And if you'd like a DSD output you'll have to modify the firmware and change the DACs or use other I/Os. (Or use a new DAC with DSD and PCM on the same pins)
News series to come.....
The first 20 unites (my whole stock) were sold and shipped now!
I will start with version 2.0 now, making a slightly modified PCB picking up one of your ideas regarding resampling.
The new unit will have an additional clock input feature. The frequency (256xfs) on that input will determine the output rate (fs) of the S/PDIF signal regardless of the material currently playing. The quality of the injected clock will also define the amount of jitter at the output. This option only could be used with the extended kit.
So first time with this new PCB you will have the chance to improve the jitter performance of the digital S/PDIF output of the Pioneer player!! Using a clock like Tentlabs XO-2 will lead to a far better overall resolution and imaging.
I will keep you informed when the new V2 PCB will be ready for shipping.
Charly
The first 20 unites (my whole stock) were sold and shipped now!
I will start with version 2.0 now, making a slightly modified PCB picking up one of your ideas regarding resampling.
The new unit will have an additional clock input feature. The frequency (256xfs) on that input will determine the output rate (fs) of the S/PDIF signal regardless of the material currently playing. The quality of the injected clock will also define the amount of jitter at the output. This option only could be used with the extended kit.
So first time with this new PCB you will have the chance to improve the jitter performance of the digital S/PDIF output of the Pioneer player!! Using a clock like Tentlabs XO-2 will lead to a far better overall resolution and imaging.
I will keep you informed when the new V2 PCB will be ready for shipping.
Charly
re v2
Yes I was wondering about that - can the current board receive a clock signal from a separate clock board and so improve the sound - particularly the imaging. This is where the G91 excels compared to the modded Pioneer.
I am interested in any anecdotes, information and speculations people have about modding the 575A.
For example,
1. The Pioneer gets hot and the lid acts as heatsink. So sticking anti-vibration pads to it is a bad idea. I have stuck pads to the bottom of the case with some good effect.
2. What do the 2 resistors R4 and R5 do ? (330 and 91 ohm). I used a 100ohm resistor - 91 not available.
3. Is there any mod that could be done on the mainboard that would improve SPDIF out from Charly's board ?
Yes I was wondering about that - can the current board receive a clock signal from a separate clock board and so improve the sound - particularly the imaging. This is where the G91 excels compared to the modded Pioneer.
I am interested in any anecdotes, information and speculations people have about modding the 575A.
For example,
1. The Pioneer gets hot and the lid acts as heatsink. So sticking anti-vibration pads to it is a bad idea. I have stuck pads to the bottom of the case with some good effect.
2. What do the 2 resistors R4 and R5 do ? (330 and 91 ohm). I used a 100ohm resistor - 91 not available.
3. Is there any mod that could be done on the mainboard that would improve SPDIF out from Charly's board ?
Re: News series to come.....
Charly
I am getting one. One suggestion, can we please have a good transformer to isolate the spdif output?
I have downloaded the manual for the 575. A look at the output section shows that there is scope for improvemnt ie opamp replacement for the 5260 and output cap replacment. The opmaps actually have 2 output coupling caps, one at the inverting input and one at the output. The non inverting inputs are biased from the 12V supply - unusual.
Attached is a pdf of the circuit. Any comments?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------oehlrich said:
Charly
I am getting one. One suggestion, can we please have a good transformer to isolate the spdif output?
I have downloaded the manual for the 575. A look at the output section shows that there is scope for improvemnt ie opamp replacement for the 5260 and output cap replacment. The opmaps actually have 2 output coupling caps, one at the inverting input and one at the output. The non inverting inputs are biased from the 12V supply - unusual.
Attached is a pdf of the circuit. Any comments?
SPDIF ouput
I use the SPDIF output directly off the digital board (I added a socket for this) - not through the Pioneer digital out. This is better ?
I use the SPDIF output directly off the digital board (I added a socket for this) - not through the Pioneer digital out. This is better ?
Re: Re: News series to come.....
I have downloaded the manual for the 575. A look at the output section shows that there is scope for improvemnt ie opamp replacement for the 5260 and output cap replacment. The opmaps actually have 2 output coupling caps, one at the inverting input and one at the output. The non inverting inputs are biased from the 12V supply - unusual.
Attached is a pdf of the circuit. Any comments? [/B][/QUOTE]
I have just received my DV575 for £69 without remote. Replacedthe 47uF/16V output caps (very easy) wih Black Gate FKs and the sound has improved already. the input caps to the opamps are 100uF/10V. I need to find smaller ones than FKs to change these.
Look forward to v2 of the digital board.
Has anyone done work on the cheap power supply?
I have downloaded the manual for the 575. A look at the output section shows that there is scope for improvemnt ie opamp replacement for the 5260 and output cap replacment. The opmaps actually have 2 output coupling caps, one at the inverting input and one at the output. The non inverting inputs are biased from the 12V supply - unusual.
Attached is a pdf of the circuit. Any comments? [/B][/QUOTE]
I have just received my DV575 for £69 without remote. Replacedthe 47uF/16V output caps (very easy) wih Black Gate FKs and the sound has improved already. the input caps to the opamps are 100uF/10V. I need to find smaller ones than FKs to change these.
Look forward to v2 of the digital board.
Has anyone done work on the cheap power supply?
There are other threads about this one.
http://www.diyhifi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=205
You didn't attach the PDF by the way.
I don't know if carlosfm could find other mods with the schematic.
http://www.diyhifi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=205
You didn't attach the PDF by the way.
I don't know if carlosfm could find other mods with the schematic.
DragonMaster said:
The pdf is there, I just looked at it with 25 others.
Yes, I have read Carlos's posts. His modification stategy is nopt the same as mine; there are components he uses which I will not from experience.
Probably the best thing to do is to construct a completely different output section from the dac; there is not enough space to mess around. Needs a new power supply too.
These Mods
Just wanted to ask whats going on with these mods and how do those who have done them like the results?
Ken
Just wanted to ask whats going on with these mods and how do those who have done them like the results?
Ken
Well - finally after... eh? half a year I found someone who was able to assemble and weld the kit for me (the guy, former Pioneer technician was using hot air instead of welder, so my board looks even cleaner than the one in manual). It does work, but I have yet to sit in comfortable, quiet flat, or maybe smoke some pot to hear this BIG DIFFERENCE, as with my 2-year old boy running around screaming it is quite impossible 🙂
BTW the tehcnician is a hobbyist, who is making cathode-ray amplifiers and he was wery surprised when I told him Pioneer 575 is believed to have bad clock and high jitter. He said that this rumor is complete ********.
Indeed the player sounds different on 5.1 and digital output, but I can't exactly tell what is different - bass was always good, and SACD, as you know is worse in high tones than standard CD... One, but very rare problem is SACDs that don't have stereo tracks - you still have to listen to them through 5.1 output, as they sound really crap through S/PDIF stereo...
I was also surprised, before I installed the board, that my DVD-As were NOT frequnency limited to 48000! I was able to get stereo output with 96000 from some DVD-As.
And last thing: how do you set up your Pioneer for digital output with this board? I would like to have it in 5.1 mode, so I can still listen to these 5.1 only SACDs without digging in menu, but some DVD-As won't play anything when I choose 5.1 from 575's settings menu!
BTW the tehcnician is a hobbyist, who is making cathode-ray amplifiers and he was wery surprised when I told him Pioneer 575 is believed to have bad clock and high jitter. He said that this rumor is complete ********.
Indeed the player sounds different on 5.1 and digital output, but I can't exactly tell what is different - bass was always good, and SACD, as you know is worse in high tones than standard CD... One, but very rare problem is SACDs that don't have stereo tracks - you still have to listen to them through 5.1 output, as they sound really crap through S/PDIF stereo...
I was also surprised, before I installed the board, that my DVD-As were NOT frequnency limited to 48000! I was able to get stereo output with 96000 from some DVD-As.
And last thing: how do you set up your Pioneer for digital output with this board? I would like to have it in 5.1 mode, so I can still listen to these 5.1 only SACDs without digging in menu, but some DVD-As won't play anything when I choose 5.1 from 575's settings menu!
Congratulations!qus said:
To your question about setup. The board outputs exactly the signals at the D/A converters of the left and right channel. So if you hear something in these channels via analogue connection you also get a digital hires signal for that.
Charly
oehlrich said:
Well, there was one case that the player produced 5.1 output via analogue but nothing on S/PDIF (on DVD-A). I will try to replicate this and give you feedback.
Digital board's SPDIF or just the player's output?
Where is this coming from? I always heard that the clock was really good with low jitter in these players.
There's an option for this with the original digital output. It either plays protected DVD-As at 48kHz thru the digital output or only with the analog output.
Where is this coming from? I always heard that the clock was really good with low jitter in these players.
There's an option for this with the original digital output. It either plays protected DVD-As at 48kHz thru the digital output or only with the analog output.
I ordered the Hirez SACD/DVD-A board from Dr. Oehlrich and installed it into a Pioneer 588A player that I bought for the project:
- I have played SACD, DVD-A, DVD & CD format disks and the correct frequency pcm signal is reported at the input of my Behringer DEQ2496. I purchased the 192 to 96 khz conversion option for the board, although I haven't tried any 192 khz discs yet. It sounds very good to me, but I don't claim to have golden ears. My system is Pioneer 588A player>>DEQ2496>>DCX2496>>homebuilt VCA 5-channel volume control>>two B&K 125 amps & 15" powered subwoofer>>two Magneplanar MGIIs w/o treble section & two Bohlender Graebener RD50s.
- There are some very tiny surface mount components that must be soldered onto the board. If you know someone that has a hot air soldering station, certainly try to get their help. I used a very fine soldering tip and one of those big magnifying glasses with a fluorescent light around it.
- After soldering up the board and installing it into my player, it didn't work at first. Dr. Oehlrich was very helpful in fixing the two surface mount legs that were not soldered down to the board. I would never have found the soldering errors myself.
I would recommend this project to anyone who can do the soldering. The support from Dr. Oehlrich is a big plus in my book.
Now I am looking for high-rez recordings of music that I like, which has been a challenge. Does anyone out there have suggestions for web sites of recommended hi-rez disks?
-Larry Johnson
- I have played SACD, DVD-A, DVD & CD format disks and the correct frequency pcm signal is reported at the input of my Behringer DEQ2496. I purchased the 192 to 96 khz conversion option for the board, although I haven't tried any 192 khz discs yet. It sounds very good to me, but I don't claim to have golden ears. My system is Pioneer 588A player>>DEQ2496>>DCX2496>>homebuilt VCA 5-channel volume control>>two B&K 125 amps & 15" powered subwoofer>>two Magneplanar MGIIs w/o treble section & two Bohlender Graebener RD50s.
- There are some very tiny surface mount components that must be soldered onto the board. If you know someone that has a hot air soldering station, certainly try to get their help. I used a very fine soldering tip and one of those big magnifying glasses with a fluorescent light around it.
- After soldering up the board and installing it into my player, it didn't work at first. Dr. Oehlrich was very helpful in fixing the two surface mount legs that were not soldered down to the board. I would never have found the soldering errors myself.
I would recommend this project to anyone who can do the soldering. The support from Dr. Oehlrich is a big plus in my book.
Now I am looking for high-rez recordings of music that I like, which has been a challenge. Does anyone out there have suggestions for web sites of recommended hi-rez disks?
-Larry Johnson
Bach Collegium Japan is about halfway through recording all of Bach's cantatas for Sweden's BIS label. The last several discs have been hybrids. BIS also has a great SACD of all the arias from BCJ's St. Matthew's Passion. (The complete work is only available in CD format.) Also HIGHLY recommended is BCJ's hybrid disc issue of Bach's four orchestral suites. http://www.sa-cd.net/showtitle/3310 (Not to insult your intelligence, but if you were not aware, it turns out that Bach was a great lover of sushi: he is totally at home in Japan, at least when played by BCJ.) BIS also has a great set of Bach's complete organ works in SACD-only format, played by Hans Fagius, at a very reasonable price. I can't remember the label, but there is also a hybrid complete organ works set by Knud Vad. NOT TO BE MISSED -- I mean it -- is Hidemi Suzuki playing Bach's complete cello suites on a pair of hybrid discs, BMG Entertainment. http://www.sa-cd.net/showtitle/2979 (He also recorded the cello suites about 10 years ago -- CD only, DHM label -- and the newer recording is greatly to be preferred. The DHM CD-only version was recently re-released and it is cheaper but I can't recommend it now that the BMG hybrid version is available.) If you browse around SA-CD.net you should find some other gems.
SACD reviews: http://www.sa-cd.net/
DVD-A reviews: http://www.highfidelityreview.com/reviews/dvdaudio.asp
SACD reviews: http://www.highfidelityreview.com/reviews/sacd.asp
SACD, DVD-A and XRCD: http://www.audaud.com/hires.php
Anyway probably most interesting are jazz and classical CACDs/DVD-As, those that were exclusively engineered from beginning to end with high def in mind. Remember you have to use wide range microphones, not the normal ones, high def equipment and high def processing... For old recordings remastered, you won't get any REAL high freq audio contents, i.e. The Doors "L.A. Woman", although sounds better on DVD-A, it is really a scam 🙂 I ripped it to wavs and what I discovered is that they just added higher harmonics with some computer tools - the FFT has very obvious dent, almost drops to zero at 22050 and then slowly goes back up... And with pop/electronic music, full of sampled sounds you won't expect do get anyghing in high freq region, do you?
DVD-A reviews: http://www.highfidelityreview.com/reviews/dvdaudio.asp
SACD reviews: http://www.highfidelityreview.com/reviews/sacd.asp
SACD, DVD-A and XRCD: http://www.audaud.com/hires.php
Anyway probably most interesting are jazz and classical CACDs/DVD-As, those that were exclusively engineered from beginning to end with high def in mind. Remember you have to use wide range microphones, not the normal ones, high def equipment and high def processing... For old recordings remastered, you won't get any REAL high freq audio contents, i.e. The Doors "L.A. Woman", although sounds better on DVD-A, it is really a scam 🙂 I ripped it to wavs and what I discovered is that they just added higher harmonics with some computer tools - the FFT has very obvious dent, almost drops to zero at 22050 and then slowly goes back up... And with pop/electronic music, full of sampled sounds you won't expect do get anyghing in high freq region, do you?
New PCB finished
Hi folks,
today I finished the layout of the version 2.0 PCB of the DIY Kit.
First the good news: There would be a standard kit with same functionality as before. With the new kits I will provide a little cooler because I saw some quite funny coolers in your assemblies. I guess it would be easier for you if I deliver it. The PCB had grown a bit but it will have the same connector and the same distance between the mounting screws. If I have the offer for the PCBs I will let you know the price but I expect it would not be much higher as it was.
With the extended kit (and only with it) three options will be available now.
First we can limit the output rate of DVD-As to 96kHz (this we already had).
Next I included some circuit to run an Xtal oscillator directly on board. This oscillator is fed by a very clean power. So the XO DIY oscillator (24.5760MHz) from Guido Tent (see http://www.tentlabs.com/ProductEntities/XO/XO.html) could be used. Activating this option the kit samples each input it gets from the transport up (or down) to 96 kHz sampling rate.
The third option admits to use an external XO2 clock generator from Guido (see http://www.tentlabs.com/ProductEntities/XO-2/XO2.html) which will deliver a still higher quality clock signal. With this external XO2 clock the output rate is also fixed to 96 kHz.
For resampling the AD1896 is used which has an internal digital PLL with a maximum jitter of 5ps! So very good results should be achieved with the internal - or even better - the external clock.
Due to limited PCB size no transformer found its way to the kit :-(
Next I will order two prototypes for testing ………
Stay tuned
Charly
Hi folks,
today I finished the layout of the version 2.0 PCB of the DIY Kit.
First the good news: There would be a standard kit with same functionality as before. With the new kits I will provide a little cooler because I saw some quite funny coolers in your assemblies. I guess it would be easier for you if I deliver it. The PCB had grown a bit but it will have the same connector and the same distance between the mounting screws. If I have the offer for the PCBs I will let you know the price but I expect it would not be much higher as it was.
With the extended kit (and only with it) three options will be available now.
First we can limit the output rate of DVD-As to 96kHz (this we already had).
Next I included some circuit to run an Xtal oscillator directly on board. This oscillator is fed by a very clean power. So the XO DIY oscillator (24.5760MHz) from Guido Tent (see http://www.tentlabs.com/ProductEntities/XO/XO.html) could be used. Activating this option the kit samples each input it gets from the transport up (or down) to 96 kHz sampling rate.
The third option admits to use an external XO2 clock generator from Guido (see http://www.tentlabs.com/ProductEntities/XO-2/XO2.html) which will deliver a still higher quality clock signal. With this external XO2 clock the output rate is also fixed to 96 kHz.
For resampling the AD1896 is used which has an internal digital PLL with a maximum jitter of 5ps! So very good results should be achieved with the internal - or even better - the external clock.
Due to limited PCB size no transformer found its way to the kit :-(
Next I will order two prototypes for testing ………
Stay tuned
Charly
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