markus76 said:
I said in my first review that it was a great deal and it is. If low cost were the only criteria it would win out hands down. But there can be "value" all along the performance scale, "value" doesn't mean "low cost" or "low performance". It means the lowest cost for the desired performance. I believe that my products are that.
markus76 said:
Topic of this thread, EconoWave is an entry-level platform for exploring the principles Earl teaches, which anybody can build for ~$200, and plenty of DIYers have done so. Even as such, it is not "low performance" by any means, exceeding Earl's own acceptance criteria, and in fact, bettering the performance of his product offerings, in many respects. As example, see the off-axis vertical polars I posted at #s 1137 & 1138 -- does anyone question whether, even in this minimalist implementation, it is CD in the oblique, where Earl states "Rectangular horns have poor response...?"
Earl now concedes that his criticisms of EconoWave's frequency response, directivity, and asymmetry were unwarranted, and we are left with subjective performance evaluations, in which instance, such statements as, "If you like harsh sound, you'll like the JBLs" amount to little more than transparent self-promotion on Earl's part, especially considering that he never bothered to listen to them.
No, we never expected that Earl would like these as well as his own product, but by the same token, the disparagement he continues to dispense here is unsupported by his own data, and, at best, gratuitous....
Well then start exploring those principles instead of continuing this crusade. Earl put a lot of effort into his speakers and now he tries to make a living from that. What's wrong with this? You just jumped on the wagon to build something that is cheaper but comparable because of prefabricated parts. A lot of other people have already payed the bill. What does JBL charge for a speaker that uses the EconoWaves' $10 waveguide?
Best, Markus
Best, Markus
Attacking me is going nowhere, I guarantee.
I don't sell speakers.
This is diyAudio, not the "Buy Geddes Speakers" forum he would like it to be.
To the extent that Earl promotes his products with this short-sighted approach in an open forum, his assertions are subject to scrutiny and challenge.
By some measures, EconoWave has done more to broaden the customer base for Earl's principles AND his products than all of his own efforts to date.
In the little more than a year since Earl gratuitously condemned it, E'Wave has accrued more posts and views on AK, a forum with half the membership, than all of Earl's threads here combined, appeared in the national press, and has over 10,000 views on U-Tube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lw7pTwpx0K0
Plus as many or more on the Wired.com website video:
http://howto.wired.com/wiki/Rev_Up_Vintage_Speakers
I don't sell speakers.
This is diyAudio, not the "Buy Geddes Speakers" forum he would like it to be.
To the extent that Earl promotes his products with this short-sighted approach in an open forum, his assertions are subject to scrutiny and challenge.
By some measures, EconoWave has done more to broaden the customer base for Earl's principles AND his products than all of his own efforts to date.
In the little more than a year since Earl gratuitously condemned it, E'Wave has accrued more posts and views on AK, a forum with half the membership, than all of Earl's threads here combined, appeared in the national press, and has over 10,000 views on U-Tube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lw7pTwpx0K0
Plus as many or more on the Wired.com website video:
http://howto.wired.com/wiki/Rev_Up_Vintage_Speakers
""If you like harsh sound, you'll like the JBLs" amount to little more than transparent self-promotion on Earl's part, especially considering that he never bothered to listen to them."
Lets be fair here, have you yourself listened to a pair of his waveguides??
Maybe you should. It seems to me there is a lot of assumptions being posted where a simple listening test would put things to bed.
Rob🙂
Lets be fair here, have you yourself listened to a pair of his waveguides??
Maybe you should. It seems to me there is a lot of assumptions being posted where a simple listening test would put things to bed.
Rob🙂
Robh3606 said:
Hi, Rob!
Ostensibly, this thread is about the data.
I can link to far more subjective endorsements for EconoWave than Earl has for his products, but that's not the point. I have never disparaged Earl's speakers. Anywhere. EVER.
What Dave Newman, who has heard both, and more, said:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1839146#post1839146
The contention that Geddes is best and all else sucks is patently self-serving and untenable; there are larger purposes to pursue....
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1839146#post1839146
The contention that Geddes is best and all else sucks is patently self-serving and untenable; there are larger purposes to pursue....
Looking at the You tube link it all became clear. The very person who claims that my posts are self serving and gratuitous just so happens to sell crossover components for the EconoHorn (see the link). What a coincidence! I guess that the comments are not so unbiased after all.
ZilchLab said:
I'd agree that Earl's assertions are most certainly subject to scrutiny (as of course everyone's statements are).
But the diyAudio wannabe "Buy Geddes Speakers" forum thing?
diyAudio has a long tradition of integrating marketing and basic discussion by more commercially-oriented members - nothing new there. Moreover it's fairly obvious that marketing is pretty low on Earl's priorities "list" (at least with respect to forum activities).
ScottG,
I thinkt Earl is not too bad in internet marketing. Do you think Zilch is the one responsible for the interest in the EconoWave?
Best, Markus
I thinkt Earl is not too bad in internet marketing. Do you think Zilch is the one responsible for the interest in the EconoWave?
Best, Markus
markus76 said:
I don't know what Zilch is responsible for. For the most part though he has kept his discussion to Earl's paper.
As far as Earl's internet marketing, I've not commented on that - but I have commented on his marketing *here*, and no - IMO it isn't good.
"Ostensibly, this thread is about the data."
Hello Zilch
Understood but a simple listening test would put the whole vertical lobing issue to bed. You can either wait for data or just go have a listen.
That was my point.
Rob🙂
Hello Zilch
Understood but a simple listening test would put the whole vertical lobing issue to bed. You can either wait for data or just go have a listen.
That was my point.
Rob🙂
markus76 said:
Ah.. 😉
The "net" as a whole is pretty broad though, and I'm sure there are areas where he might well be doing fantastically. 🙂
gedlee said:
Oh, YAH, that's it for SURE!
It's all open source; I don't sell the components, which come from Parts Express, or the typical DIYer's parts stock.
Forgive me for designing and offering an empty PC board, the layout of which is available in the AK thread, for those who would prefer the convenience of having one, for $10.
[Perhaps I could do the same for your products and become rich beyond all imaginings.... 😉 ]
Robh3606 said:
Markus tells us the null is audible in his Nathans, and is asking here that it be fixed....
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