Peter Daniel said:
If you read carefully, I used 2x4.700uf per rail, BYPASSED.
Am I doing anything different?
I always bypass the big ones.
You can say that the BGs don't like to be bypassed, that's ok.
But the big ones NEED it.
And as you see, I prefer to use 2x4.700uf than 1x10.000uf.
Carlos
I suspect we are simply having different sound priorities. Nothing wrong with this really. I've tried the GCs with Elna Cerafine 10,000 instead of the 1000 BG and didn't like it one bit: slow and muddy but with greatly improved ability to sustain bass notes. My speakers are probably as horrible as it gets 87db/4ohm with a dip to 2.6ohm. I don't really listen loud though. I'll be keen to know how you like the change in the long term. Of course your bigger caps may be better sounding than the smaller ones (it's the reverse in my case).
cheesr
peter
I suspect we are simply having different sound priorities. Nothing wrong with this really. I've tried the GCs with Elna Cerafine 10,000 instead of the 1000 BG and didn't like it one bit: slow and muddy but with greatly improved ability to sustain bass notes. My speakers are probably as horrible as it gets 87db/4ohm with a dip to 2.6ohm. I don't really listen loud though. I'll be keen to know how you like the change in the long term. Of course your bigger caps may be better sounding than the smaller ones (it's the reverse in my case).
cheesr
peter
analog_sa said:
I test at low, very low and loud volumes.
The difference is always there.
If the bass is not controlled, you will notice at very low volumes.
Believe me.
No blind tests needed here.
Even at low volumes, I lost track of that piano, and with the caps I don't.
Peter, you say you tested Elna Cerafine 10.000uf INSTEAD of 1.000uf BG.
We're not talking the same thing.
I tend to treat these chips as I do with op-amps (after all, these are power op-amps).
You should NEVER put a big cap alone on an op-amp.
You have a PSU.
The caps near the op-amp's pins are for bypassing, 10.000uf is huge.
carlosfm said:
Do you really think that I only test my amps at home on high efficiency speakers? They were tested with at least 30 different speakers in many listening invironments. Not a single complaint.
And BTW, I have 5 different speaker systems at home myself. And yes, I can hear a difference when I move the speakers by 1" only. There's no reason to get excited, really. I went through all that before.
I use my GainClones with my 83dB/W ATC SCM20SL's, and they sound great. What are you trying to say?carlosfm said:
I've got several other pairs of speakers that range up to 91dB/W, and I've tried the GC on all of them. It doesn't sound "worse" on the ATC's, just doesn't play as loudly.
With respect, you have to be careful when reporting your experiences and opinions - OSAF
Cheers,
Mark 😉
B&W speakers I think are not the most amp friendly ones at all... Even if some are highly regarded for the sound all of the impedance responses I've seen from B&W speakers show that these designer do not consider the impedance peaks and dips and very low impedance points to be of a problem.... + the impedance phase varies a lot
So what carlosfm was hearing was most likely the small GC wiped off his feet by the drive requirements for these speakers. I think he just doesn't realise there are certain limits one can achive with thumb sized chip amp like this.
Anyway, when do you guys start to parallel them 🙂 ?
Ergo
So what carlosfm was hearing was most likely the small GC wiped off his feet by the drive requirements for these speakers. I think he just doesn't realise there are certain limits one can achive with thumb sized chip amp like this.
Anyway, when do you guys start to parallel them 🙂 ?
Ergo
carlosfm said:
If you take all the stuffing out of the B&W 602 S3's you may well find that the speed and coherence of the bass improves immencely no matter what amp is driving it....🙂
mike
ps the 2.7 ohm dip is in the treble not the bass
ergo said:
If you rebuild the cross overs that avoid a sharp knee in the roll offs the mid/highs sound much smoother and more natural and they become easier to drive
I'll post more details over in loudspeakers sometime soon.
mike
no use
Guys,
I did all those tests to really see what my amp is capable of.
I thought that reporting all this would help some people.
Pease understand that it's impossible, even with the right voltage and a big transformer, that this chip delivers anywhere near 50w RMS with only 1000uf capacitance in the PSU.
I don't know with what kind of music you test your amps.
Do yourselves a favour: if you have the last CD from Joe Jackson - "Volume four" (if you don't, buy it!), listen to track one "Take it as a man" (no pun intended😀 ).
Listen to that track, and then jump to track 4.
And then don't come with excuses that it's the recording
, because that bass is impressive and it's not overblown (on a good system, of course).
Or do you test your speakers like we hear on Audio Shows? Choral music, birds singing... ha!
Peter, as for the position of the speakers, I passed all that too, but I can assure you that the guy would touch your speakers and they would play better.
Do you guys think you're all golden ears?
We have to be humble, each thing in it's place.
He doesn't discuss electronics with me.
But he passes his days hearing, advising clients, some of them very difficult to deal with, also with "golden ears".
Well, if you take my experiences seriously or not, that's up to you.
Let me tell you that it's so easy to test additional caps on the PSU that I don't understand why you don't try it.
It seams that only JOE DIRT has done the same as I did and he's happy.
Meanwhile, look at this pic of a module of my GC, done MY way.
Guys,
I did all those tests to really see what my amp is capable of.
I thought that reporting all this would help some people.
Pease understand that it's impossible, even with the right voltage and a big transformer, that this chip delivers anywhere near 50w RMS with only 1000uf capacitance in the PSU.
I don't know with what kind of music you test your amps.
Do yourselves a favour: if you have the last CD from Joe Jackson - "Volume four" (if you don't, buy it!), listen to track one "Take it as a man" (no pun intended😀 ).
Listen to that track, and then jump to track 4.
And then don't come with excuses that it's the recording
, because that bass is impressive and it's not overblown (on a good system, of course).Or do you test your speakers like we hear on Audio Shows?
Choral music, birds singing... ha!Peter, as for the position of the speakers, I passed all that too, but I can assure you that the guy would touch your speakers and they would play better.
Do you guys think you're all golden ears?
We have to be humble, each thing in it's place.
He doesn't discuss electronics with me.
But he passes his days hearing, advising clients, some of them very difficult to deal with, also with "golden ears".
Well, if you take my experiences seriously or not, that's up to you.
Let me tell you that it's so easy to test additional caps on the PSU that I don't understand why you don't try it.
It seams that only JOE DIRT has done the same as I did and he's happy.
Meanwhile, look at this pic of a module of my GC, done MY way.
Attachments
Hey Carlos!!
Your caps are further from the chip than mines!!!
I read all your comments about your system with a lot of pleasure and I think we all here should be grateful to your posts. They have sense,are funny to read, and help me.
BTW, You don't listen to classical, do you? And don't know they, but I'm golden ears
Your caps are further from the chip than mines!!!
I read all your comments about your system with a lot of pleasure and I think we all here should be grateful to your posts. They have sense,are funny to read, and help me.
BTW, You don't listen to classical, do you? And don't know they, but I'm golden ears
Humble? And you actually brought THAT amp to a high-end dealer in order to impress him with the sound?!
The right way
Look again.
I have 1000uf, then 6.8uf, then 0.1uf from + to ground, - to ground and from + to -.
I'm not doing anything new, this is common op-amp practice, always with good results.😉
Yesterday I downloaded the LM4780 datasheet and look at what they recommend for bypassing.
Raka said:Hey Carlos!!
Your caps are further from the chip than mines!!!
Look again.
I have 1000uf, then 6.8uf, then 0.1uf from + to ground, - to ground and from + to -.
I'm not doing anything new, this is common op-amp practice, always with good results.😉
Yesterday I downloaded the LM4780 datasheet and look at what they recommend for bypassing.
Attachments
why don't you guys try some regulation......like pedja (and others)
.....put a couple of lt1083 in front of that chip, and check the bas before and after...!
.....put a couple of lt1083 in front of that chip, and check the bas before and after...!
ergo said:
Having recently read Peters Amp zone review (congratulations!) I suspect he may have something up his sleeve to spring on us.In any case the reviewer admired its driving capabilities with average efficiency speakers .
The very industrious Peter has not come up with something new in months so I gather it must be the commercial success of his venture that is taking up his time.
"we" have paralled them.....
4 in parallel against 4 others in parallel - parallel and bridged.
opa 627 as servos and lt1083 for every lm3886 as local regulation.
opa627 and drv134 as inputmodule with alw/jung regulators.
this is some big amps and expensive to build - they are not finnished yet........more to come - perhaps pictures too...!
4 in parallel against 4 others in parallel - parallel and bridged.
opa 627 as servos and lt1083 for every lm3886 as local regulation.
opa627 and drv134 as inputmodule with alw/jung regulators.
this is some big amps and expensive to build - they are not finnished yet........more to come - perhaps pictures too...!
analog_sa said:
I already told you that the only objective was to test my amp, not to impress him.
I whanted to compare it with other things, and test some speakers to see how does it handle.
Deam it, that "high end dealer" guy actually is my best friend, I know him for about 15 years and we have plenty of stories to tell, most of then don't have anything to do with hi-fi.
When I need anything related to hi-fi, it's with him that I talk.
Some time ago he called me and said "run, quick, come on here to listen to the Halcros! I have them here!"😱
And when it's really hot
, we all go and drink some beers.
Hi tbla,
Sounds very interesting.
However I would venture to say that unless one has very inefficient speakers this type of amp should not sound better than the GC.The minimalist short circuit path philosophy which is probably the main advantage of a gc is done away with in this case.
Just wait and see ,eh?
Sounds very interesting.
However I would venture to say that unless one has very inefficient speakers this type of amp should not sound better than the GC.The minimalist short circuit path philosophy which is probably the main advantage of a gc is done away with in this case.
Just wait and see ,eh?
protos said:
Sure.
Some guys just don't know how to listen.
Not everyone have a good critical ear.
That guy the other day told me this story:
"Do you know those big high-end portuguese (and expen$ive) Arpa spearers? (more than 100db sensitivity).
We know a guy with those at home, and a pair of valve amps that give around 10 watts.
He was very happy with the sound.
One day he invited me to go to his home and I took a serious amp.
When he heard it, he almost fell out of his chair! His amps simply couldn't drive those big and ultra-sensitive speakers propperly."
😱
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