Help for a nice all around DIY kit for my setup

[cyruz]

Hi guys,

I need some help for my setup. I built by myself pre, amp and a network player but I never built a speaker before and I'm not good when it comes to wood work. For this reason, being my first try I would like to use some kind of pre-made kit.

I am looking at a full range bookshelf speaker set that can offer some good overall sounds, with clear mids and solid bass. I listen literally all kind of music.

Speakers will be installed on 50cm stands and replace my cheap Mission LX-2 on this setup:

ESS9023 based DAC
Kuartlotron pre
TPA3251 amp

My room layout is attached.


Any nice idea?

Cheers!

 

[xrk971]

Not a kit, but easy to make rectangular box. Perfect for stand mount and TPA3251 amp. I use TPA3255 and it sounds great. It is a FAST design (full range on top and a woofer to assist with bass and mid bass).

10F/8424 & RS225-8 FAST / WAW Ref Monitor

Photo may give you ideas as being similar to your room - even 0.6m stands:

Very simple 100% open source design. XO is simple to make P2P. Need access to Dayton RS225-8 - key ingredient that cannot be substituted.

 

[waxx]

Your amp is 175w stereo? Then i would build a waw with a subwoofer and a fullrange driver with a passive crossover. I build one with a Mark Audio 10M and a Scanspeak 26W/8534G00. I have no plans, only calculation, but the top is 11.5L sealed (and heavy stuffed), the sub is 77L sealed (and lightly stuffed). Your amp will be way to powerfull for this, as my setup is rated 60w (enough for 105dB in stereo).

An alternative setup i've designed and that is build by a friend was with the TB-1808 in a 30L sealed box and a SB 12-sb34nrx75-6 in a 80L sealed box.

Both are rather easy to build if you got basic carpenter skills, the most difficult is the crossover. But that is something you best let be done by someone with experience. The boxes exact dimensions are not to important, as long as you don't have 2 equal size parts, the top must be different size than the front/back or the sides (a cube is the worst you can do). This for the resonance of the box.

 

[waxx]

But you want a bookshelf that is predesigned: this is one that is designed, tested and liked by a lot of people. You can find a whole artikle about it in the german Hobby Hifi mag of 3/2018. The kit includes everything but the wood for the cabinet (but you have plans). You can buy it from Italy (as Germany and Italy are in the EU) and i can testify from personal experience, the shop is 100% legit. I buy a lot of stuff (no kits, more parts) from there for my own designs.: ScaMo 15AMT

 

[cyruz]

...

This is some serious stuff and it really looks like something that I could handle if I find somebody cutting the wood for me.

I forgot to state that I don't want to use a sub and this setup seems promising all over the range.

Thanks

...

140W, but I don't like the idea of a sub.

The TB-1808 in a 30L sealed box looks easy. What I have to expect from it in terms of performance?

I know the shop you linked, but that kit it's a little over my budget considering that I would have to build the box by myself. I don't feel confident to entrust a costly setup to my pretty basic carpenter skills.

Thanks

 

[xrk971]

Many cities have CNC plywood cutting services. Or find a local cabinet maker or wood worker friend.

The TL version goes down to 30Hz no sub. But is floor stander. Just don’t use stands.

 

[waxx]

It's true that most kits come without the box. That you need to make yourself, but the plans are included. Most cities have places with cnc cutting services for wood, and if you give the right plans, you receive a flatpack you just need to assemble yourself. I also use those services (I have 2 within half an hour driving from my home on the Belgian countryside), as i don't have a wood workshop, just a little shed next to my house, and a electronics lab in a spare room. And i do build large speakers there. This own design was build like that in the last 2 months. Crossover is still in development as you may see...

 

[waxx]

And if you want a really simple build, Just put a Mark Audio Alpair 10M gen 3 in a 20L box with a port of 5cm dia and 10cm long and you have a good basic reflex of 87db and 45-20K Hz response with a fullrange driver. That box will be in 18mm wood, 25cm wide, 40cm high and 34cm deep. Put the port in the front, and line the back, top and sides of the box with damping (polyfill or felt). I ran a variation of this speaker (same volume, different dimension and port on the back) for years when i was living in a small appartment in the city. That speaker is still in use by a friend who bought it when i build other speakers.

But your amp will be way to powerfull for that, this speaker likes more something like 15-25w. I used it with my Marantz PM5004 (45w per side) and that was already way to powerfull. Most bookcases will be like that btw, especially with fullrange drivers.

 

[perceval]

This is some serious stuff and it really looks like something that I could handle if I find somebody cutting the wood for me

The TB-1808 in a 30L sealed box looks easy. What I have to expect from it in terms of performance?

I know the shop you linked, but that kit it's a little over my budget considering that I would have to build the box by myself. I don't feel confident to entrust a costly setup to my pretty basic carpenter skills.

Thanks

The 1808 is a great driver, but it needs a notch or two done passively to make it sound great, so not the easiest as a first time try.

The design shown by X will blow away any single MA driver anytime.

It should be fairly easy to find someone to cut the wood for you based on X plans.

Either a small shop that does furniture like kitchen cabinet, or a friend that does some home renovations (bring a bottle of wine as trade!).

 

[cyruz]

Many cities have CNC plywood cutting services. Or find a local cabinet maker or wood worker friend.

The TL version goes down to 30Hz no sub. But is floor stander. Just don’t use stands.

Yeah my neighbor is a carpenter, but an old style one, working with solid wood and without access to any CNC machines.

Is plywood a requirement for these builds? About the cutting, is it susceptible of some small differences? (let's say 0,5 mm).

The TL version is very convincing but I have a strict 85 cm requirement, because the TV starts at 90 cm, so I guess that my only chance is to build a bookshelf. I was not able to find the plan for the bookshelf in your thread...

 

[cyruz]

It's true that most kits come without the box. That you need to make yourself, but the plans are included. Most cities have places with cnc cutting services for wood, and if you give the right plans, you receive a flatpack you just need to assemble yourself. I also use those services (I have 2 within half an hour driving from my home on the Belgian countryside), as i don't have a wood workshop, just a little shed next to my house, and a electronics lab in a spare room. And i do build large speakers there. This own design was build like that in the last 2 months. Crossover is still in development as you may see...

It's a nice small lab. I guess the WAF there is very low considering that you have that inside a separate shed

And if you want a really simple build, Just put a Mark Audio Alpair 10M gen 3 in a 20L box with a port of 5cm dia and 10cm long and you have a good basic reflex of 87db and 45-20K Hz response with a fullrange driver. That box will be in 18mm wood, 25cm wide, 40cm high and 34cm deep. Put the port in the front, and line the back, top and sides of the box with damping (polyfill or felt). I ran a variation of this speaker (same volume, different dimension and port on the back) for years when i was living in a small appartment in the city. That speaker is still in use by a friend who bought it when i build other speakers.

But your amp will be way to powerfull for that, this speaker likes more something like 15-25w. I used it with my Marantz PM5004 (45w per side) and that was already way to powerfull. Most bookcases will be like that btw, especially with fullrange drivers.

I have a pre, generally I'm very cautious with volume and I don't listen at very high volume.

This seems quite easy. Can 10 cm of height be traded for more width?

 

[cyruz]

The 1808 is a great driver, but it needs a notch or two done passively to make it sound great, so not the easiest as a first time try.

The design shown by X will blow away any single MA driver anytime.

It should be fairly easy to find someone to cut the wood for you based on X plans.

Either a small shop that does furniture like kitchen cabinet, or a friend that does some home renovations (bring a bottle of wine as trade!).

Yeah I'm gathering info for the moment. My idea was to find a pre-made kit first to get some confidence. Everytime I tried DIY from zero I always ended up having to redo something for a trivial mistake due to the missing experience.

 

[waxx]

It's a nice small lab. I guess the WAF there is very low considering that you have that inside a separate shed









I have a pre, generally I'm very cautious with volume and I don't listen at very high volume.



This seems quite easy. Can 10 cm of height be traded for more width?

The size is not that important. It’s the inner volume that count. Something like 30w x 35h x 28d does also work.

 

[perceval]

Yeah I'm gathering info for the moment. My idea was to find a pre-made kit first to get some confidence. Everytime I tried DIY from zero I always ended up having to redo something for a trivial mistake due to the missing experience.

Hey, we've all been there!
I still make dumb mistakes from time to time and wonder how I am going to patch it up!

That's why it's called experience....

About the other post... we usually use plywood as it is the easiest, but in the hands of a skilled carpenter, solid wood is ok too. Just need to match the grain.

But again... if you are going after experience, there's nothing like doing it yourself.
You will make mistakes, you will correct them, and in the end, it may or may not look like the vision you had in your head, but if the sound does come through, then you will be proud of what you did.

And be careful... it can become an addiction!

 

[xrk971]

Don’t forget that speakers made from foam core or XPS foam can sound excellent and not require a woodworking shop. Also good for making a pathfinder to assess if the design is worth committing to a wood or plywood build.

 

[cyruz]

Thanks for all the info guys.

It will be a journey as usual when starting with new diy so I'm reading a lot after I started this post.

I decided to try with a very simple build first, possibly a single full-range, as suggested by waxx but I would like to add a bass reflex. Then if I'm successful, I'll scale to xrk971 FAST build.

I will follow the suggestion and start with XPS foam before committing to wood.

Few more questions for you:

1. An eventually good sounding and aesthetically pleasing XPS foam box, would continue to sound good if enclosed in a thin layer of plywood, glued to the foam itself? Like a kind of case, with the plus that the plywood could be polished and painted before gluing it.

2. Regarding the build, what do you think about this solution, that seems to expand on waxx suggestion with a bass reflex: Mark 4

Will it offer enough bass for my small room setup?

The height is a restriction or also in this case I can trade some height with width, while keeping the volume?

Do speaker and bass port have to be so decentered for this build to be effective? The specs look good but it's kinda odd looking.

 

[xrk971]

Yes, veneer covered XPS looks great and sounds even better than all wood due to natural dampening abilities (assuming well-braced build).

If you want a good inexpensive first full range with bass. Make a rectangular box bass reflex or MLTL with a W5-2143. It has gobs of bass that is loud enough for your room. It is also smooth and flat in frequency response and made with a rugged cast aluminum frame.

We (I and Perceval) can help you design either a BR bookshelf or a MLTL floorstander. (I am volunteering Perceval because I know he can design this in his sleep )

The MLTL has the advantage that it is a floorstander so needs no stand or bookshelf space. You don’t really want to put it on a bookshelf anyway.

Edit: actually, Bjorn has already designed a MLTL (Tabaq) for W5-2143. Nothing left to do but build it!

TABAQ TL for Tang Band

 

[perceval]

No worries,X.

I love my MLTLs.

 

[cyruz]

I evaluated the TABAQ after one the previous message suggestions, but sadly I have an height limit of 85 cm.

If you or perceval could help with the layout of a bassy bookshelf (<= 35cm) or floorstander (<= 85cm), with a W5-2143 it would be great

 

[xrk971]

You can fold it and put the driver still 11 in away from closed end and make total line 39in. Total height plus wood thickness assuming 1/2in plywood would be about 22in tall. Driver would be near the top and vent would go out the back. There are other ways to fold it as long as you adhere to the basic formula.

This was for a smaller 3in driver so not for 5in.

TABAQ TL for Tang Band

Here is a slot reflex design that’s nice and compact and will get you about 55Hz bass. Key dimensions are (internal) 8.0in wide x 9.5in deep x 12.0in high. Vent is 0.5in gap x 8.0in wide x 5.75in deep. Line inside walls with eggcrate foam, or carpet padding, or (best) melamine eraser foam pads. Add a puff of polyfill internally. Use a baffle step correction of 1.0mH 18ga inductor (air core or iron core) and 3.3ohm (adjust to taste) 10w resistor to balance the highs and bass.