You're not going to get that much of a difference in driver size. 😉 Generally the brace is a couple of mil off, padded with felt / whatever.
Regarding a lack of bass punch, I designed it to be accurate rather than having a load of false gain on the bottom end, so it might simply be that. If you want more heft or to go lower, you'll want dedicated woofers.
With 207s, they shouldn't really need a correction cicruit, especially positioned where they are in the picture above. The cabinet produces gain higher up than MLTLs et al, which helps counter that. Most of these boxes have been built with 206s for some reason, which they are not designed for, & I suspect the circuits are primarily correcting for the driver's naturally rising response rather than major step loss issues.
Regarding a lack of bass punch, I designed it to be accurate rather than having a load of false gain on the bottom end, so it might simply be that. If you want more heft or to go lower, you'll want dedicated woofers.
With 207s, they shouldn't really need a correction cicruit, especially positioned where they are in the picture above. The cabinet produces gain higher up than MLTLs et al, which helps counter that. Most of these boxes have been built with 206s for some reason, which they are not designed for, & I suspect the circuits are primarily correcting for the driver's naturally rising response rather than major step loss issues.
Don't judge the bass until you have at least a hundred hours on them. But you will need a woofer to get the last octave. Using a woofer for the last octave & a half or 2 will improve the mids if you roll off the bottom of the HC.
dave
dave
Thank's for all the reply's' for my quistion... Well i am not dissapointed about my HC... it's just as i asked, if it would be possible to use a sub with them.
Regarding the BSC, i used none, as scott said, it's not nessasary with them 207'er.
Regarding the closeness of the internal holeybrace/driver, it's firmly touching eachother, only some soft banding between them (See post #204).
Scott, this was excatly, what i bellived ... and as i wrote before, the sound is very very clean ... they are very good sounding speakers ... period ! Scott, when you write woofer, you mean subwoofer ?
Regarding the BSC, i used none, as scott said, it's not nessasary with them 207'er.
Regarding the closeness of the internal holeybrace/driver, it's firmly touching eachother, only some soft banding between them (See post #204).
Scott, this was excatly, what i bellived ... and as i wrote before, the sound is very very clean ... they are very good sounding speakers ... period ! Scott, when you write woofer, you mean subwoofer ?
lykkedk said:Scott, this was excatly, what i bellived ... and as i wrote before, the sound is very very clean ... they are very good sounding speakers ... period ! Scott, when you write woofer, you mean subwoofer ?
Not really. Most of the bass punch you're refering to is unlikely to actually be in the sub-bass regions at all (which I suppose has now become something of a generic term for anything under ~40Hz), but up between about 60Hz - 120Hz. That's where the majority of the bass energy in rock is, for example. So, if you find you want some raw clobber, a pair of good quality, decent sized woofers would be just the ticket. Especially at high SPLs -there's only so much an FR driver can do. A couple of subs, crossed over fairly high (about 100Hz) would also do OK, though it's not really what they're designed for.
Still, as Dave says, give the drivers a couple of hundred hours before making any major decisions -they'll need that long to get the suspension loosened up. You can help them along by cranking up anything with a decent amount of LF dynamics. Pink Floyd in Pompii springs to mind. Last resort, you could stick a passive circuit on them to shape the FR however you like it. I'd be astonished if you needed to resort to that though -my own MLTLs are positioned in a similar way to your speakers, have a narrower passband, the slimmest front baffle I could give them, & don't need any at all. And I like my rock. YMMV.
lykkedk said:
The intent of the holey brace is that it firmly brace the driver thru to the back of the cabinet, but without stressing the driver when you tighten it down. This is tricky to get perfect -- not impossible, Chris is usually right on -- so leaving a tiny bit of space and using a shim (it should be fairly ridgid) to get it perfect is probably easiest.
dave
planet10 said:
Will it really make that much of a difference if the brace is not in firm contact with the driver considering the brace and the way it is used?
G said:
Yes. Without firm contact the reaction energy from the driver will be input into just the baffle instead of spreadout thruout the cabinet. With less energy per volume unit there is less likelihood of exciting a resonance & more of the natural damping of the plywood can br utilized.
dave
What about a bit of tape on the magnet and epoxy?
the tape is there for a weak point to allow you to remove the driver in future.
the tape is there for a weak point to allow you to remove the driver in future.
This is something, i really used a lot of time to archive the perfect match, when building them. I used some red ''carpetlike'' tape, to sim up, for perfect touch (without making it to tight) during assambly of speakers (my holeybrace is placed like on drawing's post#201).
I really didn't belive in that, before now, i thought it was something which was said to get people used to theyr'e new speaker's by commercial 😉
Jesper.
Hi...thought I had decided to build a pair of Metronomes for my Trends TA10 and Fostex 168es, which would be my first voyage into diy hifi but now I am beginning to thing the HC would be better for bass..
Lousymusician, I note your comments about the two designs but also realise you are using different drivers for the two designs.
I also appreciate that a Trends T10 might not be ideal for a Fullrange design, but it is what I have.
Any thoughts or comments..?
Many thanks.
Lousymusician, I note your comments about the two designs but also realise you are using different drivers for the two designs.
I also appreciate that a Trends T10 might not be ideal for a Fullrange design, but it is what I have.
Any thoughts or comments..?
Many thanks.
Soo, here is my final result! - Nice BobTrancho clones 😉
I have been listning to them, for 4~5hour's now(No burn in), and i must confess, that i find them very clear in sound... well allmost to clear for my taste i must say.... Dave told me this before in this thread :
Well, i have only been playing with them for around 4~5hour's, as i told before, but is it really true, that the sound will change dramatically after some hundred hour's ??? - I find it a bit hard to bellive through.
I was writing in another post in this thread, that i was really satisfied with them, but i kindoff changed my mind a bit about that, after listning to them intensily. I think the sound, is like a bit distorted, but not with all music !!! ... Most modern pop-music sounds worse on thoose speaker's, than on my old one's. Is it driverbreakin time? is it the purity clear sound (Real i think) which is problem, or is it just me?? or is it, that i now can hear bad-recording's very clear ???Please help me out 😕
I tried different thing's, to sort out my problem, thirst i was thinking it was an Amp problem, so i disconnected all my PassDIY gear, and attached my LeachAmp directly to my CD Variable out... The sound is still strange to me... so it was not my amp's...
I will try to descripe what i found not to like my taste :
A bit (only bit) lack off bass (proberly come after breakin, as Dave wrote)
Guitar-distortion like sound (hard to explain)
Very high Top, and topend sound. (A little distorted i think, but not with all music)
Jesper
I have been listning to them, for 4~5hour's now(No burn in), and i must confess, that i find them very clear in sound... well allmost to clear for my taste i must say.... Dave told me this before in this thread :
Well, i have only been playing with them for around 4~5hour's, as i told before, but is it really true, that the sound will change dramatically after some hundred hour's ??? - I find it a bit hard to bellive through.
I was writing in another post in this thread, that i was really satisfied with them, but i kindoff changed my mind a bit about that, after listning to them intensily. I think the sound, is like a bit distorted, but not with all music !!! ... Most modern pop-music sounds worse on thoose speaker's, than on my old one's. Is it driverbreakin time? is it the purity clear sound (Real i think) which is problem, or is it just me?? or is it, that i now can hear bad-recording's very clear ???Please help me out 😕
I tried different thing's, to sort out my problem, thirst i was thinking it was an Amp problem, so i disconnected all my PassDIY gear, and attached my LeachAmp directly to my CD Variable out... The sound is still strange to me... so it was not my amp's...
I will try to descripe what i found not to like my taste :
A bit (only bit) lack off bass (proberly come after breakin, as Dave wrote)
Guitar-distortion like sound (hard to explain)
Very high Top, and topend sound. (A little distorted i think, but not with all music)
Jesper
Attachments
lykkedk said:
Get a 100 hrs on them and then you tell us.
With these SS amps you probably want to run solid skinny speaker wire... no firehouse stuff...
dave
"but is it really true, that the sound will change dramatically after some hundred hour's ???"
It's not too hard to find out for yourself, if you have a spare little amp and a basement or other section of the house that is little used. Face the speakers together, wired out of phase, turn up the volume until it doesn't quite annoy you in other parts of the house. Leave em playing the radio for a week. Particularly if you are not pleased with the sound of them at the moment, it'll be over before you know it. Beats suffering with them while they break in. Play 'em while you're at work if you don't have a spot to hide them while they make noise.
If you do it quick like that and don't listen while they're changing, you'll be more likely at the end to be able to say that the speakers have changed rather than that you have gotten used to them.
The high end of my 167s was ameliorated by the addition of some foam tape (squishable door/window insulation type) between the magnet and the holey brace. But the faces of mine are not yet glued up as I finalize my stuffing, so YMMV.
Hope you end up liking them, because the sure look nice. 🙂
It's not too hard to find out for yourself, if you have a spare little amp and a basement or other section of the house that is little used. Face the speakers together, wired out of phase, turn up the volume until it doesn't quite annoy you in other parts of the house. Leave em playing the radio for a week. Particularly if you are not pleased with the sound of them at the moment, it'll be over before you know it. Beats suffering with them while they break in. Play 'em while you're at work if you don't have a spot to hide them while they make noise.
If you do it quick like that and don't listen while they're changing, you'll be more likely at the end to be able to say that the speakers have changed rather than that you have gotten used to them.
The high end of my 167s was ameliorated by the addition of some foam tape (squishable door/window insulation type) between the magnet and the holey brace. But the faces of mine are not yet glued up as I finalize my stuffing, so YMMV.
Hope you end up liking them, because the sure look nice. 🙂
Ok Dave, as you say 😉
Ok AdamThorne I'll do what you told me too, for a week or so 😉
Thank's for keeping my mind (and ears) up guy's...
Actually, i have just ordred some different coils, and a resistorsort-box. It is a speakerproject, i do for my mom and Dad, repairing theyr'e old B&O loudspeaker's. Replacing the Tweeter/Mid and Bass with a Visaton BG20 fulltone, which fit's in that very old B&O chassis.
I will try, to make them sound acceptable, with or without a BSC filter, so what's left from coil's/resistor's i have to experiament with, with my HalfChang's, when they'e done burning in (6-7 x 24hour's i guess)... I will let you know.
Jesper.
Attachments
I've got a newbie construction question. It appears that some of you are finishing the side pieces prior to permanently attaching them. Are you finishing the inside also, or are you waiting to glue them in place before finishing the inside?
I plan on leaving the sides off until I've got them 'stuffed', but I've never built anything this size before, so I thought I'd ask ahead of time.
Thanks in advance,
Mike.
I plan on leaving the sides off until I've got them 'stuffed', but I've never built anything this size before, so I thought I'd ask ahead of time.
Thanks in advance,
Mike.
Scott, Dave..I have now decided on pair of half chili changs for my fostex168es. I found dimensions on another thread for fostex 167 half chili chang (HCC I suppose).
Can I use those..?? If not is there a drawing avail..as I have looked everywhere.
Thanks
Can I use those..?? If not is there a drawing avail..as I have looked everywhere.
Thanks