So, I’ve cloned the Devore O96. Now I want try the Heretic Loudspeaker A612.
Here’s what we know. Outside cabinet dimensions are 30.25” x 25.5” x 17.75” and made from are 3/4” birch plywood. The co-axial driver is a Faital Pro 12HX230 based on a photo on HL’s Facebook page (attached). A photo of the crossover is also on their Facebook page (attached). According to the HL website, the driver is 8 ohms and the crossover is at 1700 Hz using a 2nd order Linkwitz-Riley series crossover. From the photo it looks like there is an L-pad on the tweeter.
Anyone care to take a crack at the crossover schematic?
Here’s what we know. Outside cabinet dimensions are 30.25” x 25.5” x 17.75” and made from are 3/4” birch plywood. The co-axial driver is a Faital Pro 12HX230 based on a photo on HL’s Facebook page (attached). A photo of the crossover is also on their Facebook page (attached). According to the HL website, the driver is 8 ohms and the crossover is at 1700 Hz using a 2nd order Linkwitz-Riley series crossover. From the photo it looks like there is an L-pad on the tweeter.
Anyone care to take a crack at the crossover schematic?
Attachments
I think i did did some sims for that emnclosure, can’t find them, you are on your own for XO.
To my mind would can do a better box.
And to note, the designer says some things about the box he says are quite misleading.
dave
To my mind would can do a better box.
And to note, the designer says some things about the box he says are quite misleading.
dave
Well, I’m not too smart so hopefully someone else wants to take a crack at the crossover schematic - so I’m not on my own.
I wonder if they used textbook values-
OP/ manuf says 1700 hz, Impedance: WF8Ω/TW8Ω
Cross over picture shows 8.2 ufd cap and 10 ufd cap
see this chart 1500 and 2000 hz 8 ohm column
https://shop.koizumi-musen.com/?pid=145413356
You could scale out the parts for a guesstimate.
https://www.mundorf.com/audio/en/shop/Capacitors/Audio_Caps_EVO/
https://solen.ca/en/categories/inductors/products
OP/ manuf says 1700 hz, Impedance: WF8Ω/TW8Ω
Cross over picture shows 8.2 ufd cap and 10 ufd cap
see this chart 1500 and 2000 hz 8 ohm column
https://shop.koizumi-musen.com/?pid=145413356
You could scale out the parts for a guesstimate.
https://www.mundorf.com/audio/en/shop/Capacitors/Audio_Caps_EVO/
https://solen.ca/en/categories/inductors/products
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I doubt it.
This all i could quickly find other than places you can buy them. https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/12-coaxial-faital-pro-12hx230.314281/
A Zobel might allow for close to text book on the LP, but those 2 23Ω peaks right thru the XO reqion are gonna make a passive tricky.
Bi-amp might be the least painful. Digital would allow for the needed time delay usually required.
dave
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They obviously ignored those peaks. The cap values they are using are aligned with lower impedance values for a 1700 hz crossover. More like 4.7 ohm to 5.3 ohm.
You should start a new thread,
Faital Pro 12HX230 coaxial crossover needed.
--
Other options contact Faital Pro ask if they have a recommended crossover (with measurements). They should know.
Also vendors US Speaker, etc. They might recommend a generic 2 way crossover though.
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Some form of electronic crossover, Behringer , miniDsp, etc
This looks interesting (there are other similar models in the Pioneer line up)
https://ampslab-spk.com/2016/10/13/pioneer-fh-x731bt-car-receiver-for-home/
Faital Pro 12HX230 coaxial crossover needed.
--
Other options contact Faital Pro ask if they have a recommended crossover (with measurements). They should know.
Also vendors US Speaker, etc. They might recommend a generic 2 way crossover though.
--
Some form of electronic crossover, Behringer , miniDsp, etc
This looks interesting (there are other similar models in the Pioneer line up)
https://ampslab-spk.com/2016/10/13/pioneer-fh-x731bt-car-receiver-for-home/
If you can find a picture of the other side of the crossover board that would help.
If the Heretic is really using a 12 dB/octave series crossover, keep in mind that the topology is different and pretty uncommon. Most books don't include equations to calculate them. The site below does, but I've only read it. I haven't tried to implement it.
The first order series crossovers I've attempted have also been a different beast when compared to more typical designs. They're harder to model/predict/massage response of than parallel crossovers.
https://www.tubecad.com/2017/11/blog0402.htm
"I have never seen the Linkwitz-Riley crossover alignment applied to the series crossover topology, so I had to roll my own. It wasn't hard.
"
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oops-I missed the series crossover.
https://www.thehereticspeaker.com/ad612
say's, "Serial Linkwitz-Riley second order network
http://mh-audio.nl/Calculators/SLR2.asp
old info Andy Gradds Argos Loudspeakers (Australia), etc
https://web.archive.org/web/2003121...pg.com.au/users/gradds/series_cross-overs.htm
http://web.archive.org/web/20100528161050/http://members.optusnet.com.au/~gradds55/
https://web.archive.org/web/2003122...g.com.au/users/gradds/series_cross-oversK.htm
Acoustic Reality
http://web.archive.org/web/20040625235456/http://www.acoustic-reality.com/ar-sxo2.htm
https://www.thehereticspeaker.com/ad612
say's, "Serial Linkwitz-Riley second order network
http://mh-audio.nl/Calculators/SLR2.asp
old info Andy Gradds Argos Loudspeakers (Australia), etc
https://web.archive.org/web/2003121...pg.com.au/users/gradds/series_cross-overs.htm
http://web.archive.org/web/20100528161050/http://members.optusnet.com.au/~gradds55/
https://web.archive.org/web/2003122...g.com.au/users/gradds/series_cross-oversK.htm
Acoustic Reality
http://web.archive.org/web/20040625235456/http://www.acoustic-reality.com/ar-sxo2.htm
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Agreed! So what is the guess as to what these are? Two resistors in parallel on the tweeter? 0.9 ohms attenuation is only about 2db on the tweeter.
An L-Pad seems unlikely to me given the values. Any thoughts on this?
An L-Pad seems unlikely to me given the values. Any thoughts on this?
It's really hard to say with any certainty without more data.
Obviously the raw tweeter level needs to come down. If both resistors are in series with the tweeter, and the crossover is similar to the one I posted above, that gets you something like 2.6 dB attenuation. That doesn't seem like enough given the factory frequency response curves, but i haven't heard the Heretic speaker or seen any measurements of it. Power dissipation in the resistors would be good to about 150 watts of input.
If the two resistors are in an L-pad configuration on the tweeter, that would be more like 7.5 dB attenuation. Since the values are atypical for an L-pad at this impedance, this configuration would also seriously interact with a series crossover, changing the roll-off of both drivers. Is this an incorrect assumption or exactly what they intended? I don't know. Power dissipation is much higher in the resistors in this configuration, but only at high frequencies, so I'm not sure it would be a concern. They'd still be fine to 100 watts of input up to 2.5 kHz, but dissipation increases pretty quickly above there.
Obviously the raw tweeter level needs to come down. If both resistors are in series with the tweeter, and the crossover is similar to the one I posted above, that gets you something like 2.6 dB attenuation. That doesn't seem like enough given the factory frequency response curves, but i haven't heard the Heretic speaker or seen any measurements of it. Power dissipation in the resistors would be good to about 150 watts of input.
If the two resistors are in an L-pad configuration on the tweeter, that would be more like 7.5 dB attenuation. Since the values are atypical for an L-pad at this impedance, this configuration would also seriously interact with a series crossover, changing the roll-off of both drivers. Is this an incorrect assumption or exactly what they intended? I don't know. Power dissipation is much higher in the resistors in this configuration, but only at high frequencies, so I'm not sure it would be a concern. They'd still be fine to 100 watts of input up to 2.5 kHz, but dissipation increases pretty quickly above there.
Funny- you have 10 uf & 8.2 uf known capacitors.
using this Series Calculator to find inductor values.
http://mh-audio.nl/Calculators/SLR2.asp
inputting various "Z" values & 1700 hz
Z 9.4 = 9.96 uf & .88 mH (close enough to 10 ufd) (orange impedence on graph right side 1700 hz Z value ?)
Z 11.4 = 8.21 uf & 1.07 mh ***(see the blue impedence at 1700 hz it looks @ 12 ohms)
Still unknown coil values.
I reckon a solidly made amateur sim would score better than eyeballing inductor values. We used to teach newbies how to simulate stuff on regular basis for years.
Why would one copy completely unspecced and totally overpriced commercial designs? You can buy SOTA coaxial active Genelecs for that kind of money. Not copyable.
Go find a proven DIY coaxial design. You’ll save yourself a lot of uncertainty about getting the sound right. Just my 2ct.
Go find a proven DIY coaxial design. You’ll save yourself a lot of uncertainty about getting the sound right. Just my 2ct.