Help me to find the right 10” woofer for my 3way active

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#21
I think 30 liters is too much for midrange and would suggest replacing the Morel dome with a 4-5" midrange in a 4-5 liter cabinet.
Then you easily can go down to a crossover at 400 hz and a 10" driver for bass.
Those 2"-3" domes have too narrow field of operation and can't be used bellow 800 Hz.
Think you will appreciate the midrange much more in a well designed and damped 4 liter closed box.
 
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#22
With 50 liters closed volume and active filter/DSP you also have option of 2x8” woofer.

I would steer away from driver with heavy membrane and fat heavy surround. Generally they do good in bass, but lack good sound from 200 hz and up. You can’t see that from the graphs at all.
 
#23
mattstat said:
For no money, you can adjust your midrange's lower crossover point to about 700 Hz and 18 dB/octave. Give that a listen and see if the midrange handles it well given your typical music and playback levels. Listen to lots of different music over a few days. If you generally like the way that sounds, it gives you a little more flexibility in woofer options.

Or if you prefer to run the same 950 Hz cross point you are already using, I would suggest the SEAS A26RE4 or Satori WO24TX-8 (unless someone suggests something better). The choice here is mostly about whether you generally like older drivers or newer ones and whether you want to spend more money or less. The SEAS is more like a classic sealed box woofer in its design and materials. It's likely smooth and forgiving in its character. The Satori is modern, and quite a bit more expensive. It has a little better high frequency extension, but the roll-off is not as smooth. It is probably more resolving as well. With either of these, the woofer's the natural roll-off is likely to interact with the active crossover, so it might take some tuning to get that worked out. The SEAS claims to have a natural roll-off that will allow it to be used without a low-pass filter: that gives more options for how it is used.

Given that you have limited measurement/modeling abilities, I think the SEAS is probably the safer alternative if you want to cross to the midrange at a relatively high frequency.

When I'm working with a new driver, I normally buy one of it, put it in a cheap/fast/easy test box and listen to it with the other intended drivers. If I like it, then I'll design and build another better enclosure for it, buy the second driver, and listen to the pair extensively.
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I would definitely start some listening sessions crossing at 700hz and pay attention to details , lacking testing equipment and trusting the ears is not a good practice in this case …. I think…
I have owned quite a few “old style” speakers and honest truth I did not like their sound , always left me with a feeling that my amps could do better and when I moved to modern speakers/drivers, I was 100% audibly right … so light the SEAS is not for me ; Strongly considering the Satori . Thank you much appreciated your help on this !
 
#24
mayhem13 said:
?????

How bout one that doesn’t break up at all?

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...s-prestige-a26re4-h1411-10-paper-cone-woofer/

Still think you’re waaaay better off with adding another 8…….for lots of reasons. If you plan on crossing to the mid in the 750hz region, you have to make compromises in the alignment and positioning to maintain the listening axis…..which will still be midpoint between the dome and the tweeter. To avoid lobing with a 10, you’lll need to keep the woofer close to the mid and then higher up so away from the floor…..no boundary reinforcement and likely more floor bounce and another bull somewhere.
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How do I add an 8” woofer more and should it be the same woofer ,same cabinet ? Connected parallel? Sorry but is news to me …. Obviously I’m not aware a lot of parameters here and I might become a bit boring or even annoying, sorry if I’m falling to any of the above categories!
 
#25
flex2 said:
I think 30 liters is too much for midrange and would suggest replacing the Morel dome with a 4-5" midrange in a 4-5 liter cabinet.
Then you easily can go down to a crossover at 400 hz and a 10" driver for bass.
Those 2"-3" domes have too narrow field of operation and can't be used bellow 800 Hz.
Think you will appreciate the midrange much more in a well designed and damped 4 liter closed box.
Click to expand...
30Lt is my cabinet now , accommodating the 8” woofer ( Visaton TIW200XS) and I can go up to 50-55lt ( space wise ) so looking to a woofer that I can cross the midrange ( morel em 1308 ) at somewhere 700hz-950hz .
I do have a pair of mid-bass
( Visaton TL 16H) but I don’t want to move out the Morel mid …. It’s an awesome driver .
Thank though , if I hit a wall I might need to follow your advice …..
 
#26
Rokytheman said:
With 50 liters closed volume and active filter/DSP you also have option of 2x8” woofer.

I would steer away from driver with heavy membrane and fat heavy surround. Generally they do good in bass, but lack good sound from 200 hz and up. You can’t see that from the graphs at all.
Click to expand...
Thank you Rockytheman ! I see you are a Dane ? Leaving in Denmark? I’m actually in Denmark too .
I really don’t get how I can use 2x8” , it is mentioned above from an other member too …. is the one working as a mid bass ? Then Im looking for a 4way ?
 
#27
argou said:
Strongly considering the Satori
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You may want to go ported with that one. It will extend the low-frequency response significantly. Madisound's suggested ported alignments are:

1.5 cubic feet with 3" x 11" port for F3 of 33Hz

2.0 cubic feet with 3" x 10" port for F3 of 28Hz

It doesn't have to be perfectly either of those volumes, +/- 10% or something between them should be OK.

There's also the 4 ohm version of that driver if you want the extra voltage sensitivity and don't mind loading your amps down a little more

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-10-woofers/satori-wo24tx-4-9.5-textreme-woofer-4-ohm/
1.3 cubic feet with 3" x 11" port for F3 of 36Hz

1.75 cubic feet with 3" x 10" port for F3 of 32Hz

2.25 cubic feet with 3" x 9" port for F3 of 29Hz
 
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#29
mattstat said:
You may want to go ported with that one. It will extend the low-frequency response significantly. Madisound's suggested ported alignments are:

1.5 cubic feet with 3" x 11" port for F3 of 33Hz

2.0 cubic feet with 3" x 10" port for F3 of 28Hz

It doesn't have to be perfectly either of those volumes, +/- 10% or something between them should be OK.

There's also the 4 ohm version of that driver if you want the extra voltage sensitivity and don't mind loading your amps down a little more

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-10-woofers/satori-wo24tx-4-9.5-textreme-woofer-4-ohm/
1.3 cubic feet with 3" x 11" port for F3 of 36Hz

1.75 cubic feet with 3" x 10" port for F3 of 32Hz

2.25 cubic feet with 3" x 9" port for F3 of 29Hz
Click to expand...
Can we say that this one has a little better behaviour at braking up ?

https://www.soundimports.eu/en/sb-a...mEKFxeHFJhrK6jL0zjvlbrxfHGXTcUqoaArTTEALw_wcB
 
#30
By limiting your volume at 55 or so liters will be hindering an extended bottom end...By using a Visaton ten inch, model# W250S-8...and a Peerless DA32TX00-08 1 1/4 inch corundom dome tweeter in a two-way 115 liter enclosure, 1800 hertz crossover, ...tuned to 36 hertz, I get -3.1 Db @ 32.53 hertz. Pretty straightforward..

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Rick...
 
#31
Seas L26RFX/P. I play mine up to 220Hz. They will go higher.
1721508710353.png
 
#32
argou said:
Can we say that this one has a little better behaviour at braking up ?
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To me the TeXtreme version looks a little better for your application. This is mostly because the major breakup peak is smaller and it is higher in frequency than that of the papyrus version. The WO24P's peak at 3 kHz is up about 10 dB compared to its output at 1 kHz. That might be too much for your crossover to effectively suppress with a roughly 1 kHz cross point. 3 kHz is also in the zone where the average ear is most sensitive, so it's a bad spot to have a peak or general misbehavior that isn't pushed down enough.

The papyrus WO24P does maintain broader directivity up to a higher frequency than the WO24TX, so I can see why you likely viewed it positively, but the WO24P also seems more chaotic more quickly with increasing frequency.
 
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#33
As other have said, I think some of SB Acoustics TeXtreme are good choices that have much lower distortion, and also very uniform distortion where 2nd harmonic is higher and very linear with each other. Distortion in midrange around 0,1% which is extremely good.

Some simulations for interesting alternatives from left to right:

First yellow curve from left: Satori WO24TX-8 26 liter passive radiator
Second yellow curve from left: Satori WO24TX-4 26 liter passive radiator
Blue curve: SB Acoustics SB23NBAC45-8 32 liter sealed cabinet
Light green curve: Visaton TIW200XS 30 liter sealed cabinet
Dark green curve: Satori MW19TX-8 22 liter bass reflex cabinet
Purple curve: Satori WO24TX-8 27 liter sealed cabinet.

I assume you run your TIW200XS in a sealed cabinet, but I don't understand why you want to go to a 10" woofer.
Is it deeper and more powerful bass you want, or over all higher quality of sound with lower distortion than TIW200XS can provide?
SB23NBAC45-8 might be a budget alternativ to the TeXtremes...

Skärmbild 2024-07-21 004641.jpg
 
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#34
I'm a nay-sayer for Satori Textreme 50hz bass as I found my MW19TX-8 louder-to-the-ear at 40hz than 50hz, confirming a serious dip (as did more than one measurement chart taken by forum members who nevertheless denied it). Indeed I'm working on adding a sealed up-firing 10" (off-axis helps attenuate breakup) below the baffle-less 7.5" (and TW29R-4) in a kind of "LX" configuration.
 
#36
argou said:
How do I add an 8” woofer more and should it be the same woofer ,same cabinet ? Connected parallel? Sorry but is news to me …. Obviously I’m not aware a lot of parameters here and I might become a bit boring or even annoying, sorry if I’m falling to any of the above categories!
Click to expand...
Same driver…..yours is 8 ohms so two wired in parallel produce a nominal 4 ohm load……since you‘re active, no problem as long as the amp can handle a 4ohm load. Now we have an increase in efficiency from the amp AND two drivers…..two motors with better control….more surface area and displacement than a 10 as well. This means lower HD. But you don’t want/need both of those woofers playing the same passband…..the lower woofer or closer to the floor needs to be low passed so there’s no lobing with the mid from the longer center to center distance. This is accomplished with a simple .5 added network using a single coil wired in series between the upper and lower woofer. 200-250hz is a good range to experiment with. You can keep them in one enclosure, or seperate them into individual enclosures within the box…..you can also tune each enclosure independent of the other……lots of options. In the end, you wind up with a 3.5 way topology.
 
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#37
wchang said:
I'm a nay-sayer for Satori Textreme 50hz bass as I found my MW19TX-8 louder-to-the-ear at 40hz than 50hz, confirming a serious dip (as did more than one measurement chart taken by forum members who nevertheless denied it). Indeed I'm working on adding a sealed up-firing 10" (off-axis helps attenuate breakup) below the baffle-less 7.5" (and TW29R-4) in a kind of "LX" configuration.
Click to expand...
Not sure you should blame the driver.
Satori MW19TX-8 in a well designed cabinet fits a 30 m2 room.
Anything smaller than that will give a rise in lower bass around 30-40 Hz.
 
#38
argou said:
Thank you Rockytheman ! I see you are a Dane ? Leaving in Denmark? I’m actually in Denmark too .
I really don’t get how I can use 2x8” , it is mentioned above from an other member too …. is the one working as a mid bass ? Then Im looking for a 4way ?
Click to expand...
Yes Im living in Denmark 🙂. Nice, I see we are some Danes on the furum.

@mayhem13 gave good explation.

With good sim and not too High crossover I hope to be able to not need coil to cross between the two drivers I have in mind (Dayton RS225 Alu 8 ohm).

I admit Satori 9.5 inch Extreme look nice. With vented you Will have more headroom than closed cabinet. But, I dont think one of those pr side Will be enough to suit your goal of enough bass and High enough SPL.
 
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#39
I see you dont like to play Loud. Loud is relative. I rarely do that myself, but I Can say 9.5 in closed volume was not enough for bass heavy Music.

I believe you Will also get at better sense of weight in Sound, if you have enough displacement. BUT: if you havent properly adjusted baffelstep if Will Sound thin no matter the size of driver.

It is also about expectations. When you have no measurement mic and ‘no’ experience with crossover, it is close to impossibly to get a great result.

I have never seen the Sansui you have but I see one feature missing and that is ‘notch’ filters, so you can target specific frequency areas.
 
#40
flex2 said:
assume you run your TIW200XS in a sealed cabinet, but I don't understand why you want to go to a 10" woofer.
Is it deeper and more powerful bass you want, or over all higher quality of sound with lower distortion than TIW200XS can provide?
SB23NBAC45-8 might be a budget alternativ to the TeXtremes...
Click to expand...
Thank you for taking the time , I have actually followed a lot of your threads/posts and seems you are passionate in what you are doing and very helpful with all !

I’m running the TIW200XS in 30Lt with bass reflex , I choose a recommendation from Visaton for this driver and replicated the cabinet .
I’m looking for more quality in sound and a quality woofer to match the scan-speak tweeter and the Morel midrange quality.
I like bass , so a bit more controlled bass won’t “hurt” me …..
 
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