I lucked out today with those, real nice ones!) all kinds of caps, common mode chokes, silpads, rectifiers, etc. I strip the candy out and throw the shells back out on the street.
It's DIY'er heaven. Goes on all week in different areas of town, screw mardi gras. Next time I go hunting I'll be looking for old amps and receivers.. all kinds of low noise transistors and... you can just imagine 🙂 Jealous yet? Should be!
Cheers,
Chris
UCD 400AD
Followup on two questions:
1. What was the outcome of using an RC across the secondaries. Are you guys sticking with it or dropped it?
2. Tantalum caps - On the above module are we talking about: "C6 & C7 the SMD bypass caps close to the supply pins" on the under side of the module?
Thanks
Followup on two questions:
1. What was the outcome of using an RC across the secondaries. Are you guys sticking with it or dropped it?
2. Tantalum caps - On the above module are we talking about: "C6 & C7 the SMD bypass caps close to the supply pins" on the under side of the module?
Thanks
Different IC's
Hi all,
Has anyone tried an AD825 yet. I ask this if you go over to www.Referenceaudiomod.com and look at there IC's They claim the sound is not compressed with these particular pieces. I've also contacted Hypex to see if there is a recommended voltage for those tantalum replacements on C6 and C7.
On a slightly different note, a correction has to be made. Aerovox dropped BHC about 4 years ago, and it looks like the only place we can get those suckers is direct from TNM. So that's the news.
Ray
Hi all,
Has anyone tried an AD825 yet. I ask this if you go over to www.Referenceaudiomod.com and look at there IC's They claim the sound is not compressed with these particular pieces. I've also contacted Hypex to see if there is a recommended voltage for those tantalum replacements on C6 and C7.
On a slightly different note, a correction has to be made. Aerovox dropped BHC about 4 years ago, and it looks like the only place we can get those suckers is direct from TNM. So that's the news.
Ray
Various Stuff
Hi Again,
Well, I've been searching literally all night long. I think it was Rick who posted something about using some caps on the 12 volt rails with a 25V rating? Would you please repost that?
Those two ceramic caps C6 and C7 are 22UF at least on the UCD400. The bypass cap to ground on the Fast-On pins are 100NF. Have fun. So has anyone else gotten brave and replaced the two ceramics with 4.7UF caps yet?
Let's see, oh, Portlandmike, the 2nd transformer is the one you want. A bit overkill, but the voltage for the secondary I understand from Kevin Haskins should be about 40V. Anything to much above that will engate the overvoltage protection of the amp.
And the last one is the Wima MKP2 caps at the output. What were the values of each of the caps, and if you have the measurements, both before and after, could you send them to me? Thanks, all. for your patience. I am a admittedly newbee here, and decided to build one of these amps, and am doing as much research as I can before I am forced back to work, due to lack of mula. Let's keep the mods coming. Because what we do can definitely influuence what Jan and Bruno do with these amps.
Regards to all,
Ray
Hi Again,
Well, I've been searching literally all night long. I think it was Rick who posted something about using some caps on the 12 volt rails with a 25V rating? Would you please repost that?
Those two ceramic caps C6 and C7 are 22UF at least on the UCD400. The bypass cap to ground on the Fast-On pins are 100NF. Have fun. So has anyone else gotten brave and replaced the two ceramics with 4.7UF caps yet?
Let's see, oh, Portlandmike, the 2nd transformer is the one you want. A bit overkill, but the voltage for the secondary I understand from Kevin Haskins should be about 40V. Anything to much above that will engate the overvoltage protection of the amp.
And the last one is the Wima MKP2 caps at the output. What were the values of each of the caps, and if you have the measurements, both before and after, could you send them to me? Thanks, all. for your patience. I am a admittedly newbee here, and decided to build one of these amps, and am doing as much research as I can before I am forced back to work, due to lack of mula. Let's keep the mods coming. Because what we do can definitely influuence what Jan and Bruno do with these amps.
Regards to all,
Ray
Re: Various Stuff
2 x 330nF for the MKP2. Just try them and let us know whether you like them.
Gertjan
ray bronk said:
2 x 330nF for the MKP2. Just try them and let us know whether you like them.
Gertjan
MKP2 .33UF
Hi Gertjan,
Thanks for the info. So you mounted one on top, and how did you mount the other one? I looked back a few pages, and couldn't find the post on it. Were there any differences as far as EMI like radio hash on AM. Did that go up any?
Ray
Hi Gertjan,
Thanks for the info. So you mounted one on top, and how did you mount the other one? I looked back a few pages, and couldn't find the post on it. Were there any differences as far as EMI like radio hash on AM. Did that go up any?
Ray
Re: MKP2 .33UF
One on top and one on bottom. I posted a picture somewhere. No EMI issues, however, I never listen to AM or FM radio so how would I know 🙂
Anyway, the measurements at the speaker output pins indicated better HF noise suppression (above 10Mhz or so). As the caps are small, I assume that also the radiated HF energy is not significantly increased. Actually the small size of the MKP2 caps and the fact that they are polypropylene caps were the main reasons why I choose them.
Gertjan
ray bronk said:
One on top and one on bottom. I posted a picture somewhere. No EMI issues, however, I never listen to AM or FM radio so how would I know 🙂
Anyway, the measurements at the speaker output pins indicated better HF noise suppression (above 10Mhz or so). As the caps are small, I assume that also the radiated HF energy is not significantly increased. Actually the small size of the MKP2 caps and the fact that they are polypropylene caps were the main reasons why I choose them.
Gertjan
Ray,
I mounted the first mkp2 from the bottom using the inner two holes then removed all the excess pin lead and solder with a very fine mini file so the second Wima would fit near flush. Carefully bent the pins of the second Wima with a needle nose to fit the outside holes. Note that these pins will be in near contact with the bottom mounted cap, so take care in soldering these!
Heretic that I am, I prefer the Sonicap Gen. II cap here, though I must admit that all else was not equal... the Sonicap output capped modules were dc coupled while the Wima output capped modules had Sonicap input caps... and I have two unshielded modules (they're mounted in wooden cases) immediately to both sides of my fm tuner and have no rf problems with the Sonicap output caps!
I mounted the first mkp2 from the bottom using the inner two holes then removed all the excess pin lead and solder with a very fine mini file so the second Wima would fit near flush. Carefully bent the pins of the second Wima with a needle nose to fit the outside holes. Note that these pins will be in near contact with the bottom mounted cap, so take care in soldering these!
Heretic that I am, I prefer the Sonicap Gen. II cap here, though I must admit that all else was not equal... the Sonicap output capped modules were dc coupled while the Wima output capped modules had Sonicap input caps... and I have two unshielded modules (they're mounted in wooden cases) immediately to both sides of my fm tuner and have no rf problems with the Sonicap output caps!
Dear Chris et al. :
About tantalums, what are the maximum dimensions tolerated to do this interesting mod?
Will this kind of SMT tantalum cap work:
RS components code nº 407-0160
From:
http://www.rs-export.com/cgi-bin/bv/home/Home.jsp?cacheID=gxie
I believe axial or radial types have higher ESR, wright?
I will have to practice SMD soldering....
Thanks!
M
About tantalums, what are the maximum dimensions tolerated to do this interesting mod?
Will this kind of SMT tantalum cap work:
RS components code nº 407-0160
From:
http://www.rs-export.com/cgi-bin/bv/home/Home.jsp?cacheID=gxie
I believe axial or radial types have higher ESR, wright?
I will have to practice SMD soldering....
Thanks!
M
Thanks, Bgt! 🙂
Good luck.
I hope someone will post a pick or two of the mod
For SMD components R and C look the same to me🙁
M.
Good luck.
I hope someone will post a pick or two of the mod
For SMD components R and C look the same to me🙁
M.
2 questions
Hi all,
1. If on either the 180 or the 400 if I use an oversized transformer, how could I get around the inrush current at turnon. It seems $69 for the softstart module might be a bit much.
2. How much is to much? I am at the moment planning to use 2 10000 caps in parallel. Without foing wacko on the supply, using Jensens at $53 apiece for the UCD400, could I also add some more capacitance using other caps? How much filtering is to much? Thanks.
Ray
Hi all,
1. If on either the 180 or the 400 if I use an oversized transformer, how could I get around the inrush current at turnon. It seems $69 for the softstart module might be a bit much.
2. How much is to much? I am at the moment planning to use 2 10000 caps in parallel. Without foing wacko on the supply, using Jensens at $53 apiece for the UCD400, could I also add some more capacitance using other caps? How much filtering is to much? Thanks.
Ray
Hi Ray,
These questions would be better asked in say the 180 or 400 threads I think, because they aren't at all geared towards modifying the modules or getting the most out of them.
These questions have been answered a few times already in those threads too.
You can obviously build your own soft start or use an equivalent from someone else.
In terms of safety it's best to buy one. You can find some that are cheaper.
I would not add other caps in parallel to the Jensen's, anymore than I'd put water in my gas tank.
These questions would be better asked in say the 180 or 400 threads I think, because they aren't at all geared towards modifying the modules or getting the most out of them.
These questions have been answered a few times already in those threads too.
You can obviously build your own soft start or use an equivalent from someone else.
In terms of safety it's best to buy one. You can find some that are cheaper.
I would not add other caps in parallel to the Jensen's, anymore than I'd put water in my gas tank.
classd4sure said:
Why not? I only wonder because BHC says in T-net datasheet:
"TNC technology can be combined with Slit Foil technology to
produce the ultimate audio capacitor."
http://www.bhc.co.uk/pdf/ALN20S.pdf
I am not sure if they mean paralleling or maybe something else?
I have T-net caps in my UCD and i am interested to try parallel conventional caps with them when i am trying amp with my woofers (i want add total capacitance and do not want to spend much more money to additional T-nets)
Especially for BHC T-nets! Because they sound so perfect. I can't imagine the cap you'd possibly want to combine it with.
If you re-read the statement you quoted you'll see that it's easy to misunderstand... I did the same myself. Note the key word "technology".. and their T-networks already include slit foil technology, you can't get them without it as far as I know, that's likely why they have a very slight edge in neutrality over the Jensen 4 pole caps, which don't have slit foil technology.
Luckily for you, if your concern is with sub woofers... who cares? Add whatever cap you like.
If you re-read the statement you quoted you'll see that it's easy to misunderstand... I did the same myself. Note the key word "technology".. and their T-networks already include slit foil technology, you can't get them without it as far as I know, that's likely why they have a very slight edge in neutrality over the Jensen 4 pole caps, which don't have slit foil technology.
Luckily for you, if your concern is with sub woofers... who cares? Add whatever cap you like.
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