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Group order of switched ladder attenuator? Anyone interested?

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#121
LastStop, Yoke, and All,

I intended this to be a Wiki, so don't worry if you can't pay by a certain date, the price I listed is too high, etc. It is intended to express interest only. The more people who express intent to buy, the lower the price goes. Maybe someone would like to send emails to those on the Wiki letting them know that there is going to be a mini-group buy??? Just an idea.

As far as "cutoff days," Monday will be the last day to increase the order beyond 15 units since I'm placing the order Monday morning.

As far as putting your name on this "Wiki," please continue to express interest until I say that all units have shipped.

Yoke... If all goes well, I will have these ready to ship out the 18th of June. Thus, you would secure a spot until the 28th of June. But you only get "booted" thereafter if there is continued interest after all the units are accounted for. I realize the June 28th and July 1st are only a few days apart, but I stated that the cutoff would be 10 days, and I must stick to it. I did that to protect myself and to make it fair for everyone.

Current list:
bryman79 - 1
6H5C - 1
Praudio - 3
pkpickard - 1
rpafenberg - 2
BrianGT - ??? (BrianGT will remain here until he expresses that he is not interested)
LastStop - 1
Yoke - 2

TOTAL - 11

Let's keep 'em coming!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Regards,
Bryan
 
#122
Hi bryman79
Your delay is very short(3days),please give at least until next Friday,I am sure you will be closed to the original target of 50pcs.
I am also in need for 3 series Elma switch(this will avoid placing an
other order, and this can help to get good price from dristributor).
Mailing to Canada (by USPS)is no problems........problems start
with UPS/FEDEX .
 
#124
Re: Hello Brian GT

Praudio said:
What is the Elma part number for the stereo 23pos. series switch?

Thank's
Click to expand...


The series switch part number is 04A2A00, while the ladder is 04A2R00.

Here is the Elma page for the ladder:
04A2R00

Here is the Elma page for the series:
04A2A00

Bryan:

As for the ladder attenuator, I do not think that I will need any at this time. I would actually prefer the series attenuator, as I think that it should work fine with the gainclone. I have considered building one using all Riken resistors, as I heard of a commercial product using a series attenuator with Riken resistors.

Can you check on pricing and availability for the series units?

--
Brian
 
#125
Okay... I've spoken with the others who indicated that they would like the units ASAP, and we all agree that we can wait until Friday to place the order. I'm not going to make an estimate as to shipping date yet, but my contact at Elma indicated that I could pick them up a day or two after ordering and that he had at least 50 in stock.

I will check early next week and see what the series attenuators cost, if they will help reduce the price of the ladder order, etc. However, it would help a lot to have a good idea of how many units will be ordered so I don't have to email the guy another 20 times before I actually place the order. So if you are reading this and think you are interested (and not on the list, of course), then hop to it and post! 🙂

Here's the list thus far:

Ladder (04A2R00)
bryman79 - 1
6H5C - 1
Praudio - 3
pkpickard - 1
rpafenberg - 2
LastStop - 1
Yoke - 2
TOTAL - 11

Series (04A2A00)
Praudio - 3
BrianGT - 1
TOTAL - 4

Regards,
Bryan
 
#127
Series or Ladder

I've read quiet a bit on this subject this is why I don't make claims as to being a expert on this subject for myself only thru being self taught. This is what I've arrived at the Ladder is the best because it will only have two resistors in series at any given position it has a slight edge over the series type though probable in only a very high resolution system.The other type that I find is called a series shunt type which appears to be the best in bang for the buck a series type can be configured into the series shunt also with the laddertype it will need about twice the resistors to impleament.So for me my vote is on the Series Shunt unless a Ladder can be put together for nearly the same cost? or within $20 of a series type.So if you would put me in for one series type
 
#128
In my experience there is more to a good sounding attenuators that just the parts used to make them.

I once tried fixed series/variable shunt configuration with 5K tantalum resistor and 50K Nobel pot and to my surprise the pot by itself sounded better.

If some of you think that building a series attenuator out of Riken resistors will bring good results... well, it may or it may not😉
 
#130
Peter Daniel said:
In my experience there is more to a good sounding attenuators that just the parts used to make them.

I once tried fixed series/variable shunt configuration with 5K tantalum resistor and 50K Nobel pot and to my surprise the pot by itself sounded better.
Click to expand...


Not appled and apples. Different source input load as well as different output load. Not a good way to evaluate a comparison.
 
#132
The series resistance is not the input impedance. Even being the same for both, the input impedance would be different.

Further, liking a pot of one resistor material vs. a pot/resistor combination with an additional, different material, is not a very convincing apples vs. apples comparsion for suggesting a pot may be better than a fixed series/variable shunt arrangement.
 
#133
I'm not that much concerned with apples, but with the same series resistance, and same attenuation, those attenuators CAN be fairly compared, as the shunt resistance equals as well.

Further, I'm not saying that pot is better than fixed/variable shunt combiantion. It just happened in this case, but I put together a different attenuator (using different parts) and being a fixed series resistor/switching shunt cofiguration, it ouperforms any pot I tried so far.
 
#134
Hello All,

For those who are interested, a couple months ago when I was inquiring about the ladder attenuators, the guy at Elma accidently quoted me for the series unit (04A2A00): $59.73 (not including CA tax). I assume this is the price up through 9 units. However, I will see what I can work out later this coming week.

ITZBITZ, the price excluding Paypal fees and shipping is tenatively $86. Looking through my Paypal account, credit card fees range from 3.2% to 3.35% for items between $80 and $100. So worst case, the total with Paypal fees included is $88.88 plus shipping. The total will probably not rise to this level because of the series units, which I will use as a bargaining chip to bring the price down. And of course, if people show more interest this week, then the price will drop. Also, you can save the Paypal fees by paying with Paypal balance or a transfer from your bank account.

The current list:

Ladder (04A2R00)
bryman79 - 1
6H5C - 1
Praudio - 3
pkpickard - 1
rpafenberg - 2
LastStop - 1
Yoke - 2
ITZBITZ - 1
TOTAL - 12

Series (04A2A00)
Praudio - 3
BrianGT - 1
jhead - 1
TOTAL - 5

Regards,
Bryan
 
#135
Peter Daniel

Presently I get 2 passive volume : one with a Vishay resistor and
Noble as shunt ,and the other one with Elma ladder and all
old Holco resistors(both 20k) On my system and some friends one
the Holco/Elma is always better. Myself, I prefer Vishay (natural)
over Holco(a bit on the cold side) but the Noble do something wrong(seem to be distortion)
 
#136
I'm using old stock Noble mono pots (detented) and they seem to sound OK, a little bit on a bright side, but not to the extend when they become tiring. I once tried a Spectrol pot from older Mark Levinson preamp and it didn't sound right, seemed to be very dull sounding. Recently I ordered some Panasonic pots, and although very pricey and well spokens about, I was kinda disappointed with them. They sound a bit like AN tantalums: very nice midrange but lack of extention in highs. I got pretty good results with small Alps pots (black plastic/metal body) and they were very smooth and less bright than Nobles. BTW, Noble pots are used in BAT and Audio Note gear.

The attenuator I fancy now, is fixed series resistor combination (10K Vishay and 10K tantalum in parallel, for 5k total resistance) and 24 shunting, old style Holcos with Electroswitch switcher. It is pretty good sounding combination. I coudn't use neither Vishay or tantalum alone as none of them sounded right by itself (Vishay cold, but good highs, tantalum warm with good midrange, but lacking highs).

I'm thinking about ladder type attenuator, using exotic resistors and 4 deck Elma switch. But it will only be using 3 or 4 series resistors and they would be used in 3 or 4 sectors of switched series resistance value (let's say for 25k pot, they could be 1k, 5k 15k and 20k). This reduces the number of required resistors (from 24 to 4) so the saving is substantial. The only drwaback is that overall ressistance is not alway exactlys 25K but 25 +/-5k. To me it's not a big problem. The shunt resistors have to be also recalculated and different from the usual tables (presented by switching attenuators makers).
 
#140
The current list:

Ladder (04A2R00)
bryman79 - 1
6H5C - 1
Praudio - 3
pkpickard - 1
rpafenberg - 2
LastStop - 1
ITZBITZ - 1
Chosen1 - 1
Carrier Bag Man - 1
stadams - 1
TOTAL - 13

Series (04A2A00)
Praudio - 3
BrianGT - 1
jhead - 1
Yoke - 2
TOTAL - 7

Regards,
Bryan
 
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