Please add the following link to opening post as an alternative to hifiengine. It seems to be growing well. Free of course.
https://audiocircuit.dk/
@canbol Would it be out of the question to have a few non intrusive commercial links on the site? To pay for the cost I mean.
Cheers!
Cheers!
That is what I see. If I've downloaded say 3 or 4 a month to help someone on here fix something then that adds up to perhaps 500 to 1000 downloads over the time I've been on diyAudio. There will be times when I have downloaded the same file a few times over.
Paypal isn't anonymous, and taking lots of donations through Friends and Family would get your account banned.
HiFiEngine’s handling and communication around this whole situation just feels odd. I had a good run with the site -for a while, it was the first source to show up in search results. That likely had something to do with paid placements or Google Ads, but let’s set that aside...
It’s not like there are no alternatives out there, so I don’t understand the “hard to get” attitude -or the initial outrage, for that matter.
From my point of view, it seems like someone is taking themselves a bit more seriously than the situation really calls for.
The heart of the issue is ensuring that old electronics aren't lost to time. -Isn't it?
It’s not like there are no alternatives out there, so I don’t understand the “hard to get” attitude -or the initial outrage, for that matter.
From my point of view, it seems like someone is taking themselves a bit more seriously than the situation really calls for.
The heart of the issue is ensuring that old electronics aren't lost to time. -Isn't it?
Absolutely, Jan has been scraping hifiengine for over a decade and had multiple accounts banned, alongside with his partner in crime fixitguy09.
There are previous threads here discussing scraping our site and how fixitguy09 and his new pal Jan planned to replace hifiengine by stealing our content.
I did ask politely that the threads be taken down, but apparently We couldn't delete threads as that destroys the other content that might be useful
As the site is a clear alternative, there doesn't seem much point in me providing downloads any more.
I just looked, and yes, the Proton D940 SM on Jan's site is indeed the one I uploaded to HFE many years ago....🙁👎
I personally would rather pay a yearly subscription cost (nominal or whatever) to NOT have to look at ads and wonder if the "download" link I clicked is really for the manual or some bloatware that popped up on the screen as paid advertising. Of course, I'd also love to have my VE account restored, but I never did use it much...until I wanted to get back into vinyl for setting up some systems for friends and found my access was no longer active.
It's also the one on audioservicemanuals dot com and probably elsewhere.....
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I don’t consider it stealing to share manuals that were originally distributed freely and obtained through community sources.
Just because someone adds a watermark to a manual they didn’t create doesn’t give them ownership of the content -especially if they got it from peer uploads. Watermarking public or community-shared files doesn’t make them property.
Just because someone adds a watermark to a manual they didn’t create doesn’t give them ownership of the content -especially if they got it from peer uploads. Watermarking public or community-shared files doesn’t make them property.
I've never advertised the site, or paid to improve search results. It's just my hobby.
Sorry if you think we stopped registrations or downloads just for the hell of it. We had more than 20K+ shill accounts blocked due to people trying to scrape our content. Throw in rising costs and things came to a head.
For reasons I've already given, I don't want to charge for access. I have been trying to find a solution that keeps the sites open, and free, but it's proven difficult.
Everyone has been taking this too seriously. All I did was close downloads while I looked to reduce costs. Some people have reacted very angrily (I've had a lot of messages about it), rather than give me a bit of time to work things out. Now I'm not even sure I want to keep providing a download service.
That would be a shame. I hope you do find a way that works, as I personally find the other download sites harder to navigate and find what I'm looking for. I'm not a tech, just a hobbyist, but if you've ever "flown blind" on a repair/restoration because there's no real info or SM available, you know how valuable having a manual to look at is.
Well, @canbol, I appreciate the effort you’ve put into making your site easy to navigate, which certainly makes it a convenient resource. However, it’s important to remember that this information is available through multiple channels, not just your site. To ensure the long-term value and relevance of your resource, it might be beneficial to keep the content as accessible as possible rather than restricting it -especially considering that much of the material was obtained through peer sharing.
Open access tends to support the broader community and helps preserve these valuable documents.
Open access tends to support the broader community and helps preserve these valuable documents.
Fair enough, but when people scrape entire websites, don't be surprised when those websites stop producing new content. I've already had people stop sending me scans after finding their work on eBay, or uploaded to a scraper site without attribution.
I can spend a couple of hours cleaning up scans for a single service manual, and I know it will be copied, reposted or sold within days. It doesn't stop me, but I do get annoyed when people complain that I exported the images with a barely visible tag at the bottom of each page.
It's completely reasonable to want recognition for the time and effort you put into cleaning up and curating these scans. It’s frustrating when that work gets reposted elsewhere without credit, or worse, ends up being sold.
That said, I think there’s an important distinction between seeking acknowledgment for your contribution and treating the underlying material -which was freely shared or came from community sources -as proprietary. Adding a subtle tag to reflect your effort is understandable, but labeling the redistribution of community-sourced or public-domain material as “stealing” feels like a bit of a stretch.
I believe the strength of these archives lies in their openness and accessibility, which I think we all value. In the spirit of that, recognition and collaboration are the best ways to keep this kind of knowledge alive and available, rather than letting it get locked away or become a source of unnecessary conflict.
With manuals and similar resources, once they’re shared on the web, they tend to circulate indefinitely. That’s just the nature of the internet -trying to put them back in a box or control the documents after they’ve been publicly available is rarely realistic, I think.
That said, I think there’s an important distinction between seeking acknowledgment for your contribution and treating the underlying material -which was freely shared or came from community sources -as proprietary. Adding a subtle tag to reflect your effort is understandable, but labeling the redistribution of community-sourced or public-domain material as “stealing” feels like a bit of a stretch.
I believe the strength of these archives lies in their openness and accessibility, which I think we all value. In the spirit of that, recognition and collaboration are the best ways to keep this kind of knowledge alive and available, rather than letting it get locked away or become a source of unnecessary conflict.
With manuals and similar resources, once they’re shared on the web, they tend to circulate indefinitely. That’s just the nature of the internet -trying to put them back in a box or control the documents after they’ve been publicly available is rarely realistic, I think.
That's what I've been trying to do, and part of that has been keeping it free to use.
Even after a cull of several hundred thousand inactive accounts, we still have more than 350K members across both sites, from all over the world, and I'm pretty sure that even a small fee would be a barrier to some.
But costs have gotten out of control, as has abuse by idiots, so we are having a small amount of downtime while I weigh up the options.
I have no problem labeling people who scrape my site as thieves. I'd have no problem doing much worse.
Wholeheartedly agree. However, when the costs incurred to do a "public service" become unsustainable due to whatever reason, then something has to change. Either obtaining income from that public service, (even if to just cover the costs and not turn a profit) or, if the headache becomes too great, release the now "open source" documents to someone/organization that CAN cover the costs.
It's unfortunate that some have angrily vented regarding something they have "no skin in the game" about. That just seems to be the direction that humanity has drifted. I remember a Time magazine article from the '90s when I was stationed in Germany in the USAF entitled something like "A Nation of Whiners and Complainers". It's only gotten worse. And now there seems to be a whole generation of people who want to get paid without working, take offense at the slightest inconvenience, blame others for anything that doesn't go their way, etc. rant off....
I think there’s a meaningful difference between scraping your site -which I agree is disrespectful -and sharing manuals that were originally community-sourced or publicly available. Once those documents are out there, they tend to circulate, often not out of malice, but because that's how shared knowledge tends to survive. -Like I've too shared a manual here and there to help others.
Your time and effort deserve recognition, no question. I just think it’s important to remember that these documents are part of a broader, community-driven effort to preserve and share information and that spirit is worth protecting too.
Perhaps it’s time to consider passing the work you’ve built to an organization or group that can better sustain it long-term.
Well, other sites seem to work fine with donations.
Others have chimed in as well in here. It seems sad to see all of that data locked up but somehow I sense that you don't want to relinquish control of the site which might be the best way to do it. Given that, I honestly don't know what else to suggest to you.
It's been what... a year now?.... that downloads to non contributors "to the document library" have been shut down.
Best of luck, it was a great run. One of the original sites. Simple to use with lots of useful information. From the time when people used to collaborate in the Internet.
If you solve your problems, please let us know.
Thanks
I don't know anything about them, but Patreon and Buy Me A Coffee are two ways of getting financial support from Community
Chee s!
Chee s!