Horn vs. Waveguide

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#942
"Thank you for this, but I believe we have already established that this is not a Geddes innovation; he has told us so himself. "

Why are you throwing in red herrings?

AFAIK Geddes didn't claim credit for this idea, and even if he did it's irrelevant to the importance or lack thereof of the on-axis fissure (why not continue the synonymization).

About which I agree with Sheldon, the same ground has been covered ad nauseum.
 
#944
gedlee said:


Exactly where did I do that?
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Bullet #6, but don't go yanking it down, now, as we're not done with that one yet.


gedlee said:

Are you quibly with "would not have" and "substantially elliminated" or "minimized" becaues that is very petty indeed. Its a sign of a bankrupt argument when one has to resort to those kinds of insignificant distinctions.
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That remains to be seen, of course, and I, for one, am hoping you'll be able to do as well as JBL apparently has with it's implementation of elliptical oblate spheroid waveguides.
 
#946

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#948
Why don't we organize listening sessions with people who have the waveguides?? I for one would love to hear a pair. Maybe we could even compare a couple of horns in a live one on one. It would be up to the owners if they were open for a few guests.

Rob🙂
 
#949
ZilchLab said:


By "not mainstream," I did not mean not known, rather, that it is only infrequently practiced at home, and has limited applicability in sound reinforcement.
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I didn't write that to discredit Earl. I wrote it in response to your "not mainstream" argument. Like others, though, I'm getting tired of your arguing for the sake of arguing, so I'm making use of the ignor button.
 
#950
The on-axis dip is a non-issue in the Summas because the intended use is to listen to them off axis. If a user chooses to listen to them on axis, the issue is with their ability to comprehend simple placement instructions. It's akin to getting dipole speakers, jamming up against the wall, claiming that dipoles have issues because it's common to place speakers near a wall.
 
#951
Robh3606 said:
Why don't we organize listening sessions with people who have the waveguides?? I for one would love to hear a pair. Maybe we could even compare a couple of horns in a live one on one. It would be up to the owners if they were open for a few guests.

Rob🙂
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If anyone in the Pacific NW knows of an audio show coming up, I could probably shoehorn the Summas and my set of JBLs into my GF's wagon.
 
#952
pooge said:


I didn't write that to discredit Earl. I wrote it in response to your "not mainstream" argument. Like others, though, I'm getting tired of your arguing for the sake of arguing, so I'm making use of the ignor button.
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Please take a moment to review the topic of this thread, "Horn vs. Waveguide," not "Horns," in general, rather, a particular "horn," the one used in a popular project on another forum, which Earl evaluated for us, and which I am representing here.

I have tried for over a year to elicit a rational, objective discussion of his findings, and as consequence, have been characterized as rude, disrespectful, contentious, argumentative, and a troll by some who apparently do not want this thread's very subject debated.

As SY observed, there is a wealth of information disclosure occurring in this discourse, and more forthcoming, quite likely, if everyone were only to focus on the issues rather than the personalities of the participants, and that of the significance of the OS's "hole" is one which Earl considered worthy of highlighting among major points in his report. There are others....
 
#953
"I have tried for over a year to elicit a rational, objective discussion of his findings..."

More of a another same.

If you haven't got what you wanted after a year of trying, what makes you think the outcome will change with no change in tactics?

I have to agree with the characterization of " rude, disrespectful, contentious, argumentative, and a troll".

Much of your posting is taking potshots at Dr. Geddes with slights and innuendo, hardly what could be called rational and objective.

And I strongly disagree that no rational, objective discussion has occurred.
 
#954
noah katz said:
"I have tried for over a year to elicit a rational, objective discussion of his findings..."

And I strongly disagree that no rational, objective discussion has occurred.
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I did not say that no such discussion has occurred. You're bypassing the "of his findings" part. Has anyone other than myself even MENTIONED any of his specific findings, let alone discussed them, here?

Pick one. Start at the top, perhaps.
 
#955
Re: Where to get the QSC?

badman said:
The QSC looks pretty appealing....
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QSC has a very cool part ordering site

http://www.qscaudio.com/support/technical_support/schems3.htm

Click on the Hpr152i parts link for the big square horn

http://www.qscaudio.com/support/resources/parts/HPR152i_parts_list.htm

then you can buy almost all the parts for the speaker...drivers and amps too. Build a DIY version if you want

Click on Hpr122i for the 10" round waveguide
http://www.qscaudio.com/support/resources/parts/HPR122i.htm

They are extremely cheap like the JBL option from audio karma and they might just have better measurements...we will know soon enough.
 
#956
That is indeed a very cool site. The driver openings appear to be 1.4" and 1.75" respectively for the two horns though, which changes my usage (I was thinking of using a JBL 2426H)

Any adaptor is naturally going to compromise the throat geometry.

Thanks for the links, not too many places sell direct.
 
#959
catapult said:


Actually, it's not if you zoom in on it, although you could say it's an RCH louder at 16K. 🙂 And this is a 90x90 which should be a 'worst case.'
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The 0° curve is aligned to 0db, so what appear as a peak around 12khz for all the off axis curves is in fact a dip in the on axis one.
By the way, this dip can be seen on the on axis response curve:
http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/support/getfile.aspx?doctype=3&docid=1078

I do not say that this waveguide is bad because of that dip!
In fact I ordered a pair and I am going to use them as a tweeter.
I find its directivity control very impresive in the UHF.

I also ordered a pair of these AC16 speakers for my compagny 😀
 
#960
badman said:
That is indeed a very cool site. The driver openings appear to be 1.4" and 1.75" respectively for the two horns though, which changes my usage (I was thinking of using a JBL 2426H)

Any adaptor is naturally going to compromise the throat geometry.

Thanks for the links, not too many places sell direct.
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Those are diaphragm sizes. They are all 1" throats. The big square one takes a standard 2-bolt CD. The round one has standard bolt spacing but the bolts screw into the horn so you'll either need to use the QSC driver OEM'd from Celestion (looks decent but has a high Fs) or build something to hold a standard driver on.
 
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