I'm no expert at ground loops, but my 'hunch' is that what's causing this is that I have powered speakers plugged in all over the room, AND a HTPC.
The HTPC is sending sound via HDMI, which goes into the TV, and then I use the digital out of the TV to feed an outboard DAC, which is then plugged into an amplifier.
The powered speakers buzz even when nothing is playing, so they're picking it up from something in the room I guess?
Oddly enough, I bought my subwoofer from some dude who had those in his 900' apartment. He said he was getting married and his wife was making him sell his gear lol
This is great info, thank you
The more I look at the spinorama sight, the more I think that the path of least resistance might be to figure out how to make my Yamaha DXR12s look better. (Note that the first spinorama is for the DXR12 and the second is for the DXR8. The DXR8 is flatter "out of the box" but the DXR12 is smoother once normalized.)
They're surprisingly compact. In the pic above, you can see that my Waslo Cosynes dwarf them. The main issue that I have with the DXR 12s is that with their grills on, they look like the cheap PA speakers they are. And with the grills off, they look weird. When I first bought them, I tried to wrap the entire cabinet in cloth, but it looked bad. Perhaps I could make some kind of cloth cover for the speaker, similar to what Vandersteen does:
I've attached the spinoramas for them, and they're quite good, especially considering you can get the DXR12s for $448 on Amazon right now. I paid $600 each for mine, and they were used. Heck, I might buy another one just for parts!
The DXR12s are one of those speakers where I can't see any practical way you could DIY them for less. A plywood cabinet is about $100 delivered, the compression driver is $50, the waveguide would be about $30, the woofer about $80, a thousand watt amplifier is about $200 and the DSP would be about $80. So even if you tried to assemble something comparable by DIY'ing it, you still can't do it for $448. And that assumes that your time is free.
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Sunday update:
Last night I came this close to buying a pair of the Elac point source speakers. Watched a bunch of Youtube videos, read the threads on Audiosciencereview.
From what I can see, there are basically two "camps" of speaker options right now:
1) Two way and three way speakers which are capable of mid to high-ish efficiency. I came real close to purchasing a set of three-way Wharfedale speakers. Wharfedale seems to be offering a lot of value these days, and it's not a brand that I've considered in the past. (I mostly buy JBL and Infinity stuff, and I have some Behringer and Kali too.)
2) Point source speakers from Kef and Elac
Again, I came this close to getting something from Elac... But just couldn't get over the fact that they're less than 85dB efficient. That's really really low. In Youtube reviews, people were saying that they had to bump their amplifiers from 100 to 200 watts. I have a difficult time imagining how a bookshelf speaker with a four inch midrange will sound "dynamic" when it's getting hit with 200 watts of power. Just seems like a recipe for a very "undynamic" speaker.
So I'll probably have to bite the bullet and make something like a Danley SM60F.
The prosound two ways are affordable and efficient. I have a set of Yamaha DXR12s and they will pin you in your seat, they are REALLY dynamic. But my Waslo Cosynes image better.
Last night I came this close to buying a pair of the Elac point source speakers. Watched a bunch of Youtube videos, read the threads on Audiosciencereview.
From what I can see, there are basically two "camps" of speaker options right now:
1) Two way and three way speakers which are capable of mid to high-ish efficiency. I came real close to purchasing a set of three-way Wharfedale speakers. Wharfedale seems to be offering a lot of value these days, and it's not a brand that I've considered in the past. (I mostly buy JBL and Infinity stuff, and I have some Behringer and Kali too.)
2) Point source speakers from Kef and Elac
Again, I came this close to getting something from Elac... But just couldn't get over the fact that they're less than 85dB efficient. That's really really low. In Youtube reviews, people were saying that they had to bump their amplifiers from 100 to 200 watts. I have a difficult time imagining how a bookshelf speaker with a four inch midrange will sound "dynamic" when it's getting hit with 200 watts of power. Just seems like a recipe for a very "undynamic" speaker.
So I'll probably have to bite the bullet and make something like a Danley SM60F.
The prosound two ways are affordable and efficient. I have a set of Yamaha DXR12s and they will pin you in your seat, they are REALLY dynamic. But my Waslo Cosynes image better.
Looking at your setup, I envision a full built in (shelves/cabinets/tv/speakers) keeping your Waslo cosynes and making them disappear into the build with maybe some nice retro grill cloth covering the horn (which i’m guessing is considered one of the ugly parts to the head office!) shouldn’t hurt the sound too much as they‘re quite directional anyway?
Seems like the amount of effort put in to procure them combined with the great pleasure they give would be a source of resentment (depression at the least) later. 😢
Seems like the amount of effort put in to procure them combined with the great pleasure they give would be a source of resentment (depression at the least) later. 😢
Why not just hang acoustically transparent curtails from the alcove. This way you can have any ugly speakers you want behind and nobody would know. You could even have them part to unhide the TV.
I guess you have to decide what your really want more of.
No way would I not use my 12" 2-way jbl's.
They have better midbass slam and integration than having the phase (time) wrap that a subwoofer crossing 80-200hz crossing to a bookshelf.
You know it and hear it in drum runs and bass guitar going all over the place.
My 12" full range had better slam / impact / dynamics / integration by itself than when it crossed 24db LR anywhere from 80-200hz.
Once a bass head, always a bass head................................
Even now I miss my double 15's, but what I have now is much better mids and highs (I think crossover point and much better horn).
I wouldn't go back, but I often entertain the idea of rolling in 2 more 12's per side..................
I'm happy with my 6" revel, for what it does.
I'm tempted by the emotiva t-zero+.
But they have major distortion at 96db, let alone how it feels, the air moving 10' away from bass frequencies under 200hz.
DJK said pair of 12's per side, minimum, and I agree.
No way would I not use my 12" 2-way jbl's.
They have better midbass slam and integration than having the phase (time) wrap that a subwoofer crossing 80-200hz crossing to a bookshelf.
You know it and hear it in drum runs and bass guitar going all over the place.
My 12" full range had better slam / impact / dynamics / integration by itself than when it crossed 24db LR anywhere from 80-200hz.
Once a bass head, always a bass head................................
Even now I miss my double 15's, but what I have now is much better mids and highs (I think crossover point and much better horn).
I wouldn't go back, but I often entertain the idea of rolling in 2 more 12's per side..................
I'm happy with my 6" revel, for what it does.
I'm tempted by the emotiva t-zero+.
But they have major distortion at 96db, let alone how it feels, the air moving 10' away from bass frequencies under 200hz.
DJK said pair of 12's per side, minimum, and I agree.
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Have you tried lifting ground from your XLR lines feeding your yammies?
Have you checked all components feed from same AC circuit , check for grounding or polarity mismatches
Neutral and hot sometimes are swapped or no ground on an extension cord.
Most of my nasty hums in live PA is because of that as soon my main mixer and amps are on the same balanced AC circuit problems gone.
And or the lift ground trick on the XLR feeding my monitors or main PA.
Done!
Max.
Yep.
The speakers buzz even when idling. In fact, that's the annoying part; when I'm not using the TV you can hear them hum. Seems to be a known thing:
https://www.google.com/search?q=lp6+hum+kali
Seriously, buy a pair of JBL 705Ps if you want tiny, great, and loud.
Or buy a set of 708Ps if you want medium sized, great, and basically unlimited dynamics at home. Look at Erin’s compression testing and compare to the other speakers he’s tested.
Or buy a set of 708Ps if you want medium sized, great, and basically unlimited dynamics at home. Look at Erin’s compression testing and compare to the other speakers he’s tested.
Behringer K8, keep the cabinet and remove the electronic if you want passive... cheap enough to try. https://behringer.com/product.html?modelCode=P0AZU
Can end in the kitchen if not enough for your tastes.
Can end in the kitchen if not enough for your tastes.
Patrick,
After looking at the photo of your living room, I'm thinking that DrewMC and Mountain Man have it right. Working on the living room decor, rather than the speakers, really might make sense. If you like them, you could probably keep your Cosynes and have a net win functionally, aesthetically, and maritally.
It's hard to tell how big the rest of the room is, and whether this would feel too cramped, but... how about framing out a foot or two of the left side of your existing alcove with drywall so it is more symmetrical looking with the right side, and then buying, building (or commissioning) something in the way of a stepped cabinet / bookcase wall to infill the rest of the space?
This could serve to house your TV, components, etc, and give you some bric-a-brack display space to boot. If it were designed to create niches on the sides to house the Cosynes, they might not be so obtrusive and could stay. You could put a framed grille-cloth fabric over the horn section, or over the whole niche if the speakers' wood finish clashes with the new cabinetry.
It admittedly would be a bit of work, or expense, or both, but could look great, especially if it incorporated some cool lighting (bias light for the TV, some accent lighting on the shelving for the cool art you'd put on it, etc).
The upside of the niche + 'big grill cloth' approach would be that if the Cosynes are already at the upper end of what you can tolerate, size-wise, you could fit just about anything else in their place afterwards, and either absorb or infill the extra space without disturbing the look.
Give you lots of space to hide your experiments!
???
After looking at the photo of your living room, I'm thinking that DrewMC and Mountain Man have it right. Working on the living room decor, rather than the speakers, really might make sense. If you like them, you could probably keep your Cosynes and have a net win functionally, aesthetically, and maritally.
It's hard to tell how big the rest of the room is, and whether this would feel too cramped, but... how about framing out a foot or two of the left side of your existing alcove with drywall so it is more symmetrical looking with the right side, and then buying, building (or commissioning) something in the way of a stepped cabinet / bookcase wall to infill the rest of the space?
This could serve to house your TV, components, etc, and give you some bric-a-brack display space to boot. If it were designed to create niches on the sides to house the Cosynes, they might not be so obtrusive and could stay. You could put a framed grille-cloth fabric over the horn section, or over the whole niche if the speakers' wood finish clashes with the new cabinetry.
It admittedly would be a bit of work, or expense, or both, but could look great, especially if it incorporated some cool lighting (bias light for the TV, some accent lighting on the shelving for the cool art you'd put on it, etc).
The upside of the niche + 'big grill cloth' approach would be that if the Cosynes are already at the upper end of what you can tolerate, size-wise, you could fit just about anything else in their place afterwards, and either absorb or infill the extra space without disturbing the look.
Give you lots of space to hide your experiments!
???
Unfortunately, that's impractical at the new place:
A bunch of the Blue Heron homes build something that looks like a monolith into the wall, but that would only help me hide a center speaker:
John Patrick
Have you seen that deutsch brand that makes cardioid flat loudspeakers with constant directivity? It is PA, cd and horn. WDP ( wife divorce proof). Very goid review and the most expensive is passive. Dsp and active exists too.
Have you seen that deutsch brand that makes cardioid flat loudspeakers with constant directivity? It is PA, cd and horn. WDP ( wife divorce proof). Very goid review and the most expensive is passive. Dsp and active exists too.
https://funktion-one.com/product/evo-x
sensitive, narrow vertical dispersion, point source, passive speaker (needs 3 amp channels). Seems to fulfill your requirements 😉
sensitive, narrow vertical dispersion, point source, passive speaker (needs 3 amp channels). Seems to fulfill your requirements 😉