although this belongs in the "sound quality vs measurements" thread... and although it's playing the devil's advocate again...
I remember when the company I was working for hired someone to give a presentation on nutrition. a colleague returns after it ended and starts to preach the BMI (Body Mass Index) gospel. it was the first time he (and I) heard about it. and I told him "well, does it account for different bone, fat and muscle distribution?"
the guys gets aggressive and switches to "repeat-a-slogan-I-happen-to-like" mode. starts repeating "BMI tells you if you're healthy, damn it!".
well, turns out that it's more complicated than that and medicine started realizing it.
and it's also a case of statistics used the wrong way, IMO.
measurements.
I remember when the company I was working for hired someone to give a presentation on nutrition. a colleague returns after it ended and starts to preach the BMI (Body Mass Index) gospel. it was the first time he (and I) heard about it. and I told him "well, does it account for different bone, fat and muscle distribution?"
the guys gets aggressive and switches to "repeat-a-slogan-I-happen-to-like" mode. starts repeating "BMI tells you if you're healthy, damn it!".
well, turns out that it's more complicated than that and medicine started realizing it.
and it's also a case of statistics used the wrong way, IMO.
measurements.
Security hex are neutral the pin in the center off sets the points as it does in the torx ones. Still stainless or non ferrous ?
According to BMI, famously, the great wide receiver Jerry Rice, who was as perfect a physical specimen as walks this earth, was obese.
BMI should be treated like THD: a very rough measure which contains some truth but not the whole truth. Unfortunately, health statisticians (and politicians) love numbers so BMI is used in ways it was never intended for.
The song remains the same.
Then when you point out that from historical experience that the result will fall in this given range not the one projected and it does so they still refuse to accept your correct data over the all mighty projection .
I to see this at work when people adhere to a projection based on information that includes about 4 extra parameters and leaving out 3 critical one thus resulting a bit of data that is of total no use to us.
Then when you point out that from historical experience that the result will fall in this given range not the one projected and it does so they still refuse to accept your correct data over the all mighty projection .
When last here I noted the topic of screwing was in order. How have we ended up back at wine tasting? Oh that's right, corks are being eliminated. I knew there was an underlying motive. You guys are smooth.
Almost all fit athletes are obese according to BMI.
I suggest removing the "vs." to be replaced with "and".
This is about the usefulness of approaches. The Scientific Method is useful to a point but it lacks a great deal and those wedded to it, Engineers and Objectivists, need to realise its profound limitations.
I want an Engineer to be able to say "I don't know, let's try this and see what happens". The current DSD developments when in 1979 measurements 'proved' that humans did not need more than 16bits at 44k sampling to be able to exceed human hearing sensitivity. Yeah, that worked out well.
The measurement/Engineering group believe (and it is a belief) that what we can now measure describes what we can hear and that is not only unproven, it's hubris.
To think that we now know 95% of what there is to learn about sound reproduction is folly. It's also a logical fallacy as to know how far we have come one would need to be cognizant of the complete absolute field of knowledge from an omniscient point of view and no one has that perspective.
It is possible that what we know about sound reproduction is less than 1% of the total knowledge available to us in this field.
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And almost anybody over 6 feet tall. There is a revision to the BMI calculation with a modified power law ( ht*2.4 ISTR) to deal with very short or tall people better.
This is the most painful part ... testing and correlating the benefits of all the reasonable tweaks is a mind numbing exercise, a fast way to total burnout.
So, the real path is to establish which tuning methods have 'something' in them which actually improves the quality, rather than merely altering the tonality in some way - and then turn them into an engineering guideline, with, very hopefully, decent understanding of the physical mechanism underlying the effect and benefit ...
Obviously a lot of interesting analogies between audio and winemaking -- my analogy is that 25 years ago in a restaurant in an Oz winemaking area I by chance ordered a local red, which to this day is the best experience I've had of a full bodied wine of this colour. It instantly turned my wife who had been indifferent to red wine into a total believer. So, I now knew how good a red wine could get, so from then on every red I tasted was measured by that remembered reference. No matter that how crappy, or unbalanced, or weak, every red was after that, for years on end, no-one is going to be able to come to me and say, "You're up yourself, thinking that you tasted a really good wine on some occasion!"
And that's how it is ...
And that's how it is ...
An update from the chap with the Shunyata setup - still happy, and a key indicator:
Sorry, more MHW ... 😀
The point being that one doesn't have to go into a deeply analytical mode to know if a system is working right, doesn't need to be exposed to a full frontal assault of the sound - the ear/brain "knows" the signature of realistic sound even from a distance, behind closed doors, it's got the processing power and memory pegs to get an assessment right even with very "poor" clues ...
Sorry, more MHW ... 😀
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't ...
Fascinating, zero feedback on trying a UULE, http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/lounge/234031-tweaking-imperative-13.html#post3469721 and following posts, so far. Anyway, I'm gonna make this really, really, really easy, this time: my wife was watching a classical piano playing competition on TV, sound was typically dead, so I thought - let's try the simplest tweak, just hit the freeze button on the remote. Yep, the SQ went up dramatically once the video circuits went into pause mode - my wife had no trouble picking up the obvious difference, and she instinctively went into a freeze/unfreeze cycle as the show continued, so she could watch the speaking bits, etc. In spite of the signal being MPEG, etc, the gains were still obviously there ...
I'll call this the USUUULE, for the Ultra Simple, Ultra UULE, 😀
Fascinating, zero feedback on trying a UULE, http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/lounge/234031-tweaking-imperative-13.html#post3469721 and following posts, so far. Anyway, I'm gonna make this really, really, really easy, this time: my wife was watching a classical piano playing competition on TV, sound was typically dead, so I thought - let's try the simplest tweak, just hit the freeze button on the remote. Yep, the SQ went up dramatically once the video circuits went into pause mode - my wife had no trouble picking up the obvious difference, and she instinctively went into a freeze/unfreeze cycle as the show continued, so she could watch the speaking bits, etc. In spite of the signal being MPEG, etc, the gains were still obviously there ...
I'll call this the USUUULE, for the Ultra Simple, Ultra UULE, 😀
That's a bit harsh, maybe his TV really is knackered.
Or did you mean he should see a repairman about getting the telly fixed?
Or did you mean he should see a repairman about getting the telly fixed?
In what sense? ... that it would be impossible for the SQ to alter depending on what level of functionality it was operating under; or that it would have to be so subtle that it would be impossible to hear it; or that the normal quality is so bad that all that would be heard are variations of badness ... hmmm?
To make it clearer, at least one of the benefits was that the right hand of the piano, the treble content, gained life, sparkle, the signature qualities that real pianos possess -- and that which many ambitious hifi systems often get horribly wrong ...
To make it clearer, at least one of the benefits was that the right hand of the piano, the treble content, gained life, sparkle, the signature qualities that real pianos possess -- and that which many ambitious hifi systems often get horribly wrong ...
I meant that if the sound only works properly when the picture's frozen, and even then you have to switch the whole thing off every few minutes to give it a rest, then maybe it's time to call a repairman.
I'm with Frank on this one. I've had a similar experience with cheap dvd players. A really write pause and play seems to improve the sound.
Cheers,
Alex
Cheers,
Alex
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