Yeah, they were originally designed to be front and back horn loaded coupled to a matching impedance and anything less is, well, less.
GM
Having gone through a Lowther phase myself, I can tell you that the "speed" and "clarity" of the DX line in particular is nothing more than an exaggerated treble. You can see it on any FR plot of any Lowther driver. It is startling and ear grabbing for about a half an hour, then fatigue sets in. A half an hour later, the headache starts.
Once a Lowther is properly EQ'd, it will sound very nice. Worth the price? Maybe. If you do the EQ passively, it requires a wide, low Q notch filter to handle BCS and the bump in the low treble and another on for the huge Lowther upper treble. Much easier with DSP.
Bob
Once a Lowther is properly EQ'd, it will sound very nice. Worth the price? Maybe. If you do the EQ passively, it requires a wide, low Q notch filter to handle BCS and the bump in the low treble and another on for the huge Lowther upper treble. Much easier with DSP.
Bob
Hmmm... So it's a exaggeration in the treble religion that makes the ex3 sound clearer than any of the fostex I have listen to, including the fe108ez that I' listen now. So if I equalize the upper region on the 108 will it sound as clear as the ex3. In the midrange, is the midrange exaggerated too? Because it sounds clear as well and life like compare to other fostex I heard. Don't get wrong I like the 108 , I think it's nice sounding but when I compare it to the ex3, the 108 does not sound as clear and life like in the midrange. So if it is the exaggerated peak that give the ex3 it sound than I guess that is what I like. I guess that also will explain why I thought the dx45 sound coming out the front did no match the db's sound coming out the horn mouth until you really turn up the volume. I really like the 108, I just wish it sounded as clear as the ex3.
Depends to an extent what you mean by 'midrange', but see my previous post anyway. Short answer = 'yes' -most Lowthers have a rapidly rising response from, oh, call it 500Hz - 1KHz (this depends on model & specifics thereof) up to about 10KHz - 12KHz, whereupon the response either levels, or, more usually, falls away.
Ok, I just hooked up the 108/alerion BLH to my old outlaw receiver, it has a bass and treble control to play with. (Not exactly set magic sound) I put a few tunes that I know what it sound like with the ex3 and bumped the treble up and Bob is correct, it sounded clearer than before. Closer to what I was hearing with the ex3. No midrange magic but I think that because of the amp. So it is true I like the peaks the lowther has.
I don't mind a few peaks.
I hear midrange magic with my T-amp and Tube amp... not with my $250 Onkyo ss receiver.
I hear midrange magic with my T-amp and Tube amp... not with my $250 Onkyo ss receiver.
I was going to write a sarcastic response to tiverson, but behold: He is the very first person to realize and admit that "detail" as normally used on this forum and others is nothing more that a rising response. Oh the great feeling of vindication!!
I would like to note, however, that most people do not like a flat response. A dead flat FR sounds rather lifeless and uninvolving. The most popular is a 6-12dB smiley face EQ. I personally prefer a 6dB bass boost, a 3dB BBC dip and 6dB boost above 10kHz. To each his own.
Here's another Lowther FR plot. This one is from Martin King's web site.
Bob
I would like to note, however, that most people do not like a flat response. A dead flat FR sounds rather lifeless and uninvolving. The most popular is a 6-12dB smiley face EQ. I personally prefer a 6dB bass boost, a 3dB BBC dip and 6dB boost above 10kHz. To each his own.
Here's another Lowther FR plot. This one is from Martin King's web site.
Bob
Attachments
Not me. Detail is a subset of a system's DDR. It is in the depths, not on the surface as represented by the FR.
dave
Is there an explanation of downward dynamic range somewhere? Would that basically be a system where low bass notes are still low HD? Like -40 dB of THD at normal listening levels for 50 Hz and below?
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Measured distortion is pretty meaningless.
DDR (Downward Dynamic Range) is the ability to reproduce information way down (20-40 dB more) in the presence of the main signal.
Using the term in the most general of senses, good DDR requires low distortion. We haven't really figured out how to measure that yet.
dave
DDR (Downward Dynamic Range) is the ability to reproduce information way down (20-40 dB more) in the presence of the main signal.
Using the term in the most general of senses, good DDR requires low distortion. We haven't really figured out how to measure that yet.
dave
sorry Bob did not mean to be sarcastic. You are right. Word don't come out right when fingers type sometimes.
I am not sure why measured distortion when presented as 2nd, 3rd, 4th , 5th harmonic plus THD vs frequency is meaningless? It totally provides an instant indication of how clean the speaker will sound and provides clues as to where to use an RTA to see what is causing the HD whether it be cabinet or basket resonance vibrations, or driver distortion due to VC motor design. Dismissing it as worthless would mean that there are speakers that you think sound good but have poor HD plots? But in fact, as you indicate, you need clean HD in order to not bury the 20 to 40 dB of signal in the presence of the main sound. I am still unclear if this signal is in the bass, mid, or treble range? Downward seems to indicate it is bass, or downwards means that you have a SNR that is high so that detail at the -40 dB relative to the music can still be discerned?
The term dynamic range is perfectly understandable and well defined as ratio of largest signal over smallest resolvable signal. Cannot be better than SNR.
What is the equation for DDR? It sounds like it should have an equation because the term seems to indicate a quantifiable variable.
Hardly! Me and some others have been saying it when appropriate for as long as I've been on-line, though mostly calling it harmonic distortion.
GM
Hmm, well, there's 'detail', then there's 'inner detail', which is normally referring to a low noise floor and historically the way it's achieved is by having a lot of harmonic distortion via a rising response, then EQing it down, so that the dynamic range of it isn't lost.
GM
Consider that traditional rising on axis horns have some of the worst harmonic distortion, yet when properly implemented has no audible hint of it [i.e. 'clean'] and widest dynamic range.
From this we see that it's in the HF of the driver's/speaker's BW even if its usable BW is only in the bass, etc..
Anyway, that's my understanding of all this, but Dr. Geddes is probably the best person around here to explain it mathematically and otherwise, especially since he seems to be the most vocal about it.
GM
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