It's a bit like LCDs vs old-school phosphors, or OLEDs. In the early days, the inconsistent screen brightness of LCDs produced a distracting stereo vision effect for me, but the flicker-free screens eventually won (in the early 2000s some manufacturers seemed determined to find out the hard way if buyers would notice flickering backlights).
With my experiments with open baffles and aperiodic boxes, it's just different. Most natural sound sources are not monopoles anyway, so room reflections from boxed speakers are by no means more 'realistic'. That said, I generally make boxed speakers because they are a lot more convenient and do some things better. But I'm also not too worried about out-of-phase box vibrations colouring the off-axis ambient sound.
With my experiments with open baffles and aperiodic boxes, it's just different. Most natural sound sources are not monopoles anyway, so room reflections from boxed speakers are by no means more 'realistic'. That said, I generally make boxed speakers because they are a lot more convenient and do some things better. But I'm also not too worried about out-of-phase box vibrations colouring the off-axis ambient sound.
Nobody can answer your question with any degree of accuracy because a sub doesn't work in isolation. You have to consider your mains. You must also consider gain as well as frequency.
e.g. My mains have 6.5" ported woofers and are 'good' (-3db) down to 55hz.
My sub has an 8" ported driver and is 'good' (-3db) down to 35hz.
Both systems can cover the majority of the lower frequencies. So, you listen for quality at the preselected crossover points. Typically you are asking the question: who can best reproduce 100hz, the two 6.5s or the single 8?
I run 2 x JL Audio F112v1 subs with 2 x Boulder MKI active monitors using active crossover Minidsp Flex.
I started at 80hz but now use 167hz 24db/Link-Riley both low and high pass.
This was instigated by the Boulder manufacturer(Unity Audio) who sell a sub(Babe) setup and its default crossover setting is 167hz 24dbLR.
Seemed pretty high but boy this did make a difference to the boulder's treble presentation. My subs seem to handle it also with no localisation. Still listening but can't go back to old settings. The Boulders which have Elac ribbon tweeters did tend to be on the bright side with lower crossover frequencies. This has been ameliorated now. F112's are flat to 150hz then roll off slowly.
I started at 80hz but now use 167hz 24db/Link-Riley both low and high pass.
This was instigated by the Boulder manufacturer(Unity Audio) who sell a sub(Babe) setup and its default crossover setting is 167hz 24dbLR.
Seemed pretty high but boy this did make a difference to the boulder's treble presentation. My subs seem to handle it also with no localisation. Still listening but can't go back to old settings. The Boulders which have Elac ribbon tweeters did tend to be on the bright side with lower crossover frequencies. This has been ameliorated now. F112's are flat to 150hz then roll off slowly.
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Old topic. In a lab, some localization when you edge north of 80 Hz but has to be quite a lot higher at home for spatial cue.
With clean drivers (no tell-tale harmonics), sharp XO slopes, and maybe some room adjustments, many have reported to 120 Hz.
With a Klipschorn bass, I ran over 130 Hz with very large separation of woofer (needs a corner, eh), a bass horn is certainly the cleanest woofer, large panel ESLs (for great room-filling ambience that meshes nicely with Klipsch room-filling bass), and 18dB/8ave (or more with DSP). I don't recall ever playing any music with spatial distortion in the sound or where my eyes ever darted to the woofer to see if the side drum in Mahler's 3rd was hidden there.
With clean drivers (no tell-tale harmonics), sharp XO slopes, and maybe some room adjustments, many have reported to 120 Hz.
With a Klipschorn bass, I ran over 130 Hz with very large separation of woofer (needs a corner, eh), a bass horn is certainly the cleanest woofer, large panel ESLs (for great room-filling ambience that meshes nicely with Klipsch room-filling bass), and 18dB/8ave (or more with DSP). I don't recall ever playing any music with spatial distortion in the sound or where my eyes ever darted to the woofer to see if the side drum in Mahler's 3rd was hidden there.
I'm amused that the majority of users want define every issue down to a spreadsheet calculation. Subwoofer drivers are basically grunts, they're good at grunting because that's what they're designed to do.
It's about quality. The sole function of a x-over is to send the signal to the best man for the job. If a single subwoofer can reproduce 100hz better than a pair of woofers - your woofers are crap.
It's about quality. The sole function of a x-over is to send the signal to the best man for the job. If a single subwoofer can reproduce 100hz better than a pair of woofers - your woofers are crap.
We basically started with single cone 'broad range' drivers.
We then went onto 'twin-cone' drivers with an improvement of high frequencies.
We then got clever and realized the advantage of (wow) two way speakers.
We then arrived at the 'general' standard of 3way > sharing the spectrum with 3 drivers.
It is no surprise that with newer Sub-drivers we can yet again improve upon prior.
It is my opinion that there should be twin subwoofers IE one per channel > rather than a single.
It is also my opinion that Subs can work nicely up to 200Hz.
PASSIVE vs ACTIVE is probably up for great debate.
PS.
That is 180Hz flat & 200Hz being in 'roll-off'.
We then went onto 'twin-cone' drivers with an improvement of high frequencies.
We then got clever and realized the advantage of (wow) two way speakers.
We then arrived at the 'general' standard of 3way > sharing the spectrum with 3 drivers.
It is no surprise that with newer Sub-drivers we can yet again improve upon prior.
It is my opinion that there should be twin subwoofers IE one per channel > rather than a single.
It is also my opinion that Subs can work nicely up to 200Hz.
PASSIVE vs ACTIVE is probably up for great debate.
PS.
That is 180Hz flat & 200Hz being in 'roll-off'.
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Also everybody has tried it. Every branded home theatre system on the market sets a high crossover point. Hoffman's Iron Law dictates there must be a least 1 big box. The more bass frequencies directed to the sub, the smaller (and more pathetic) they can make the satellites. Typically, these system use cross-over frequencies between 120 & 160hz. The results are underwhelming.
No sweat. Some people just have a backwards philosophy because they are visual creatures:
A nice big HT projector screen + dinky little satellites because if they look too big they'll clash with other visual stuffage in the room. Or a closet the size of a TARDIS -- again: clothes, visual fashion, yet the subwoofer must not protrude from behind the PC monitor -- wth? So they get the results to suit.
A nice big HT projector screen + dinky little satellites because if they look too big they'll clash with other visual stuffage in the room. Or a closet the size of a TARDIS -- again: clothes, visual fashion, yet the subwoofer must not protrude from behind the PC monitor -- wth? So they get the results to suit.
Bose!!! On best buy you can see and heard those "surround" state of the art systems with 3" satélites for rear and front and center, and to me they don't sound HIFI or HT good, they sound boxy and honky.
Has anyone tried setting the subwoofer frequency above 100 Hz?
Yes. It wasn't good in my personal case :I use my sub to complement the infra-bass of my speakers, that have a natural frequency cut-off at circa 50Hz to 70Hz depending on the model. If the response of the sub overlaps that natural frequency cut-off, the sound is muddy, so I usually set the sub FC at 40Hz 24dB/oct (50Hz) and 40Hz 12dB/oct (70Hz) with correct phasing.
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My 5" Monitor Audio Studio 2 with 8" Jamo subs worked best when (0) monitors' rear ports plugged; (1) subs flipped up to face forward; (2) cutoff and volume adjusted together so as to integrate smoothly and be barely noticed; (3) the continuous phase adjustment knob was used to make upper bass sound fullest. If only a polarity toggle was available the overlap region would likely sound hollow due to interference.
A lot bizarre comments focussing on frequency response. It doesn't work that way. All 3-way speakers are basically flat for 60Hz to 20Khz. Some cost $50, some $5,000. Remarkably, despite what the sims say they all sound different.
It's not a case of if a sub driver responds to 100Hz - it's all about the how. A bonafide woofer will out-perform a sub. I listen to a lot of Jazz Funk / Funk / UK Garage. In these genres the bass often the lead, it's was what carries the tune. I don't believe most sub-drivers have the fidelity to keep up.
Try this.
Square Biz
On my Cinema system the sub's grunts drown out the intricacies of the bass man's work.
It's not a case of if a sub driver responds to 100Hz - it's all about the how. A bonafide woofer will out-perform a sub. I listen to a lot of Jazz Funk / Funk / UK Garage. In these genres the bass often the lead, it's was what carries the tune. I don't believe most sub-drivers have the fidelity to keep up.
Try this.
Square Biz
On my Cinema system the sub's grunts drown out the intricacies of the bass man's work.