Well done Charly!
I will buy one for sure with Xtal option!
Any news for the multichannel version?
I will buy one for sure with Xtal option!
Any news for the multichannel version?
Jitter revisited
Some words to that jitter discussion out there. Currently we have reports from users of the kit saying using its the digital output and comparing it to a meridian CD Player the Meridian wins. This is jitter!
I remember the German Stereoply magazine tested the DV575A against another cheap player the Philips DVP 720SA in July 2004.
Despite all other testing they also make jitter measurements with spectrograms summing up the harmonics to get the overall jitter value.
I will give you the values of some more players they tested. Read and decide by yourself if you think the Pioneer has high or low jitter.
Teac DV 7D 863ps
JVC XV N 316 592ps
Meridian G07 471ps
Teac Esoteric UX1 422ps
Pioneer DV696AV 420ps new machine with HDMI out (the kit will also work with it 🙂
McIntosh MCD201 402ps
Pioneer DV575A 385ps
Meridian G06 174ps
Marantz SA8400 164ps
Philips DVP 720SA 158ps
With the new clocks in the extended kit the jitter of the Pioneer should be far below 100ps.
Charly
qus said:
Some words to that jitter discussion out there. Currently we have reports from users of the kit saying using its the digital output and comparing it to a meridian CD Player the Meridian wins. This is jitter!
I remember the German Stereoply magazine tested the DV575A against another cheap player the Philips DVP 720SA in July 2004.
Despite all other testing they also make jitter measurements with spectrograms summing up the harmonics to get the overall jitter value.
I will give you the values of some more players they tested. Read and decide by yourself if you think the Pioneer has high or low jitter.
Teac DV 7D 863ps
JVC XV N 316 592ps
Meridian G07 471ps
Teac Esoteric UX1 422ps
Pioneer DV696AV 420ps new machine with HDMI out (the kit will also work with it 🙂
McIntosh MCD201 402ps
Pioneer DV575A 385ps
Meridian G06 174ps
Marantz SA8400 164ps
Philips DVP 720SA 158ps
With the new clocks in the extended kit the jitter of the Pioneer should be far below 100ps.
Charly
Michele Spinolo said:
Dear Michele I'm sorry but it's currently not on my todo list.
I have such a lot of other projects being more important for me at the moment.
What about jitter correction features built in into popular D/A converters like CS42428?
Somewhere in this thread someone used the term "audible jitter", so if you can hear it, how does it sound? Worse separation? Phase errors? Even when playing normal CDs I can really tell exactly where each instrument stood during recording phase, there's pretty good stage and excellent separation. So - where's the jitter?
qus said:
Hearing the jitter or not depends on your Audio DAC. Using a resampler like DAC1 from Benchmark Media jitter will be completely discarded. This DAC also uses AD1896 like I did for resampling in the kit.
Operating a DAC that generates its masterclock from the input SPDIF signal may lead to audible jitter because the PLL regenerating the clock in general has much lower jitter suppression than the digital PLL inside the AD1896. But this very much depends on the design of the receiving PLL.
Not hearing the jitter of the Pioneer DV-575A did not mean it is not there! It only means that you have a DAC which succeeds in suppressing the jitter before it reaches your ears.
Just a short information update.
The prototype boards V2.0 are in production.
I'll get them for testing at 7. of June.
So I expect the new kits will be ready for shipping at end of June.
The prototype boards V2.0 are in production.
I'll get them for testing at 7. of June.
So I expect the new kits will be ready for shipping at end of June.
kit 2 excitement
Put me down for kit 2!
Is the clock for kit 2 same as clock speed of Pioneer. ie. 27 MHz ?
Can a new external 27 MHz clock that drives the Pioneer, also be used to drive Kit 2 board ?
-------------------------------------------
Some more comparisons into a superior DAC (meridian G91):
A 1994 SLP2000 Technics CD player sounds better than Pioneer digital out. This must be due to 1) reduced jitter 2) CD mechanism in Technics is far superior to modern DVD-ROM mechs. Because of CD-mech bass quality from Technics is superior to same CD playing in a G91! It's not night and day but certainly much more pleasant. In other areas (imaging) G91 is alot better. Pioneer also has a touch more "get up and go rhythm" than G91.
Will kit 2 and Pioneer SACD replay match Lin Unidisk SC ? The Linn is magical - just sometimes for a few seconds like vinyl ! I am looking forward to making that kit2 v Linn comparison!
Put me down for kit 2!
Is the clock for kit 2 same as clock speed of Pioneer. ie. 27 MHz ?
Can a new external 27 MHz clock that drives the Pioneer, also be used to drive Kit 2 board ?
-------------------------------------------
Some more comparisons into a superior DAC (meridian G91):
A 1994 SLP2000 Technics CD player sounds better than Pioneer digital out. This must be due to 1) reduced jitter 2) CD mechanism in Technics is far superior to modern DVD-ROM mechs. Because of CD-mech bass quality from Technics is superior to same CD playing in a G91! It's not night and day but certainly much more pleasant. In other areas (imaging) G91 is alot better. Pioneer also has a touch more "get up and go rhythm" than G91.
Will kit 2 and Pioneer SACD replay match Lin Unidisk SC ? The Linn is magical - just sometimes for a few seconds like vinyl ! I am looking forward to making that kit2 v Linn comparison!
Re: kit 2 excitement
Dear modder,
I did not make a new 27MHz clock for the pioneer. The clock stays the same. What I did is reclocking and upsampling the signal to a constant 96kHz. Therefore there is an oscillator on the PCB with 24.5760 MHz. For best results the XO DIY from Tentlabs should be used http://www.tentlabs.com/ProductEntities/XO/XO.html.
This reclocking is done inside the AD1896 which has a digital PLL with a jitter performance of 5ps. This means at the digital output of the new kit there should be a nearly jitterfree signal.
modder said:
Dear modder,
I did not make a new 27MHz clock for the pioneer. The clock stays the same. What I did is reclocking and upsampling the signal to a constant 96kHz. Therefore there is an oscillator on the PCB with 24.5760 MHz. For best results the XO DIY from Tentlabs should be used http://www.tentlabs.com/ProductEntities/XO/XO.html.
This reclocking is done inside the AD1896 which has a digital PLL with a jitter performance of 5ps. This means at the digital output of the new kit there should be a nearly jitterfree signal.
Re: Re: Re: kit 2 excitement
via the forum I will keep you informed about the status of the new kit.
If you drop me a line with your email address I will inform you when the new V2 kits are ready for shipping (probably not before the beginning of July).
Charly
Fred,fmak said:
via the forum I will keep you informed about the status of the new kit.
If you drop me a line with your email address I will inform you when the new V2 kits are ready for shipping (probably not before the beginning of July).
Charly
machine model for multichannel sacd ?
i'm interested in getting a multichannel sacd pioneer machine that can be modified, however, I do not need video on this machine - any nominations or success cases to share, anyone ?
thanks ahead !
i'm interested in getting a multichannel sacd pioneer machine that can be modified, however, I do not need video on this machine - any nominations or success cases to share, anyone ?
thanks ahead !
Look on their website for players that could be suitable to use without a TV screen.
On some of them, you really need to have a TV just to put it on repeat, program or shuffle mode. Look for these buttons on the remote.
On some of them, you really need to have a TV just to put it on repeat, program or shuffle mode. Look for these buttons on the remote.
TEAC ESOTERIC U1 U3 UX1 UX3
Hello,
I am happy to anounce the chance to integrate the DIY kit into the Esoteric Plaxer U1, U3, UX1 and UX3.
I found in soundstage magazine:
"What will be controversial in terms of the performance of both the X-01 and UX-1 is that neither decodes DSD information -- both convert it to 88.2kHz PCM and then to analog. The Esoteric DV-50's Burr-Brown PCM1738 chips do convert DSD via a decoder interface, but the X-01 and UX-1 use higher-grade Burr-Brown DACs that do not allow for the interface. As Esoteric explained, "With the inherent superiority of the new VRDS NEO mechanism, the datastreams, regardless of format, are amazingly pure. The decoding of these signals was engineered specifically to this new mechanism." Esoteric engineers felt that DSD-to-PCM conversion was "the proper way to obtain the best audio results from the new VRDS NEO mechanism."
This means the 88,2 kHz PCM signal could be used as input to the kit.
Did anyone have the service manual of the Esoteric players so I could find out how to connect the kit?
By the way, Pioneer DV AX-10 also will work with the kit!
Hello,
I am happy to anounce the chance to integrate the DIY kit into the Esoteric Plaxer U1, U3, UX1 and UX3.
I found in soundstage magazine:
"What will be controversial in terms of the performance of both the X-01 and UX-1 is that neither decodes DSD information -- both convert it to 88.2kHz PCM and then to analog. The Esoteric DV-50's Burr-Brown PCM1738 chips do convert DSD via a decoder interface, but the X-01 and UX-1 use higher-grade Burr-Brown DACs that do not allow for the interface. As Esoteric explained, "With the inherent superiority of the new VRDS NEO mechanism, the datastreams, regardless of format, are amazingly pure. The decoding of these signals was engineered specifically to this new mechanism." Esoteric engineers felt that DSD-to-PCM conversion was "the proper way to obtain the best audio results from the new VRDS NEO mechanism."
This means the 88,2 kHz PCM signal could be used as input to the kit.
Did anyone have the service manual of the Esoteric players so I could find out how to connect the kit?
By the way, Pioneer DV AX-10 also will work with the kit!
Re: TEAC ESOTERIC U1 U3 UX1 UX3
Is Pioneer DV AX-10 (Japanese model) same as DVD-989AVi-s known in Europe?
If they were the same, it would be interesting as I just happened to have DVD-989AVi-s.
Patrick
oehlrich said:
Is Pioneer DV AX-10 (Japanese model) same as DVD-989AVi-s known in Europe?
If they were the same, it would be interesting as I just happened to have DVD-989AVi-s.
Patrick
Re: Pioneer (989) Universal player
Well,
you could open the system of your Pioneer (989i) and tell us what kind of DACs the player is using ..
rgrds
CROSSY
Well,
you could open the system of your Pioneer (989i) and tell us what kind of DACs the player is using ..
rgrds
CROSSY
i don't know for sure but really doubt if the AX10 design is reused 3 years afterwards, after they made all the cheaper models in-between until 989
history has it that Pioneer DV-AX10 was a totally loss making product, it was so costly that from then on Pioneer shifted more of their efforts to making mass market (lower cost) models
history has it that Pioneer DV-AX10 was a totally loss making product, it was so costly that from then on Pioneer shifted more of their efforts to making mass market (lower cost) models
heard the 989 last nite
the sound of 989 is quite different from DV-AX10, more lean and clear rather than AX10's thick texture sound; so I am guessing the DAC is quite different
the sound of 989 is quite different from DV-AX10, more lean and clear rather than AX10's thick texture sound; so I am guessing the DAC is quite different
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