peranders said:
Hi Peranders,
Have you read posts 427, 431, & 432, by any chance?
I don't know what else can be done here to positively identify these bogus devices.
They are certainly properly-functioning dual NPN (well-matched pair) bi-polar (BJT, if you prefer) devices in an identical package to Toshiba's 2SC3381 (which is a rather unique package, anyway) with gains suggesting that they are also 'BL' HFE devices.
Regards,🙂
Just deal with it rationally and stop having a field day. It is a New Year after all many worse things could have befallen you. Deal with it according to your lights. And give the guy a chance to sort it. You could have bought elsewhere, but you took a cheap option.
Godwin point reached a few posts ago.
It's time to cool down and just wait for January 5th.
Happy New Year and Peace on Earth 😉
It's time to cool down and just wait for January 5th.
Happy New Year and Peace on Earth 😉
SY said:
What modesty... "Even you" are one of those whose customary title is a reflection of their special status here.
You do not have to agree that diyaudio and its management should acknowledge their share of responsibility for this mess. You do not have to agree that the concept of customary titles gives credibility to the donors (and others) as deserving diyaudio.com supporters. You do not even have to help the rest of us in sorting the mess out. But what really escapes logic is that you would want to pick a fight with the victims of the situation rather than the offender(s).
It is quite clear that this Group Buy (and the mess it has created) would not have been possible without just one of the following 3 factors: A'af, diyaudio.com site and its members. Group Buys are based on mutual trust and the reputation of the site that facilitates them. The members have been punished enough by not getting the goods they paid for.
Also, blaming the members for taking a cheap option is cheap. Group Buys are a cheap option per default. That is the very purpose of their existence.
Regards,
Milan
I've just received my package of 25 each of J and K devices and no suprise, mine too appear not to be new nor are they dual JFET devices. Dissapointing to be sure and doesn't help me to get started on my project. That said, I'm not about to start trying to shoot A'af as it is not clear that the fault is his and without people such as him, prepared to organise group buys, we would all be poorer in general (ignoring any loss of money for this particular purchase). I'm not hopefull of a good resolution here but I will sit tight and wait to see what news A'af brings us on or shortly after the 5th Jan. Good luck A'af!
Ian.
Ian.
Milan, you obviously want to complain about the moderation of this forum. Fair enough, but it is not relevant to this thread, so any further posts of this nature will be moved to the Moderation thread in Off Topic.
moamps said:
That's reverse logic to me 😕
Neither Diyaudio or Mods are responsible for the members actions. We are all guests here, and we have used this site to take advantage of a "good deal".
It so happens, that is was not as good a deal as we all hoped, but i still don't see how on earth the blame can suddenly lie with our host.
I, and only I am responsible for my own actions. When i get screwed, i don't blame my landlord, because i got screwed in his building.
Fake 2SK389 and 2SJ109
Hello
I would like to comment on base of the pictures shown of the devices in question.
As a professional SC-device package designer, I must tell you these devices are certainly fakes because the pins are not made from stamped leadframes as it is the common standard.
It looks to me that some garage-shop has handmade such devices with the intention to sell as original product.
Often plagiarized devices made by some unknown Asian- or South American manufacturer are based on original - but out of specification - means scrap product chips. Sometimes you can find such offers in the internet where whole wafers are offered. Very often such out of spec wafers are collected from employees from the companies scrap containers and offered to the black market. But such devices are based on the original device only the data are not within the specification.
But in your case, the main volume of the devices are dead, thus in this case the manufacturer have even not used out of spec wafers, instead he used some unknown sc-chips.
Without accusing anybody, the seller/distributor of such products is responsible of the products offered/sold and can be made liable.
I really fell pity for all of you. I hope you will find a way how to get the devices replaced by the distributor.
Regards
Gerd
Hello
I would like to comment on base of the pictures shown of the devices in question.
As a professional SC-device package designer, I must tell you these devices are certainly fakes because the pins are not made from stamped leadframes as it is the common standard.
It looks to me that some garage-shop has handmade such devices with the intention to sell as original product.
Often plagiarized devices made by some unknown Asian- or South American manufacturer are based on original - but out of specification - means scrap product chips. Sometimes you can find such offers in the internet where whole wafers are offered. Very often such out of spec wafers are collected from employees from the companies scrap containers and offered to the black market. But such devices are based on the original device only the data are not within the specification.
But in your case, the main volume of the devices are dead, thus in this case the manufacturer have even not used out of spec wafers, instead he used some unknown sc-chips.
Without accusing anybody, the seller/distributor of such products is responsible of the products offered/sold and can be made liable.
I really fell pity for all of you. I hope you will find a way how to get the devices replaced by the distributor.
Regards
Gerd
Hi Gerd,
Thanks for these comments which add to the picture here.
However, to make matters clear, when I saw the same pictures I initially thought the same as you, and I commented on this fact at that time, suggesting that the leads looked more like circular wires than being stamped out of flat metal stock which should have given them a square-section. However, as with the lettering font-style issue, this turns out to be something of a "red-herring" as when I subsequently received my batch of devices yesterday, I realised what gave rise to this misconception.
In fact these leads are all exactly like genuine Toshiba leads of the same package (or at least these leads were, at one time!) but they have since been solder-coated by someone, and this has given the more rounded appearance seen the pics. At the root of these leads (i.e where they enter the moulded plastic) the pins are quite 'square' in section, and have been originally made as usual by punching them out of metal stock.
Also, if my experience is typical (and another poster's, who has also tested these *appropriately*) these devices are fully-funtioning and very well-matched dual NPN bi-polars. As there has been no further comment (yet!) from the earlier posters who probably tested the devices as J-Fets and correctly deduced under those anticipated (but unfortunately incorrect) circumstances that "they didn't work", it is not necessarily a fact that the majority of devices are dead, as you believe.
I have inspected these with a low-powered microscope and all of the face-sizes, angles, moulding flashes etc. of the plastic encapsulation, are precisely the same as known good devices, as are the surface finishes of the plastic used. In my experience, fakers just don't go to this much trouble, but certainly this accuracy in replication would be beyond the usual skills of any "garage shop" in my view.
I still firmly believe that they are *most likely* to be re-marked Toshiba 2SC3381s, but although this might just help when discussing the problem with the supplier, it is entirely academic, otherwise. They are not what anyone wanted, nor paid for.
As you say, I agree that it is a matter for the seller/supplier and we should await the outcome of A-af's discussions in this respect.
Regards,
Thanks for these comments which add to the picture here.
However, to make matters clear, when I saw the same pictures I initially thought the same as you, and I commented on this fact at that time, suggesting that the leads looked more like circular wires than being stamped out of flat metal stock which should have given them a square-section. However, as with the lettering font-style issue, this turns out to be something of a "red-herring" as when I subsequently received my batch of devices yesterday, I realised what gave rise to this misconception.
In fact these leads are all exactly like genuine Toshiba leads of the same package (or at least these leads were, at one time!) but they have since been solder-coated by someone, and this has given the more rounded appearance seen the pics. At the root of these leads (i.e where they enter the moulded plastic) the pins are quite 'square' in section, and have been originally made as usual by punching them out of metal stock.
Also, if my experience is typical (and another poster's, who has also tested these *appropriately*) these devices are fully-funtioning and very well-matched dual NPN bi-polars. As there has been no further comment (yet!) from the earlier posters who probably tested the devices as J-Fets and correctly deduced under those anticipated (but unfortunately incorrect) circumstances that "they didn't work", it is not necessarily a fact that the majority of devices are dead, as you believe.
I have inspected these with a low-powered microscope and all of the face-sizes, angles, moulding flashes etc. of the plastic encapsulation, are precisely the same as known good devices, as are the surface finishes of the plastic used. In my experience, fakers just don't go to this much trouble, but certainly this accuracy in replication would be beyond the usual skills of any "garage shop" in my view.
I still firmly believe that they are *most likely* to be re-marked Toshiba 2SC3381s, but although this might just help when discussing the problem with the supplier, it is entirely academic, otherwise. They are not what anyone wanted, nor paid for.
As you say, I agree that it is a matter for the seller/supplier and we should await the outcome of A-af's discussions in this respect.
Regards,
I didn't get in on this GB, but looking at the bagged pics in post 262, the devices in the bags appear to look better in terms of the leads, etc. than the devices received and pictured in later portions of this thread. It might just be my eyes though. Not accusing anyone of anything, just an observation when I went back thru the thread.
Of course what they look like and what they perform like are two different things...
Of course what they look like and what they perform like are two different things...
Attachments
The devices in the pic are sure not the same as whar people have received, just look at the legs.
Magura 🙂
Magura 🙂
The legs on this one looks like the ones I got..
I mean the front legs are more forward than the original 2SK389 that I have.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I mean the front legs are more forward than the original 2SK389 that I have.
I did ask myself wether this bag of devices could be different from the parts that have been actually shipped out and of course I did look at the legs first but came to the conclusion that the picture is not detailed enough to judge this.
Idle speculation does not add to the situation. These are most probably real Toshiba devices that have been re-labeled. If not, so what?
I'll give A'af a chance and wait until after my return after Jan 8th. I hope that things would get moving by then. I got 10 each of these useless FET. We should give A'af a chance and hope for the best...
2sk389
Anybody experience with this shop? 2224 pc. on stock....
2SK389BL 2026 pcs.
http://www.bluestar-online.com/2SK389_p/2sk389.htm?gclid=CKrP6Yff15ACFQdFZwodfiSNOQ
Loek
Anybody experience with this shop? 2224 pc. on stock....
2SK389BL 2026 pcs.
http://www.bluestar-online.com/2SK389_p/2sk389.htm?gclid=CKrP6Yff15ACFQdFZwodfiSNOQ
Loek
Re: 2sk389
Hi,
No, I haven't had any dealings with these folk, but these are a helluva price, aren't they? Fortunately, I still have plenty of 'BL' IDSS devices, so I am only interested in 'V' types for my purposes.
However, I am surprised to see so many apparantly still available, but at that cost, maybe it is understandable.
That is a good picture on that site of just how the genuine leads should look, though.
Regards,
loek said:
Hi,
No, I haven't had any dealings with these folk, but these are a helluva price, aren't they? Fortunately, I still have plenty of 'BL' IDSS devices, so I am only interested in 'V' types for my purposes.
However, I am surprised to see so many apparantly still available, but at that cost, maybe it is understandable.
That is a good picture on that site of just how the genuine leads should look, though.
Regards,
surprised to see so many apparantly still available
That was also my idea, thinking of John Curls searching.....
They dont stock the 2SJ types however.
Loek
That was also my idea, thinking of John Curls searching.....
They dont stock the 2SJ types however.
Loek
Hi loek,
Yes, I also noticed no counterpart J109s, unfortunately, and I generally use as many of these as the K389s.
In view of my own experiences, and comments from others, I felt that $6 apiece from A'af was probably not unreasonable nowadays for the 'V' classification, but the cost of these is something else at over twice that price.
Regards,
Yes, I also noticed no counterpart J109s, unfortunately, and I generally use as many of these as the K389s.
In view of my own experiences, and comments from others, I felt that $6 apiece from A'af was probably not unreasonable nowadays for the 'V' classification, but the cost of these is something else at over twice that price.
Regards,
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