dont forget for $150 you can apply apodizing to any dac you ever own, with puremusic...
yeah I love those 'white papers'
yeah I love those 'white papers'
I note that the time axis in those graphs has no units.
The impulse response of a brick-wall filter basically shows you what happens when you remove all the higher frequencies from an infinitely sharp transition. Music does not contain such transitions - even if the instruments produced them the microphones and studio chain do not have infinite bandwidth. I suspect that a combination of a perfect brick-wall at, say 20kHz, and a first-order roll-off at, say 25kHz, would have a much smoother response - this corresponds more to reality.
Classic FUD - convince your customers they have a problem which you can solve for them.
The impulse response of a brick-wall filter basically shows you what happens when you remove all the higher frequencies from an infinitely sharp transition. Music does not contain such transitions - even if the instruments produced them the microphones and studio chain do not have infinite bandwidth. I suspect that a combination of a perfect brick-wall at, say 20kHz, and a first-order roll-off at, say 25kHz, would have a much smoother response - this corresponds more to reality.
Classic FUD - convince your customers they have a problem which you can solve for them.
even if it's there in the music AND you can hear it, it goes away as soon as it enters the ADC. and it should.
there's a presentation by Bruno Putzeys somewhere where he discusses this stuff in a very brief and easy to understand manner.
can anyone guess another side benefit you get by playing with super duper advanced custom filters?
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you get to brag about super duper dithering schemes too!
IMO, among all the 'smart' fixes for the 'broken' RedBook, the only one that makes some sense is that used by Pacific Microsonics (HDCD) in their ADCs/DACs: they used (or at least marketed their products as such) a selection of filters at the ADC side that are switched dynamically, based on the content of the signal and the filter type is encoded in the LSB (about 2% of the time) for later use at the DAC side.
but, on the other hand, they're out of business and we now have hi-res anyway.
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I agree with you, Pano, there are obviously individuals who never ever listen to music, wouldn't know it if the real thing ever hit them on the side of the head and knocked them 20ft sideways. All that matters is the pricetag, and the credentials of the individuals who are connected with it ...
If the "expert" knows that a new plane will fly, because that person just "knows" that it will, without being tested by others, I'm sure some people will meekly climb on board, fully assured ...
Better known as windowing that allows some aliasing in order to get waveforms that look "nicer" in terms of what folks think waveforms should look like (you know "nice", no ringy dingies or pre-cognition).
yep, those idealized waveforms and none of those horrible jaggies... its funny how people think the lines exist... I mentioned it only for another point of reference ie. certainly not exclusivity. I actually use PM, but mainly for the crossover and plugin hosting. oh and hires playback for when its needed, the volume control is pretty decent too.
They live right here on this forum, and reject listening as a valid means of evaluation.
Nope. See above. I do not use straw man arguments, I am not a radio talk show host. 🙂 Of course I did exaggerate a bit to make a point, but those people do exist. Perhaps not all are engineers, but many are. Some are in the audio business. I will not point them out nor quote them here, out of politeness, but they do exist. Search a little on the forum and you will find them.
nope, I dont know any of them either, although I can understand why you might want to believe that they exist. listening alone, nope, not valid or reliable, measurement alone, much better, but not complete either. neither can or should be ignored, but measurement alone is much more reliable as long as you have enough listening to relate what you see.
contrary to popular belief, I doubt there are many that believe that THD+N is all that useful by itself either, even though its the most often quoted thing that measurement fanciers apparently use as a judge of everything, maybe its because those same people often dont really know about other more dynamic measurement types, like multitone, IMD, frequency vs impedance, power vs impedance, SNR or THD vs load vs FS etc. powercube type stuff, where multiple measurements are graphed against another axis showing another factor, whatever you choose.
actually there is one that I used to argue with, but he doesnt post here much anymore, primarily used to post in the objective 2 headphone amp threads and these type, but havent seen him for a while.
contrary to popular belief, I doubt there are many that believe that THD+N is all that useful by itself either, even though its the most often quoted thing that measurement fanciers apparently use as a judge of everything, maybe its because those same people often dont really know about other more dynamic measurement types, like multitone, IMD, frequency vs impedance, power vs impedance, SNR or THD vs load vs FS etc. powercube type stuff, where multiple measurements are graphed against another axis showing another factor, whatever you choose.
actually there is one that I used to argue with, but he doesnt post here much anymore, primarily used to post in the objective 2 headphone amp threads and these type, but havent seen him for a while.
not really no, I wasnt labeling you with the second paragragh, but it is a popular belief that anyone that mentions too strenuously that evil measurements might provide more substantial proof than pure and fanciful anecdotes in the face of substantial evidence; must automatically be a cold-hearted soul that has deaf ears, no emotion and no possible clue what real music sounds like, due to all that endless listening to sinewaves. I guess it makes them feel better about having no leg to stand on or something, backslapping stuff.
funnily most, have absolutely no idea who they are talking to, or what their experience, or views are, people can be complex, I like it that way. Ironically those claiming to be with an open mind, are often those with the most rigid, black and white outlook
funnily most, have absolutely no idea who they are talking to, or what their experience, or views are, people can be complex, I like it that way. Ironically those claiming to be with an open mind, are often those with the most rigid, black and white outlook
Well yes, there is a lot of complaining about the "scope jockies" who just stare at waveforms and never listen to "real music." I don't think the complainers have ever actually met anyone like that, but a lot of guys on the audio forums do come across that way.
Like any other human behavior, there is a continuum from one extreme to the other.
Like any other human behavior, there is a continuum from one extreme to the other.
in short:
listening is a valid and essential method for good design/realization of audio equipment
thorough and varied measurement is a valid and essential method for design/realization of audio equipment.
just listening is not really a valid/reliable measurement
listening is a valid and essential method for good design/realization of audio equipment
thorough and varied measurement is a valid and essential method for design/realization of audio equipment.
just listening is not really a valid/reliable measurement
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Frank,
again lots of assumptions, and not a shred of evidence.
But you're likely right, some may even attend music venues, merely to gloat fat bottoms.
Attachments
Not the point. Listening is THE most important thing. Because that's what it's all about in audio.
Nothing wrong measurements, I love 'em and use them all the time. But toward a goal.
I agree completely, but only on a personal level, since thats the only place that listening has any impact and OMG what an impact! otherwise why would I be here!? on that level i'm happy for anyone getting joy out of their hobby.
When that personal experience is masqueraded publicly as proof, or 'measurement' of the existence of some unproven phenomena that is fantastic and contrary to repeatable/demonstrable research/knowledge, my eyes glaze over, its simply not good enough. It may be good enough grounds for inquiry to a point, depending on the nature of the claim. it annoys me especially if that claim involves recommendations for people to spend their money.
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