All,
just wanted to let you know this was not my decision only, i consulted other moderators and the site owner before i took action.
After the evidence i have seen this night, possible accuses of over-reacting, being partial, HH being my pet enemy will bounce off from me like water from waxed fabric.
I must say, this was a big disppointment and i still sick from it. I had the honest opinion HarryHaller had improved and i was about tot write him so in private.
Then:
today i observed Grey Rollins posting again in the AlephX thread. I know, he left in a huff and a major part of this huff was caused by HH.
To those who want HH back:
I am certain Jason reads this too. Should HH allowed to come back, I am quite certain Grey Rollins will leave and never come back. I am 100% certain i will leave and never come back. me? i am not that important. My contribution to this forum board is nothing to compared to Grey's one (i may be a major pain in the *** to some of you anyway, maybe many of you.) But Grey Rollins has made a huge contribution to make this place the way it is, so i sense it, so anyone asked continues to assure.
I have my priorities targeted to quality, not quantity. Quality also AFA constructive attitude is concerned.
Grey Rollins coming back? Or HH coming back?
Take your pick, folks but be aware you cannot have both. 🙄
just wanted to let you know this was not my decision only, i consulted other moderators and the site owner before i took action.
After the evidence i have seen this night, possible accuses of over-reacting, being partial, HH being my pet enemy will bounce off from me like water from waxed fabric.
I must say, this was a big disppointment and i still sick from it. I had the honest opinion HarryHaller had improved and i was about tot write him so in private.
Then:
today i observed Grey Rollins posting again in the AlephX thread. I know, he left in a huff and a major part of this huff was caused by HH.
To those who want HH back:
I am certain Jason reads this too. Should HH allowed to come back, I am quite certain Grey Rollins will leave and never come back. I am 100% certain i will leave and never come back. me? i am not that important. My contribution to this forum board is nothing to compared to Grey's one (i may be a major pain in the *** to some of you anyway, maybe many of you.) But Grey Rollins has made a huge contribution to make this place the way it is, so i sense it, so anyone asked continues to assure.
I have my priorities targeted to quality, not quantity. Quality also AFA constructive attitude is concerned.
Grey Rollins coming back? Or HH coming back?
Take your pick, folks but be aware you cannot have both. 🙄
Peter Daniel said:
So, that's why mr w kerr from Australia has only made one
post, which has now disappeared? 😉
Still don't quite get how he (well G Grand) could remove both his
own post and my response the other night? Or why? He fooled
me completely, but that was a harmless and fun joke.
As G Grand, he was actually quite funny. Some of his other
aliases attempted to be funny, but were just irritating and
infantile, mostly making a fool of himself IMHO. The most
well-known ones of his aliases did actually behave quite
bad towards some people. It is quite different to joke with
somebody you know well, it is quite a different thing to joke
with people you don't know, in writing. It is bound to be
misunderstood, especially irony and sarcasm. A little smiley
can make a lot of difference in those cases.
I really don't know quite where I stand in this question. I do
not belong to those who feel myself offended by Harrys aliases.
Irritated sometimes, yes, offended, no. I have rather tried to
return sarcasm with sarcasm. Anyone behaving like this would
probably be banned from almost any moderated forum on the
net. On the other hand, it was with surprise as well as sadness
I read this morning that Harry was behind all this. Not that I
know him, but to me he has appeared very respectable and
credible, with a touch of humour, under the name Harry Haller.
I do agree with those of you think he has contributed very much
under his real (??) name, and some of his postings of schematics
and other things was an important part of the credibility I sensed
when I first found this forum a while back.
Whatever happens to Harrys future on this forum, i will cherish
his contributions in the archives. There are many questions I
never had to ask because Harry had already provided the
answers somewhere, deep in the archives. So Harry, thanks
for the Spice models of 2SJ162/2SK1058 that I never had to ask
you for.
Does anyone really think they would come back after a 6 month ban? This is just a website in case you didnt notice, I am sure he has better things to do then helping us less knowledgable out without this constant threat over his head.
Haldor,
You took that post way too seriously, it was clearly a joke as indicated by the use of smileys, and its a pretty damn funny joke at that.
Conclusion, let HH back if he can bear to come back after this incident.
Haldor,
You took that post way too seriously, it was clearly a joke as indicated by the use of smileys, and its a pretty damn funny joke at that.
Conclusion, let HH back if he can bear to come back after this incident.
Is it really that simple?
Okay, my vote goes for Grey since he has initiated one of the most interesting diy projects ever (the aleph-x of course) and I would be very happy if he would stay among us for putting more of those great ideas in our brains.
---
Holger
Okay, my vote goes for Grey since he has initiated one of the most interesting diy projects ever (the aleph-x of course) and I would be very happy if he would stay among us for putting more of those great ideas in our brains.
---
Holger
Take your pick, folks but be aware you cannot have both.
Why not?
In one instance, the offending poster is banned by force of the moderators.
In the other instance, the offended poster might be simply MIA, by his own choice. His choice.
IMHO, it makes no sense in furthering whatever the discourse, to permanently shut down the forum to anyone. Surely, a timeout trip to the Sin Bin might be in order for HH's past transgressions/antics, but please don't play it as one poster's "worth", off of another's!
I rarely post (usually something stupid), but I've gotten a ton of pure information, technics, entertainment and attitude here. I welcome it all.
All participants contribute here. Even if one has to grow some skin in order to take it all in.
I vote to bring HH back.
Why not?
In one instance, the offending poster is banned by force of the moderators.
In the other instance, the offended poster might be simply MIA, by his own choice. His choice.
IMHO, it makes no sense in furthering whatever the discourse, to permanently shut down the forum to anyone. Surely, a timeout trip to the Sin Bin might be in order for HH's past transgressions/antics, but please don't play it as one poster's "worth", off of another's!
I rarely post (usually something stupid), but I've gotten a ton of pure information, technics, entertainment and attitude here. I welcome it all.
All participants contribute here. Even if one has to grow some skin in order to take it all in.
I vote to bring HH back.
griff said:
Oh really,
Then why did it follow within a few hours of my private email to him. Would you like someone calling you a fool when you had said something reasonable and accurate?
Icons don't change what you say. And only a coward hides behind made up names while trying to smear other peoples reputations.
And HH is continuing to try and sneak back in using fake names. He just posted a few minute ago.
Phil
Griff,
I'm not mad at you, but the icons artnyos (HH) used in his attack on me were
"No" "Stupid" and "Spin"
This is supposed to take the sting out of an unprovoked attack with no merit (artnyos and HH had not even posted in this thread up to this point).
It wasn't a joke and if you notice he never answered my reply either. I'm done.
Phil
I'm not mad at you, but the icons artnyos (HH) used in his attack on me were
"No" "Stupid" and "Spin"
This is supposed to take the sting out of an unprovoked attack with no merit (artnyos and HH had not even posted in this thread up to this point).
It wasn't a joke and if you notice he never answered my reply either. I'm done.
Phil
Peter Daniel said:
Very funny Peter. No Grey's post didn't feel anything like HH.
Look here, I see Virgil has already been banned: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=66128#post66128
Phil
I haven't really been around long enough to have a say either way, and even if I did this is not a democratic issue. 🙂 But if you're going to ban him you should really just firewall him or make it so you need to confirm registrations via a valid email address. Just an idea 🙂.
Respect each others points of view
Any person whether or not he or she has great knowledge or not and becomes difficult to deal with is a problem. I would venture to say that any person who falls into this category takes things much to seriously and needs to stop and do some role reversing.
Stop and take the other persons role and get to know and respect each other’s point of view. Then, and only then can an honest and fruitful discussions begin. I’m sure that HH has many wonderful things to offer, but his techniques are sometimes hurtful to others. If a problem such as this cannot be corrected then banning is appropriate when other attempts to correct then problem have failed.
As for being humorous, I truly don’t visit this site to be entertained, or to read sly one or two line comments. I much prefer good, accurate and solid technical information.
John Fassotte
Alaskan Audio
Any person whether or not he or she has great knowledge or not and becomes difficult to deal with is a problem. I would venture to say that any person who falls into this category takes things much to seriously and needs to stop and do some role reversing.
Stop and take the other persons role and get to know and respect each other’s point of view. Then, and only then can an honest and fruitful discussions begin. I’m sure that HH has many wonderful things to offer, but his techniques are sometimes hurtful to others. If a problem such as this cannot be corrected then banning is appropriate when other attempts to correct then problem have failed.
As for being humorous, I truly don’t visit this site to be entertained, or to read sly one or two line comments. I much prefer good, accurate and solid technical information.
John Fassotte
Alaskan Audio
In my opinion the rules should be applied and he should stay banned becaus he didn't follow them.
It's that simple.
I am sure that this board is one of the best board in term of noise ratio and it must stay that way.
It's that simple.
I am sure that this board is one of the best board in term of noise ratio and it must stay that way.
One thing that has not been considered by those of you taking
Harrys side in the banning/no banning issue is whether he
really wants or expects to be allowed back on the forum.
He should be fully aware by now that his recent behaviour of
posting under a number of aliases is not taken lightly by the
moderators even if not considering the actual content of the
posts. If he were actually interested in being allowed in again,
he should most likely have seen this thread as an indication that
perhaps there is some hope for him. However, instead of waiting
and see where this leads, he has, after this thread started,
continued to register at least two new aliases. That is hardly
the expected behaviour of someone who truly wants a second
chance. No, I think he has simply got tired of or p****d off by
the forum, for one reason or another, and doesn't care
about being banned. Why he insists on behaving like a 12-year
old and continue posting jokes and insults under various aliases
is another question that can hardly be answered by any, but
possibly those who know him, like Jocko, if even he can.
Probably it boils down to some kind of personal problem, which
I can feel sympathy for, but behaving in the way he has done
recently will not solve such problems. He must look elsewhere
for those solutions.
Harrys side in the banning/no banning issue is whether he
really wants or expects to be allowed back on the forum.
He should be fully aware by now that his recent behaviour of
posting under a number of aliases is not taken lightly by the
moderators even if not considering the actual content of the
posts. If he were actually interested in being allowed in again,
he should most likely have seen this thread as an indication that
perhaps there is some hope for him. However, instead of waiting
and see where this leads, he has, after this thread started,
continued to register at least two new aliases. That is hardly
the expected behaviour of someone who truly wants a second
chance. No, I think he has simply got tired of or p****d off by
the forum, for one reason or another, and doesn't care
about being banned. Why he insists on behaving like a 12-year
old and continue posting jokes and insults under various aliases
is another question that can hardly be answered by any, but
possibly those who know him, like Jocko, if even he can.
Probably it boils down to some kind of personal problem, which
I can feel sympathy for, but behaving in the way he has done
recently will not solve such problems. He must look elsewhere
for those solutions.
quality not quantity
The system does indeed work that way, but that will never stop anyone. If Harry does want to keep posting, he will find a way. There's no way to stop it.
I would like Harry to use his skills for the power of good instead of evil, but he decided not to. Perhaps he will assume a new moniker and start posting quality information again, and use this opportunity as a rebirth? I hope so. But I doubt it will happen.
I found <i>most</i> of Harry's picture posts funny. Actually, very funny. But the evidence I have seen of negative interactions is overwhelming.
Back when Grey was moderating, I was given a choice between quality or quantity, and I chose quantity. The site slowly, and then rapidly, went downhill. People left (no not just Grey and Geoff). Threads filled up with junk. The site almost imploded.
When the new moderation team came into play, the choice was made to move the site back to quality. That's where it started, and what made it unique in the sea of ranting that is most audio forums and newsgroups. Quality has been chosen. It is now being enforced.
If you want a noisy forum, that's fine, go somewhere else. There are a zillion choices. But that's not diyAudio.com. This place is aiming for quality - quality information, quality people, quality attitude. That's not to say boring. Just quality. The difference between picture and playboy.
The mods try to do their best to allow fun and games to still go on, but not at the expense of others. We are here to nurture, not play 2 kool 4 skool. Well, that's the vision anyway.
The system does indeed work that way, but that will never stop anyone. If Harry does want to keep posting, he will find a way. There's no way to stop it.
I would like Harry to use his skills for the power of good instead of evil, but he decided not to. Perhaps he will assume a new moniker and start posting quality information again, and use this opportunity as a rebirth? I hope so. But I doubt it will happen.
I found <i>most</i> of Harry's picture posts funny. Actually, very funny. But the evidence I have seen of negative interactions is overwhelming.
Back when Grey was moderating, I was given a choice between quality or quantity, and I chose quantity. The site slowly, and then rapidly, went downhill. People left (no not just Grey and Geoff). Threads filled up with junk. The site almost imploded.
When the new moderation team came into play, the choice was made to move the site back to quality. That's where it started, and what made it unique in the sea of ranting that is most audio forums and newsgroups. Quality has been chosen. It is now being enforced.
If you want a noisy forum, that's fine, go somewhere else. There are a zillion choices. But that's not diyAudio.com. This place is aiming for quality - quality information, quality people, quality attitude. That's not to say boring. Just quality. The difference between picture and playboy.
The mods try to do their best to allow fun and games to still go on, but not at the expense of others. We are here to nurture, not play 2 kool 4 skool. Well, that's the vision anyway.
Friends don't let their friends become trolls
Smilies and humor do not overcome the fact that trolling is destructive.
Oh and if it has escaped anyone's attention I will state I am greatly prejudiced against trolls
Several of the posts were clear attempts to split wedges between nationalities and to play on international differences - doesn't sound like humor to me - pure and simple trolling.
Five or more additional registrations?? Childish pranks?? Not hardly.
Clearcut taunting of moderaters - Well, maybe you figure they should have to take it because they're making the big bucks - I don't think so!
Do you mean to say that the troll played absolutely no roll in GRollins departure? Who out there will say that he was not a major contributer to this site?
Damage is not easily measured - but it is always there.
Quite possibly many that frequent this site have never been involved in a troll war. Unlikely as it may seem, a troll war could destroy this site to the point of rendering it meaningless. In one previous instance that began much like this - the final result was the old hands pulled out and went encrypted leaving the scant remains to the trolls and their friends - I was on the keyring - but it was never the same - what's left doesn't make a good shadow of what there was before.
It is pretty unlikely that this site operator or just about any other site operator would ever allow his return under
the circumstances that he has created. Frankly, in other places on the net it wouldn't surprise me to see someone take action to get him TOS'd and depending on the location/factors see if they can get him blackballed and denied IP access.
It may seem innocent and small potatoes, particularly if it comes from someone you think well of.
However, it is not to be taken lightly. Not if you value this site.
Quite sincerely and calmer now.
Ken L
Smilies and humor do not overcome the fact that trolling is destructive.
Oh and if it has escaped anyone's attention I will state I am greatly prejudiced against trolls
Several of the posts were clear attempts to split wedges between nationalities and to play on international differences - doesn't sound like humor to me - pure and simple trolling.
Five or more additional registrations?? Childish pranks?? Not hardly.
Clearcut taunting of moderaters - Well, maybe you figure they should have to take it because they're making the big bucks - I don't think so!
Do you mean to say that the troll played absolutely no roll in GRollins departure? Who out there will say that he was not a major contributer to this site?
Damage is not easily measured - but it is always there.
Quite possibly many that frequent this site have never been involved in a troll war. Unlikely as it may seem, a troll war could destroy this site to the point of rendering it meaningless. In one previous instance that began much like this - the final result was the old hands pulled out and went encrypted leaving the scant remains to the trolls and their friends - I was on the keyring - but it was never the same - what's left doesn't make a good shadow of what there was before.
It is pretty unlikely that this site operator or just about any other site operator would ever allow his return under
the circumstances that he has created. Frankly, in other places on the net it wouldn't surprise me to see someone take action to get him TOS'd and depending on the location/factors see if they can get him blackballed and denied IP access.
It may seem innocent and small potatoes, particularly if it comes from someone you think well of.
However, it is not to be taken lightly. Not if you value this site.
Quite sincerely and calmer now.
Ken L
Type A: 50% really valuable (in tech) and 20% really bad (in argument).
Type B: 95% harmless but useless.
If I were forced to choose one of the two types with respect
to the quality, the type A would be mine. I think that better taking
care of the type A is the road to a qualified and valuable forum.
I really hope a wise solution could be made after this review of the case.
Type B: 95% harmless but useless.
If I were forced to choose one of the two types with respect
to the quality, the type A would be mine. I think that better taking
care of the type A is the road to a qualified and valuable forum.
I really hope a wise solution could be made after this review of the case.
Enough Bull-sheiser......
Bernard, just reinstate Harry (if he is interested that is,after this snubbing by you) and promptly.
Thankyou.
Bernard, just reinstate Harry (if he is interested that is,after this snubbing by you) and promptly.
Thankyou.
Right on!
Agreed. The question isn't about quality or quantity of posts. He broke the rules knowingly and repeatedly - there is no excuse. There is no other recourse.
Mark Broker
JBL said:
Agreed. The question isn't about quality or quantity of posts. He broke the rules knowingly and repeatedly - there is no excuse. There is no other recourse.
Mark Broker
Re: quality not quantity
If Harry has by his maners been able to get other people like Grey and Geoff to live this forum.. Then he is on the wrong path...
My english is my second language so i may not be as good as other people to see the fine difference between insult and humor.... So i have some times a bit hard following when people get "hurt" and not...
I think it is fine with a lot moderators.. It keep's people thinking twice people they start posting. But sometimes it is maybe a bit fast to throw people in the SinBin or them to get banned.... I must admit that i was a bit confused when i readed the last thread in SinBin....
So i mailed Dice45 and he had given me a fine answer and a very fast response! And i am satisfied with it! 🙂
When Harry is only on to make other people mad... Then he should think his situation over again... There is also young people around here which maybe would get affraid and go away. They do not deserve this...
I think harry maybe should take a good look at the posts from Nelson Pass, Jocko, Elso, Dice45 to name a few... And then maybe ask nice if he could be a member again.
Just my thoughts
Jason said:
If Harry has by his maners been able to get other people like Grey and Geoff to live this forum.. Then he is on the wrong path...
My english is my second language so i may not be as good as other people to see the fine difference between insult and humor.... So i have some times a bit hard following when people get "hurt" and not...
I think it is fine with a lot moderators.. It keep's people thinking twice people they start posting. But sometimes it is maybe a bit fast to throw people in the SinBin or them to get banned.... I must admit that i was a bit confused when i readed the last thread in SinBin....
So i mailed Dice45 and he had given me a fine answer and a very fast response! And i am satisfied with it! 🙂
When Harry is only on to make other people mad... Then he should think his situation over again... There is also young people around here which maybe would get affraid and go away. They do not deserve this...
I think harry maybe should take a good look at the posts from Nelson Pass, Jocko, Elso, Dice45 to name a few... And then maybe ask nice if he could be a member again.
Just my thoughts
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