LOL, yes the internet is "free".
I'm not sure where the comments about banks are coming from. In the US at least, there are "Know Your Customer"(KYC) rules that require more than two factor to setup. A bank wants a verifiable SS number to setup an account. And not surprised SMS is a cost. I would have been surprised if the carriers did not want money to route messages thru their system.
I'll throw a couple more ideas out to you, require a CC to setup an account and charge 20 bucks or whatever it costs you to keep a CC merchant account going. And maybe with the 20 bucks 20 downloads. I know CC account not free either, and then you're going to get chargebacks.
Another might be to fold it into diyaudio if they want it. Let this site deal with the extra bandwidth/registration/charging issues. As I've said before, I have my own biz with a package running around a million lines of code that I wrote. It is my baby so to speak. Years back I did license source code to essentially a competitor for a large chunk of change, but I retained all rights. So I do get the whole ownership thing that can happen. Some things are hard to let go of.
I'm not sure where the comments about banks are coming from. In the US at least, there are "Know Your Customer"(KYC) rules that require more than two factor to setup. A bank wants a verifiable SS number to setup an account. And not surprised SMS is a cost. I would have been surprised if the carriers did not want money to route messages thru their system.
I'll throw a couple more ideas out to you, require a CC to setup an account and charge 20 bucks or whatever it costs you to keep a CC merchant account going. And maybe with the 20 bucks 20 downloads. I know CC account not free either, and then you're going to get chargebacks.
Another might be to fold it into diyaudio if they want it. Let this site deal with the extra bandwidth/registration/charging issues. As I've said before, I have my own biz with a package running around a million lines of code that I wrote. It is my baby so to speak. Years back I did license source code to essentially a competitor for a large chunk of change, but I retained all rights. So I do get the whole ownership thing that can happen. Some things are hard to let go of.
You have to learn to ignore the idiots of the world. "Delete"
When doing authorized warranty, I was sometimes simply beat because someone walked through my door. BUT! The customer is not always right (usually a shock to them). Most people are pretty good. If they feel entitled and throw it at my feet, I simply don't deal with them.
Look at it as some folks giving you assistance because they appreciate what you do. We aren't customers, but people you help and we're trying to help you. Learn to ignore the idiots of the world, there is no shortage of those!
Just a comment. Your site works just fine, the layout works although some things are clunky. Who cares? I get done what I need to do pretty efficiently. Some sites are a lot worse, so ... "you done good". If someone doesn't like it, they don't have to use your site.
When doing authorized warranty, I was sometimes simply beat because someone walked through my door. BUT! The customer is not always right (usually a shock to them). Most people are pretty good. If they feel entitled and throw it at my feet, I simply don't deal with them.
Look at it as some folks giving you assistance because they appreciate what you do. We aren't customers, but people you help and we're trying to help you. Learn to ignore the idiots of the world, there is no shortage of those!
Just a comment. Your site works just fine, the layout works although some things are clunky. Who cares? I get done what I need to do pretty efficiently. Some sites are a lot worse, so ... "you done good". If someone doesn't like it, they don't have to use your site.
@anatech It really sucks to lose all of that information. Good service docs (and component datasheets) make the job go so much smoother and easier. As for people who beat on you when they walk through the door, sometimes you have to fire them as a customer.
@canbol Perhaps a voluntary subscriber feature like Audiokarma and some other forums have? Subscription helps defray bandwidth costs, and maybe the subscriber gets bonus access of some kind.
Like I said before, I haven't uploaded any manuals to HFE because I really only buy common ones, and my scanner sucks noodles. HFE has been a real value for me over the last nearly two decades, I would be happy to give something back.
@canbol Perhaps a voluntary subscriber feature like Audiokarma and some other forums have? Subscription helps defray bandwidth costs, and maybe the subscriber gets bonus access of some kind.
Like I said before, I haven't uploaded any manuals to HFE because I really only buy common ones, and my scanner sucks noodles. HFE has been a real value for me over the last nearly two decades, I would be happy to give something back.
The automated system we have is near perfect (some might say draconian) at stopping spam registrations, and all but the most determined troll. It has to be as vinylengine has high traffic and a forum with no moderators, and hifiengine has much higher traffic, and comment forms, again with no moderators.
The manuals are a different story. The sheer quantity of people trying to register extra accounts to bypass download limits, or worse, scrape the site, is nuts. The more sophisticated scrapers now use residential proxies instead of datacenter IPs, regular email addresses, faked useragents and obscured browser fingerprints. Luckily most forget to change every variable for every attempt, so the system was able to block hundreds (sometimes thousands) of attempts daily. It was far from perfect though.
It seems there is no easy answer.
You mention the word 'draconian'. In that vein you could delete all user registrations and then only allow new signups who pay some nominal amount. That could be for access to say 3 or 4 downloads in a week (whatever might work) and charge a higher premium rate for say 3 or 4 downloads a day. Put limits on it.
The registration runs for 12 months at which point they have to resubscribe. No payment when registering and no access to downloads.
You mention the word 'draconian'. In that vein you could delete all user registrations and then only allow new signups who pay some nominal amount. That could be for access to say 3 or 4 downloads in a week (whatever might work) and charge a higher premium rate for say 3 or 4 downloads a day. Put limits on it.
The registration runs for 12 months at which point they have to resubscribe. No payment when registering and no access to downloads.
I did write a system which could charge either a registration or subscription fee through stripe, but my heart wasn't in it. I already have a full time job, this is just a hobby.
Amusingly, I tested it on a few unsuspecting visitors a year or so ago and refunded the $6.95 straight away. One guy that ended up with a free account thought it was very suspicious, and threatened to report me for fraud 😳
Ok, how about this: a member has to have a Paypal account (or similar external accounts that are widely available).
Nobody will be able to set up hundreds of spam Paypal accounts, they won't be allowed to do that.
There is a token fee per document, anything from $0.01 to $1.00, that is charged through the Paypal account.
If you want, at the end of each year the total amount charged to the member could be refunded via Paypal.
Nobody will be able to set up hundreds of spam Paypal accounts, they won't be allowed to do that.
There is a token fee per document, anything from $0.01 to $1.00, that is charged through the Paypal account.
If you want, at the end of each year the total amount charged to the member could be refunded via Paypal.
I dropped PayPal after they demanded information only my bank or government gets. They wouldn't even allow me to close my account unless I gave them that information. I had never had a complaint or problem with them before that.
So you can't count on a PayPal account. I use my credit card these days. You can do electronic bank transfers starting between Canada and the US. I wish there was some easy answer that didn't suck up a ton of time.
@canbol , I know what it's like when a hobby takes off. I don't think there are any easy answers here. Too bad some folks have to abuse anything out there and ruin things for all concerned, and I'm talking about you too.
So you can't count on a PayPal account. I use my credit card these days. You can do electronic bank transfers starting between Canada and the US. I wish there was some easy answer that didn't suck up a ton of time.
@canbol , I know what it's like when a hobby takes off. I don't think there are any easy answers here. Too bad some folks have to abuse anything out there and ruin things for all concerned, and I'm talking about you too.
@canbol
Please understand one thing.... no one in DIYAudio feels any entitlement for your site... we just enjoy your site and find it very unique and useful.
As you noted, two factor authentication is not workable for you.... OK.
So, what will it take to bring up your site to the point where you don't get swamped by bad actors?
Option 1 would be to make it hard, to put the person in the loop to authenticate the download request.
Option 2 would be to implement a subscription method that controls all downloading
Option 3 would be to implement a donation method that controls how many downloads a user can get.
You have said Option 1 is non workable. And Options 2 and 3 are not of your liking.
Paypal and credit card billing is a PITA indeed. They get you with all kinds of issues and might even force you to charge sales tax.
Then, seems like you're doing all the work.... are you incorporated?
Perhaps, a sindication schema with an existing related web site? Have someone else handle the library downloads?
Now, out of the box... (and don't yell, I'm just asking ).
The outfits that are scraping documents from your site... what do they do with the documents? Do you have watermarks on those documents that can be traced? Do those bad actors hurt you because they take the data or because the cost of the download proper? Seems like at the very least you are incurring the cost of the download.... so that should be the root cause of your damage...
So.... as engineers we would approach the solution in this manner:
Option 1 limit down the flow of downloads,
Option 2 generate income to cover the flow of downloads
We don't feel entitled here... just upset that the site is off.
It's very good however that this is all coming into the open. Perhaps if this had come to the open earlier your troubles would have been solved by now and we'd all be happy.
On a personal note... I figure I've downloaded like 25 manuals over the years. Half of which are brochures because I like the pretty pictures. If you feel I have been angry at you.... understand one thing... it got you motivated to post. And that wasn't "angry", that was the typical behavior you would see at a peer review where we really want to get to the bottom of things. It's never personal... it's always "just business".
You know, you got to break eggs to make an omelet.
So peace and let us know if you need/want help/support/whatever.
BTW, thanks for the site... it has been ( still is ) much appreciated.
Please understand one thing.... no one in DIYAudio feels any entitlement for your site... we just enjoy your site and find it very unique and useful.
As you noted, two factor authentication is not workable for you.... OK.
So, what will it take to bring up your site to the point where you don't get swamped by bad actors?
Option 1 would be to make it hard, to put the person in the loop to authenticate the download request.
Option 2 would be to implement a subscription method that controls all downloading
Option 3 would be to implement a donation method that controls how many downloads a user can get.
You have said Option 1 is non workable. And Options 2 and 3 are not of your liking.
Paypal and credit card billing is a PITA indeed. They get you with all kinds of issues and might even force you to charge sales tax.
Then, seems like you're doing all the work.... are you incorporated?
Perhaps, a sindication schema with an existing related web site? Have someone else handle the library downloads?
Now, out of the box... (and don't yell, I'm just asking ).
The outfits that are scraping documents from your site... what do they do with the documents? Do you have watermarks on those documents that can be traced? Do those bad actors hurt you because they take the data or because the cost of the download proper? Seems like at the very least you are incurring the cost of the download.... so that should be the root cause of your damage...
So.... as engineers we would approach the solution in this manner:
Option 1 limit down the flow of downloads,
Option 2 generate income to cover the flow of downloads
We don't feel entitled here... just upset that the site is off.
It's very good however that this is all coming into the open. Perhaps if this had come to the open earlier your troubles would have been solved by now and we'd all be happy.
On a personal note... I figure I've downloaded like 25 manuals over the years. Half of which are brochures because I like the pretty pictures. If you feel I have been angry at you.... understand one thing... it got you motivated to post. And that wasn't "angry", that was the typical behavior you would see at a peer review where we really want to get to the bottom of things. It's never personal... it's always "just business".
You know, you got to break eggs to make an omelet.
So peace and let us know if you need/want help/support/whatever.
BTW, thanks for the site... it has been ( still is ) much appreciated.
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Nope... "got" is a proper American Idiom.
https://english.stackexchange.com/q...-make-an-omelette-you-have-to-crack-a-few-egg
I reckon you guys in the White North speak almost the same language.... specially out here in the West.
Maybe you need to read more books.... 😉😒
https://english.stackexchange.com/q...-make-an-omelette-you-have-to-crack-a-few-egg
I reckon you guys in the White North speak almost the same language.... specially out here in the West.
Maybe you need to read more books.... 😉😒
Precisely my point Tony.
You have
or
You've got
Are perfectly acceptable.
Unfortunately you have invented your own version of proper English.
To admonish me in public when your inconsistencies are in full view, speaks volumes.
You are a very smart man. Please show it in your next post.
You have
or
You've got
Are perfectly acceptable.
Unfortunately you have invented your own version of proper English.
To admonish me in public when your inconsistencies are in full view, speaks volumes.
You are a very smart man. Please show it in your next post.
Agree with anatech, I'd avoid pay pal.
Kudos to your system. I've some idea how bad it is with a email server and a static http server. Cannot imagine the crap that comes your way. My email system has evolved over the years adding more and more stuff to reject spam. As the spammers evolve, so must I.
I think unless you have a server, you have no appreciation for just how many bad actors are out there.
Kudos to your system. I've some idea how bad it is with a email server and a static http server. Cannot imagine the crap that comes your way. My email system has evolved over the years adding more and more stuff to reject spam. As the spammers evolve, so must I.
I think unless you have a server, you have no appreciation for just how many bad actors are out there.
Just got a new toy.... P channel with Marauder FE.
Thanks guys.
^server... yes, running your own server is a PITA. Eons ago I decided to have my servers hosted by a 3rd party. Sure, it can be a PITA when they hose up, but I don't have to do much maintenance and they add the tools that I can then manage.
Thanks guys.
^server... yes, running your own server is a PITA. Eons ago I decided to have my servers hosted by a 3rd party. Sure, it can be a PITA when they hose up, but I don't have to do much maintenance and they add the tools that I can then manage.
I looked at Paypal when I was considering donations, but fees were all over the place, with a fixed fee, variable fee, cross-border fee and exchange rate fee, all region and currency dependent. You could accept very small payments, but it could cost more to receive than was sent (?), and chargeback would still be possible (and likely when taking lots of payments).
I did a bit of research looking for a way to take either donations, or a token payment at registration. I presumed that as some sites had donate buttons there was a 100% safe, anonymous way to make lots of small online payments. So far I haven't found one, unless you include crypto.
If I wanted to take lots of payments online and not be stung, I would treat it as a business and use a payment service provider. I would also be very cautious about my customers, and charge enough to cover fees and chargebacks. Really a minimum payment would need to be $5-10 from the outset, to cover initial fees, refunds and chargebacks, and not make a loss. It's just a guess though as I've never had a business taking small payments online.
Sorry for rambling on, but I really have been looking at all possible solutions for a long time.
Cutting costs is still my #1 option. Keeping the sites on a decent server, but moving the files to a budget one with a slow, but unmetered port could work. That way the sites would load, even if the file server was overloaded and timed out at busy times (like when bots visit, which is 24/7 these days). Ideally I'd like to get rid of registrations too and was looking at cloudflare (ugh!) to deal with scraping and bots. Sadly when I chatted with a rep there they didn't seem very sure about the amount of pdfs and current bandwidth usage. I think the answer was along the lines of you'll need to get a custom quote for that.
Hi canbol,
Just an opinion from a guy who ran a business. In general, get the best service that is reasonable in cost. Otherwise you'll always be dealing with problems. That is never worthwhile. Frustrating too, making this not fun.
Figure out a way to accept donations. Think of it as people trying to help you out for a very helpful and valuable service. We are grateful! You should be able to clear a more expensive, but better server solution and your members will be much happier too. Just concentrate on a solid server service with reasonable rates. I bet donations will more than cover your needs - and that is perfectly okay!
Just an opinion from a guy who ran a business. In general, get the best service that is reasonable in cost. Otherwise you'll always be dealing with problems. That is never worthwhile. Frustrating too, making this not fun.
Figure out a way to accept donations. Think of it as people trying to help you out for a very helpful and valuable service. We are grateful! You should be able to clear a more expensive, but better server solution and your members will be much happier too. Just concentrate on a solid server service with reasonable rates. I bet donations will more than cover your needs - and that is perfectly okay!
Ignoring stuff blocked at server firewall level (like China and Vietnam), my custom web firewall does the heavy lifting on bad bots. Sadly, even with IP block expirations, some users in places like Brazil or India can get temporarily blocked if they are assigned a recent bad IP.
US residential IP addresses are heavily featured in the current block list, but they were mostly from a single attack over several days and will expire soon.
https://www.hifiengine.com/bot_ip_blocked.php
https://www.vinylengine.com/bot_ip_blocked.php
How people cope when they just rent a server and put up a website I don't know. It's no wonder so many servers are compromised and used in attacks.