Open waveguided dipolar driver can sound better at home because has potential of less stored energy. I haven't checked different kind of compression drivers like ringradiators. I did comparison between Seas DXT (near field) and typical old fashioned compression driver with titanium diaphragm in OSWG and waveguide IMHO lack fine details. I haven't compared side by side with horn like JMLC. Waveguide is made of 3-4mm fiberglass and now I experiment with polymer sound damping (3mm thick) instead of a bitumen.
I only can speculate (but thats what I like to do the most anyway 😉 )
From how I see it, a diffraction alignment device can be optimized towards several targets.
There are the usual targets for horns like max eff, or low freq loading, or CD pattern, or lowest diffraction (which turned out to be basically "sales speech"), or to align diffraction in terms of minimizing looped reflections or smooth sound field, or, or, or....
So "horn loading" is quite a field and even more so if you look at designs to be "sort of horns" like tapped horns or TM right away, or, or, or
but with what is usually meant to be horns - or what Badman and jzagaja are aiming for - I'd say you at lest get:
- less distortion due to less excursion due to "horn loading" (at least where it significantly occurs)
- the benefits of higher SPL (as such and also in terms of less thermal distortion)
- a radiating pattern you may be after
These are all differences to direct radiators that *must* change sonic presentation (you know, "how much" is the never ending story)
If you compare „a horn“ driven by an AMT verus compression driver, the benefit of an AMT may be the close to ideal planar wavefront being released into the horn (at least this theoretically makes simulation more easy)
The other advantage I see with AMT as drivers for horns is the absence (or minimization) of looped reflections from the driver itself.
In the horn honk thread those looped reflections at relative short delay times showed up quite significant.
It *should* be possible to get low values there with AMT.
One big drawback of real world AMT's driving horns is their non circular foot print combined with relatively large starting appreture (throat size) and the large aspect ration (horizontal to vetical).
So – all in all I'm curious about Badman's findings and what people will report on their findings with jzagaja's latest
Michael
From how I see it, a diffraction alignment device can be optimized towards several targets.
There are the usual targets for horns like max eff, or low freq loading, or CD pattern, or lowest diffraction (which turned out to be basically "sales speech"), or to align diffraction in terms of minimizing looped reflections or smooth sound field, or, or, or....
So "horn loading" is quite a field and even more so if you look at designs to be "sort of horns" like tapped horns or TM right away, or, or, or
but with what is usually meant to be horns - or what Badman and jzagaja are aiming for - I'd say you at lest get:
- less distortion due to less excursion due to "horn loading" (at least where it significantly occurs)
- the benefits of higher SPL (as such and also in terms of less thermal distortion)
- a radiating pattern you may be after
These are all differences to direct radiators that *must* change sonic presentation (you know, "how much" is the never ending story)
If you compare „a horn“ driven by an AMT verus compression driver, the benefit of an AMT may be the close to ideal planar wavefront being released into the horn (at least this theoretically makes simulation more easy)
The other advantage I see with AMT as drivers for horns is the absence (or minimization) of looped reflections from the driver itself.
In the horn honk thread those looped reflections at relative short delay times showed up quite significant.
It *should* be possible to get low values there with AMT.
One big drawback of real world AMT's driving horns is their non circular foot print combined with relatively large starting appreture (throat size) and the large aspect ration (horizontal to vetical).
So – all in all I'm curious about Badman's findings and what people will report on their findings with jzagaja's latest
Michael
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I think the idea of horn loading a big AMT drivers is great! I have been using the Beyma AMT TPL-150H (the horn loaded version) for some time now, and to my ears it sounds incredible - much more natural and detailed than the compression drivers I have tried so far (e.g., no more over-pronounced s- and t-sounds on female voices). The drawback is that the Beyma TPL-150H only loads with controlled directivity down to 1300 Hz. I would really like to take the qualities of the TPL an actave or so down in frequency (e.g. down to 600 Hz). I wish Beyma would make a Giant TPL!!
jzagaja: How does the AMT driver you are using sound down low (it seems to load down to 6-700 Hz)?
Thanks!
Best regards
Peter
Hi jzagaja,
Thanks for replying! I actually meant the AMT driver when mounted on the horn (maybe I should have stated it more clearly - sorry!). Please keep us updated on using the Horn loaded AMT🙂
Best regards
Peter
AMT Waveguide Beyma TPL150
Hi
i am also very interested in this topic , particularly in combining the Beyma TPL150 w/ a waveguide .
i contacted jzagaja and he told me that the waveguides he develops might fit the Beyma AMT driver .i am stil trying to find out the dimensions of the TPL150 without faceplate .
as it seems , the angle of his WG is 20/90 .
the WG from Beyma is 30/80 .
i am wondering if jzagaja WG is actually a viable alternative to the Beyma horn or perhaps there is nothing to be gained .
Peter, did you try other horns besides the one from Beyma w/ the TPL150 ?
jzagaja if you could provide more information about the progress of your WG and background for R&D .
malcolm
Hi
i am also very interested in this topic , particularly in combining the Beyma TPL150 w/ a waveguide .
i contacted jzagaja and he told me that the waveguides he develops might fit the Beyma AMT driver .i am stil trying to find out the dimensions of the TPL150 without faceplate .
as it seems , the angle of his WG is 20/90 .
the WG from Beyma is 30/80 .
i am wondering if jzagaja WG is actually a viable alternative to the Beyma horn or perhaps there is nothing to be gained .
Peter, did you try other horns besides the one from Beyma w/ the TPL150 ?
jzagaja if you could provide more information about the progress of your WG and background for R&D .
malcolm
Funny things is now I see my design is exactly as wide as Beyma. Coincidence. Roundover seems larger in GAMT90 Customer asked for low CTC spacing and 120deg coverage. Actually it is 110x65. Throat isn't OS type but mouth is from JMLC. Differences:
1) Premium finish
2) Dipole
3) Snap-in (easy disjoint)
1) Premium finish
2) Dipole
3) Snap-in (easy disjoint)
I've been talking about prototypes today with Autotech. I think before Christmas first prototypes should be available. We are waiting for some parts needed - this is a modular system.
AMT Waveguide for Beyma TPL150
Thanks Michael for the dimensions.
may i ask if you are using the Beyma drivers ?
jzagaja , would this work with your waveguide ?
can you explain which parts are modular ?
malcolm
Thanks Michael for the dimensions.
may i ask if you are using the Beyma drivers ?
jzagaja , would this work with your waveguide ?
can you explain which parts are modular ?
malcolm
Yes Beyma TPL-150 can work with GAMT90 - she's a bit thicker (3-4mm).
Modular - two snap-in halves for the AMT and bass modules at the top or/and bottom mounted in a same way as those halves.
Modular - two snap-in halves for the AMT and bass modules at the top or/and bottom mounted in a same way as those halves.
jzagaja,
i am not sure i understand your last post right ,
how are the bass drivers mounted the same way as the snap in halves for the AMT ?
i am not sure i understand your last post right ,
how are the bass drivers mounted the same way as the snap in halves for the AMT ?
Actualy I'm happy to see the idea of dipole horn loaded AMT to spread out and even becoming commercially available
🙂
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/100392-beyond-ariel-115.html#post1837992
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/100392-beyond-ariel-115.html#post1839049
🙂
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/100392-beyond-ariel-115.html#post1837992
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/100392-beyond-ariel-115.html#post1839049
jzagaja , is your horn on the front and the back as Michael describes ?
Michael, do you have photos of your horn built .
it looks very interesting .
malcolm
Michael, do you have photos of your horn built .
it looks very interesting .
malcolm
Hi hum4god,
No, I did not try other waveguides than the one Beyma provides. But I would be very interested in knowing how the Beyma TPL-150 would do in a considerably larger waveguide🙂 It would be great to be able to take the qualities of the Beyma AMT further down in frequency while preserving the horizontal dispersion control. With the Beyma waveguide the 80 degree constant directivity in the horizontal plane only holds down to app. 1200-1300 Hz.
Best regards
Peter
Nothing I'd like to show..
😉
Scale up what you see here and you basically get it:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/159731-beautiful-swingin-speaker.html
Horns in general are pretty limited band width device.
AMT on (dipole) horn is no exception here.
🙂
Michael
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