summarizing
Ok, just to clarify all of you, here's a summary:
1 - My GC now drives my Epos 11 speakers much better, with the extra caps on the PSU, and, important too, Supra 2.5 speaker cables.
One of the details was that we were using Kimber 8TC that night and, as I said, it may have been part of the problem.
I prefer the sound of my GC at home with the Supras than with my Kimber 4TC cables.
2 - When I have some time, I'll try the LM3886, two in parallel per channel.
But even one LM3886 has double the current capability of the LM3875.
I did two modules with the LM3886 and gave them to my father (he's gonna make a GC too, the toroid he bought is 528VA!), but until now he has been busy with his holidays.
3 - Guys, just BUY THE JOE JACKSON CD ("Volume four") AND LISTEN TO TRACKS 1 AND 4!!!
4 - The gainclone can be a little misleading when you's reviewing or listening to it. It has a fantastic bass if you compare to other amps, but you really have to listen carefully if that bass has definition and if it doesn't swamp the other frequencies (mainly the midband).
Sometimes it's so subtle that it can pass unnoticed to you.
Only when you listen to that same music in a serious system (even with the same speakers) you realize (or not! ) that something was not well.
That example I gave you of the piano on track 9 of the last Ben Harper cd is a good one.
99% of the people (believe if you whant) would not notice that, it would be ok.
Ok, just to clarify all of you, here's a summary:
1 - My GC now drives my Epos 11 speakers much better, with the extra caps on the PSU, and, important too, Supra 2.5 speaker cables.
One of the details was that we were using Kimber 8TC that night and, as I said, it may have been part of the problem.
I prefer the sound of my GC at home with the Supras than with my Kimber 4TC cables.
2 - When I have some time, I'll try the LM3886, two in parallel per channel.
But even one LM3886 has double the current capability of the LM3875.
I did two modules with the LM3886 and gave them to my father (he's gonna make a GC too, the toroid he bought is 528VA!), but until now he has been busy with his holidays.
3 - Guys, just BUY THE JOE JACKSON CD ("Volume four") AND LISTEN TO TRACKS 1 AND 4!!!
4 - The gainclone can be a little misleading when you's reviewing or listening to it. It has a fantastic bass if you compare to other amps, but you really have to listen carefully if that bass has definition and if it doesn't swamp the other frequencies (mainly the midband).
Sometimes it's so subtle that it can pass unnoticed to you.
Only when you listen to that same music in a serious system (even with the same speakers) you realize (or not!
) that something was not well.That example I gave you of the piano on track 9 of the last Ben Harper cd is a good one.
99% of the people (believe if you whant) would not notice that, it would be ok.
carlosfm said:
Come on Carlos - why should we believe that your hearing is better than Srajan Ebaen's or Peter Daniels, or even mine?
All of this is just opinion, based on our observations and listening tests. You will prefer a different setup than other people - but surely that's the point of DIY Audio?
You prefer the extra caps in the PSU. Peter doesn't. So why are you getting upset about it and casting doubt on Srajan's review? I prefer the sound of my GC's with 2800uF BHC caps. Am I also wrong?
Reporting your experience is interesting and useful. Starting arguments with people who have had different experiences is not useful. Let's try to keep this calm and rational - it's only audio ;-)
Best regards,
Mark 😉
Mark,
I don't say that my hearinng is better than others.
I was even humble enough to say that I needed help from a guy with really good hearing, and advised to Peter Daniel to do the same.
No offense, that's not my intention.
Peter, don't thake that wrong, please.
I also don't claim that the best capacitance is what I have now (2x4.700uf per rail), because I didn't compare with other values.
The 50w Gaincard has 2.200uf, not 1.000uf.
Maby there's a right amount between 2.200 and 10.000.
You did well if you went for 2.800 uf, that's better than 1.000😉 .
Anyway, I'm not into a fight here, it was never my intention.
But please don't doubt of what I heard that night.
What I heard that night was a very picky amp with the speakers it drives, and I even heard it with the same speakers I have at home.
But with the right speakers it played gloriously, really.
With the help of that guy I "learned" to pay attention to some detalis that were passing unnoticed to me.
And with discs that I know well (I thought!).
And I'm reporting it all here, for free, to all you nice guys.
We learn from each other's experiences, we have to be open minded.
I don't say that my hearinng is better than others.
I was even humble enough to say that I needed help from a guy with really good hearing, and advised to Peter Daniel to do the same.
No offense, that's not my intention.
Peter, don't thake that wrong, please.
I also don't claim that the best capacitance is what I have now (2x4.700uf per rail), because I didn't compare with other values.
The 50w Gaincard has 2.200uf, not 1.000uf.
Maby there's a right amount between 2.200 and 10.000.
You did well if you went for 2.800 uf, that's better than 1.000😉 .
Anyway, I'm not into a fight here, it was never my intention.
But please don't doubt of what I heard that night.
What I heard that night was a very picky amp with the speakers it drives, and I even heard it with the same speakers I have at home.
But with the right speakers it played gloriously, really.
With the help of that guy I "learned" to pay attention to some detalis that were passing unnoticed to me.
And with discs that I know well (I thought!).
And I'm reporting it all here, for free, to all you nice guys.
We learn from each other's experiences, we have to be open minded.
How's that for rational? Buy a CD!!!??? And a Joe Jackson one at that! No wonder i'm happy with 1000uF 🙂
tbla said:
Hahahahahaha!😀
Nah...
I love them.
It's hard to find such a neutral speaker.
No crossover on the woofer, just a cap and a resistor on the tweeter.
It's done the right way.
When I look at those JMLabs crossovers...😱
It has more components than my pre, including the PSU.
I know the ATCs are good speakers. 😉
Anyway, guys, looking at what I wrote here these last days, it's hard to find a better review of a GC, isn't it?
I mean, maby the problem was the Linn CD12!
It's not every day that you see a review of an amp with such a source.
Maby the CD12 made us detect the problems much more clearly.
When we put the Arcam FMJ playing it seamed like a portable CD player.
And it's a good CD player.
And not every day you can compare your pre to a Jeff Rowland Coerence, with battery PSU.
analog_sa said:
I don't discuss tastes, I always liked Joe Jackson.
And it's a good recording, believe it or not.
And if you don't think so, if you think it's a bad recording, there's a problem there.
Please, don't talk of thigs you don't know or haven't heard.
Until now I've been talking and sharing with you all real things, practical experience.
Let's keep it cool, it's
here.
I was obviously joking. Stiil, it's funny that one must buy a particular piece of music to appreciate the sound of the large caps. And on the worst media of all times to boot.
analog_sa said:
Oh, yes...
Sorry to advise you buying a CD.
I have a Joe Jackson LP I bought more than 10 years ago, it's in mint condition and sounds even better.
But I also told you to listen to track 9 of the last Ben Harper CD (CD again!
), and that is a slow track, with a slow guitar at the beguining and a piano on the background.You can't stop listening CLEARLY that piano while the guitar is playing.
As you see, we have to test with everything to have reliable conclusions.
And listen at very low, low and high volumes.
So Carlos, how GC compares to Halcros? You listened to both of them.
As to caps I tried adding more capacitance (both 10,000u and 1,000u) and while I didn't see much improvement in bass region, highs and lows become much worse. That's why I'm staying with 1000u value. It works for me and it works fine with my amp. You might also note that ea. amp built by us is different, so I'm not claiming that 4700u won't work in your amp, maybe it does.
If you want to listen to good bass, try Burmester CD III. Last track has spectacular drums sample. You say that I have to find a person who has better listening ability than me. Actually I'm using services of two such people, who are trained in live music and whenever I do topology decision or part swapping in my amp, I use their advice. We usually also agree in our observations.
As to caps I tried adding more capacitance (both 10,000u and 1,000u) and while I didn't see much improvement in bass region, highs and lows become much worse. That's why I'm staying with 1000u value. It works for me and it works fine with my amp. You might also note that ea. amp built by us is different, so I'm not claiming that 4700u won't work in your amp, maybe it does.
If you want to listen to good bass, try Burmester CD III. Last track has spectacular drums sample. You say that I have to find a person who has better listening ability than me. Actually I'm using services of two such people, who are trained in live music and whenever I do topology decision or part swapping in my amp, I use their advice. We usually also agree in our observations.
Peter Daniel said:
Yes, but the Halcros (pre and powers), the CDS SACD Transport/Upsampler/Dac and the B&W 800 Signature speakers had arrived that day and everything was "burning in", specially the B&W speakers need a long period.
Even then, they sounded very good, although with CDs that I don't know, and much talk with some people that came in too.
So, it wasn't a critical listening.
Peter Daniel said:
Yes, you're right.
Maby it works for me.
Everyone of us do things different, just look at my modules.
Peter Daniel said:
BTW, you can listen to the Focal/JMLab demo discs.😉
The first one is the best.
And it's nice to know people that can give us a valid oppinion, isn't it?
Sometimes it's good for you and some other people who listens to it, but then a guy calls you the attention for several problems and details and you immediatately slap your face and it becomes clear.
And then you try to solve the problems and that's what I did.😉
But make no mistake, my pre-power (GC) combination, with some of the speakers we tested, kicked those AA pre/monoblocks to the corner.
It was always more detailed anyway, the only problem was that back then my GC couldn't drive some of the speakers that now I'm sure it can.
Carlos,
I don't think it's a matter of golden ears but rather a matter of experience.
Your friend has daily access to reference quality systems and has a better idea how certain things are supposed to sound like under ideal conditions so he would be probably a better judge.
I am sure that you or anybody here would be the same if we were working for several years in a hi-end shop.Sometimes listening to one or two types of home systems only may distort your critical ability. Of course you can always remedy by going frequently to concerts , preferably unamplified.
Sometimes I find myself hanging around a good busker musician for an extra minute just so I can hear a real unamplified instrument up close to get an idea of what it is supposed to sound like.
Often the quality of sound in modern amplified concerts is despicable although they are saved by great dynamics.
I don't think it's a matter of golden ears but rather a matter of experience.
Your friend has daily access to reference quality systems and has a better idea how certain things are supposed to sound like under ideal conditions so he would be probably a better judge.
I am sure that you or anybody here would be the same if we were working for several years in a hi-end shop.Sometimes listening to one or two types of home systems only may distort your critical ability. Of course you can always remedy by going frequently to concerts , preferably unamplified.
Sometimes I find myself hanging around a good busker musician for an extra minute just so I can hear a real unamplified instrument up close to get an idea of what it is supposed to sound like.
Often the quality of sound in modern amplified concerts is despicable although they are saved by great dynamics.
congratulations Protos
Deam it, you summarized everything I think about that in clear and simple way.
Can I sign below?😉
Yes, yes, yes.
It's a matter of practice.
You understand it as I do, but some people think they have good ears and listening practice just by home listening.
You need much more than that.
As for live unamplified concerts, yes again.
I always love to hear people playing in front of me, no amps.
About a month ago I went for a ride with my family to a garden, and there was a "modern theater" group acting live (a sort of mimic), with one guy playing drums (the only instrument).
This was live, open space, with people sitting on the grass.
I couldn't get out of there .
The drums sounded fantastic.
That treble and that bass immediacy is impossible to have at home.
The moment you point a microphone there and record it on any format or amplify it you have already killed it.
Deam it, you summarized everything I think about that in clear and simple way.
Can I sign below?😉
Yes, yes, yes.
It's a matter of practice.
You understand it as I do, but some people think they have good ears and listening practice just by home listening.
You need much more than that.
As for live unamplified concerts, yes again.
I always love to hear people playing in front of me, no amps.
About a month ago I went for a ride with my family to a garden, and there was a "modern theater" group acting live (a sort of mimic), with one guy playing drums (the only instrument).
This was live, open space, with people sitting on the grass.
I couldn't get out of there
.The drums sounded fantastic.
That treble and that bass immediacy is impossible to have at home.
The moment you point a microphone there and record it on any format or amplify it you have already killed it.
tbla said:
LOL from me too!
Seriously, they're not to everyones taste, but I love them. We've got some big active SCM100's at work, and they are just fantastic!
Cheers,
Mark 😉
mhennessy said:
I'd love to work on a place like that.😀
tbla said:i have the passive ATC scm 100sl.....
Well... time to go active with some chips inside.
Hi Mark, I just realised that I can lay claim to buying some active SMC100's! Or at least part of them. 😉
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