Hi DHAA,
Post #212: "...install a second copy of Hornresp so I can easily compare similar designs side-by-side..."
According to David McBean that is not a supported mode of operation.
Regards,
Post #212: "...install a second copy of Hornresp so I can easily compare similar designs side-by-side..."
According to David McBean that is not a supported mode of operation.
Regards,
Two copies of Hornresp on one computer . . . .
I did the install on one of my home computers, and it seems to work fine. They are different versions of HR, and each in a separate folder. I have done this with other apps before and have never had a problem if I keep them totally separate.
For what it's worth though, I have an unusual computer setup. I am running HR in a VirtualBox (virtualization software) that is running WindowsXP, which is running within Mac OSX on a Hackintosh (Gigabyte/Intel DIY PC).
I will play around with it some more and if I experience any problems I will make an update.
I did the install on one of my home computers, and it seems to work fine. They are different versions of HR, and each in a separate folder. I have done this with other apps before and have never had a problem if I keep them totally separate.
For what it's worth though, I have an unusual computer setup. I am running HR in a VirtualBox (virtualization software) that is running WindowsXP, which is running within Mac OSX on a Hackintosh (Gigabyte/Intel DIY PC).
I will play around with it some more and if I experience any problems I will make an update.
Sounds almost too good
Hi again, no, I am near retirement, no hooligan. Thanks for the reply DHAA - I wondered if you just pretend to be a grumpy grandpa for fun. Of course I would like to see the hornresp data You used. I have just spent 2 hours making a spreadsheet from the BLH paper of Martin King. The resulting horn would not fit into a room. So I am ready for a doable alternative. And since some of my best friends are carpenters ( not Karen and Richard...), I can make sawdust on good machines... Have calculated a vented box of 86 Liters, it would perform well. Does someone believe the specs of the horn-enclosure of B&C ? Let's hear what you would do with that driver. It is inferior to the IPAL models, but look at the price difference. Otherwise I will mount the 18PS on an open baffle, along with the curved OB array. Have a nice evening and thanks ! Sorry, could not read the other posts yet, but then, who wants to know a newbies opinion ? Marc
Hi again, no, I am near retirement, no hooligan. Thanks for the reply DHAA - I wondered if you just pretend to be a grumpy grandpa for fun. Of course I would like to see the hornresp data You used. I have just spent 2 hours making a spreadsheet from the BLH paper of Martin King. The resulting horn would not fit into a room. So I am ready for a doable alternative. And since some of my best friends are carpenters ( not Karen and Richard...), I can make sawdust on good machines... Have calculated a vented box of 86 Liters, it would perform well. Does someone believe the specs of the horn-enclosure of B&C ? Let's hear what you would do with that driver. It is inferior to the IPAL models, but look at the price difference. Otherwise I will mount the 18PS on an open baffle, along with the curved OB array. Have a nice evening and thanks ! Sorry, could not read the other posts yet, but then, who wants to know a newbies opinion ? Marc
several copies of hornresp
just use it in a couple of virtual machines like virtualbox, works perfectly with me and can be cloned indefinitely. I just wish there was an ipad version, so I could sim in front of the fireplace...
just use it in a couple of virtual machines like virtualbox, works perfectly with me and can be cloned indefinitely. I just wish there was an ipad version, so I could sim in front of the fireplace...
Well Marc, I get my prostate checked every year, is than enough evidence?
As far as the SS18 plans I used for with your B&C driver, check out post #1970:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/170771-single-sheet-th-challenge-197.html#post3600952
If I remember the story correctly, this is just a budget prototype JBell came up with for the $99 Dayton Pro 18" woofer. But your B&C looks like it would work pretty well also, probably better. Contact the Trackzilla fella and he will provide you with the HR Data Export and a SketchUp drawing.
Interesting idea. I will have to check into that. Thanks for the idea.
Whether it's supported or not, I'm doing it. I have four copies of Hornresp on my computer, most of them are different versions. (I'm lazy about updating and the updates come so fast.) At times I run all four of them at the same time. Right now I've got two instances of Hornresp running. I've never had any problems at all running multiples.
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the biggest issue is that THs are excursion hungry (their excursion maxima usually occurs within the bandpass). Generally they work best with a driver with a healthy portion of xmax, and a higher than one would think FS (higher fs, stiffer suspension, better mid band excursion control).
I personally have spent VERY little time trying to design tapped horns. I've been sticking with front loaded horns because
A: this forum is very tapped horn centric, there are plenty of amazing designs published here. One could take their pick of literally dozens of great designs (Keystone, TH18, SS15, SS18, PAL12, 1 million bjorno designs, THAM, Othorn, Gjallerhorn, and many more)
B: I have an addiction to bass. even for "small crowds" (200 to 300), I'm not the kind of sound reinforcer who brings 1 or 2 subs. bare minimum I'll be dragging out 4, at which point the benefits of FLHs start to become apparent (this really happens around 8). They have better excursion control in the pass band, but require larger stacks to fill in the low low end.
C: If I do happen to make an amazing design by some stroke of luck and many hours of research, I want to be able to capitalize on it, and not feel like I'm taking advantage of Tom Danleys (pending) patents.
And you are totally right. the folding part is the hard part lollll.
I personally have spent VERY little time trying to design tapped horns. I've been sticking with front loaded horns because
A: this forum is very tapped horn centric, there are plenty of amazing designs published here. One could take their pick of literally dozens of great designs (Keystone, TH18, SS15, SS18, PAL12, 1 million bjorno designs, THAM, Othorn, Gjallerhorn, and many more)
B: I have an addiction to bass. even for "small crowds" (200 to 300), I'm not the kind of sound reinforcer who brings 1 or 2 subs. bare minimum I'll be dragging out 4, at which point the benefits of FLHs start to become apparent (this really happens around 8). They have better excursion control in the pass band, but require larger stacks to fill in the low low end.
C: If I do happen to make an amazing design by some stroke of luck and many hours of research, I want to be able to capitalize on it, and not feel like I'm taking advantage of Tom Danleys (pending) patents.
And you are totally right. the folding part is the hard part lollll.
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The same (other than higher FS for a given Fb ) is true for bass reflex and front loaded horns, the excursion maxima in the pass band is always above Fb or Fc, and all need HP filters below.
More excursion = more output, TH can work just fine with limited excursion.
When I was selling a variety of used subs, a pair of 15" FLH sold first, TH with Kappa Pro 10 (only 3.2mm) sold next, and Lab 12 BR (which went almost octave lower) last.
The dual 10" TH was half the size of the FLH, and had nearly the same kick impact.
If you feel better lugging around multiple bigger, heavier cabinets to achieve the same impact, go for it!
Art
I've very small amounts of interest in kick *impact*. mostly just 25 (at the VERY lowest) to 60hz continuous output at large quantities.
what I meant to say is that *generally* the in band excursion maxima has a higher peak (driver has no rear chamber, lacks the acoustic padding of said rear chamber) within the band When you appropriatly employ a hipass filter. you run out of excursion in the pass band first, vs with a front loaded horn, you generally run out of excursion around the hipass frequency first. This allows for much gentler slope hipass filters in tapped horns as we are actually trying to pad down the mid pass band excursion maxima at the same time (which can be interpreted as a positive or negative honestly).
what I meant to say is that *generally* the in band excursion maxima has a higher peak (driver has no rear chamber, lacks the acoustic padding of said rear chamber) within the band When you appropriatly employ a hipass filter. you run out of excursion in the pass band first, vs with a front loaded horn, you generally run out of excursion around the hipass frequency first. This allows for much gentler slope hipass filters in tapped horns as we are actually trying to pad down the mid pass band excursion maxima at the same time (which can be interpreted as a positive or negative honestly).
We (being me) do not share your view regarding HP filters, I like a 24 BW a few Hz below Fb or Fc, regardless of whether I'm running BR, TH, or FLH.
If I'm running over Xmax I turn it down, I don't want the HP reducing the bottom end, in all three types the maximum "woof" is possible at the low excursion minima.
for the design posted a 24 db filter enables a 30hz hipass, but power input must be reduced to around 42 volts. this nets you a 1 db gain between 40 and 50 and a 1.5 db loss above that point (and you are still hitting xmax in the passband at 45hz).
Sine143 (aka Young Lad), I am not going to argue with the points you have made, but I will just give you one thing to think about.
Sure, a guy my age spending his time learning to design tapped horns might sound stupid, but for me it is a better use of my time than sitting around watching TV, eating potato chips and going brain dead.
For me, DIY is not about saving money, it is really about learning about how things work. I have had a life-time of DIY project in a wide variety of subject areas, and if you were to put a dollar amount of the time I put in researching and mastering these topics, I have lost serious money.
But what I have gained in knowledge I can't really put a price on. I have been able to fix cars that broke down in the middle of the forest, administered first-aid to people in remote locations, fixed household emergencies before they turned into an disaster, and musically, I have been able to fix something in the middle of a gig, where otherwise that would have been the end of the show.
I fully realize I will not build the ultimate tapped horn - I am willing to settle for a highly mediocre one. But once I know what I am doing, I will teach my sons, and their children, and we will go on a hellacious cabinet building spree this summer. I have been doing things like this all my life, and the relationship I have with my kids and grandkids is remarkable. Learning keeps me young and excited about life.
So, whatever you are into, be it folded horn, tapped horns, or even french horns - learn as much as you can. If I hadn't had some education in physics, electronics, drafting, and woodworking when I was younger - I wouldn't even begin to comprehend some of the information I have been given here. There is almost nothing I have learned in my life that I regret taking the time to learn. So, I am not sure what you history of DIY projects is, but the fact that you are here is a good sign you are doing some serious thinking and building. Good luck on your journey.
(side note: I am at a high risk of acquiring Alzheimer's disease for two independent reasons, so I am trying to keep my brain as active as I can so it doesn't seize-up on me.)
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dont get me wrong DHAA, I'm not saying you shouldnt pursue whatever it is your after.
I was just trying to underscore my lack of experience with tapped horns and personal reasoning.
the great part of DIY is you get to do it yourself, rather than have someone else do it for you (and design it yourself too).
for all I know you WILL design the ultimate tapped horn.
I'm not here to argue at all, in fact just trying to lend some insight. obviously there will be differing opinons (and honestly, most of the time i'll be wrong 😛), but its not about the argument, its about the collective knowledge that surfaces and is put to use.
I was just trying to underscore my lack of experience with tapped horns and personal reasoning.
the great part of DIY is you get to do it yourself, rather than have someone else do it for you (and design it yourself too).
for all I know you WILL design the ultimate tapped horn.
I'm not here to argue at all, in fact just trying to lend some insight. obviously there will be differing opinons (and honestly, most of the time i'll be wrong 😛), but its not about the argument, its about the collective knowledge that surfaces and is put to use.
Hey, arguments are fully encourage here. It means people are thinking, not just accepting things. The knowledge some of these guys who are helping me have is remarkable - and they are obsessed with learning more.
So, it sound like you know Hornresp pretty well, and seem to have the PA thing going on. And the fact that you are browsing this particular forum must mean you have some desire to learn more about tapped horns. So, I hereby challenge you to design one of your own. Go back to post #1, absorb the same fine guidance I have been given, and let's see who can get one folded first.
Heck, I will even give you a head start and name it for you:
The Sinusoid Resonant Repetitive Oscillator
On Your Mark . . . Get Set . . . Go!
Hi DHAA,
Just be aware that if you are running two copies of Hornresp, copy 1 cannot access a record created by copy 2, and vice versa.
The two installations are completely independent - they do not share a common data file.
Kind regards,
David
Hello David, thanks for stopping by to verify what is going on. The situation you mentioned is fine with me though. My second copy of HR only has a few files that I am using for comparison purposes.
Also, I just realized I forgot to thank you for your previous comments on how to save driver data info as a separate entity. I have been doing that and it works great for my purposes. Thank you Sir.
@ DHAA : age question approved, my values are WNL too ;^) Hornresp : several copies of HR on the same physical machine is messy, virtual machines on a Linux host is the way to go. Mr McBean seems to work with Windows only. Thanks for the link to Trackzilla, yes, this looks very promising. I was afraid that I needed different drivers for a decent result... Thanks a lot !
Sounds even more messy and wasteful of resources to me. Not only does the computer have to run a separate copy of HornResp, it has to run a separate copy of an OS to do it.
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