It's been well over two decades since the first real DSP, and the patent has long expired. Amusing, no ?
(Eek, even with the revised BMI calculator, I'm still obese at 6'2''. That other monster had the nerve to call me severely obese, appalling lack of manners)
Yes, like assumptions that people can't assess the capabilities of expensive audio equipment in a particular instance. I am very much aware all equipment, especially those with better quality parts, can be made to perform to a very high, satisfying level, but that doesn't account for the complications of a particular circumstance or environment, in every sense. I am as much disturbed as anyone would by hearing equipment that by all accounts should perform well, impress on initial exposure - hence my comments on the matter ...
Another example of what happens was listening to a reference level, literally, vinyl setup in the home of the proud owner. For the first hour the sound was excrutiating, I was tempted to stick my fingers in my ears but felt that wouldn't be seen as good form, 😀 ...
However, then the sound steadily improved, and finally gave an excellent account of an old recording. Casually mentioning the changes in SQ in a low key way to the host later, he nodded, and said the Benz cartridge needed at least an hour to come on song ... 🙄
Another example of what happens was listening to a reference level, literally, vinyl setup in the home of the proud owner. For the first hour the sound was excrutiating, I was tempted to stick my fingers in my ears but felt that wouldn't be seen as good form, 😀 ...
However, then the sound steadily improved, and finally gave an excellent account of an old recording. Casually mentioning the changes in SQ in a low key way to the host later, he nodded, and said the Benz cartridge needed at least an hour to come on song ... 🙄
Parking lot of the world trade center, folks went wild when Maná came on stage (couple of songs together with names as Carlos Santana, Ruben Blades)
The stage right at the beach is fantastic, in particular at night, with search lights of boats over the water at a few hundred feet distance (to prevent folks from swimming to a freebee)
But it doesn't even occur to you that maybe it's you becoming acclimatised to the system's 'idiosyncratic' sound? We do it all the time with all our senses. Like a bad smell goes away after a while, and we only realise it's still there if we leave the room for a while and come back in again, or our eyes adapting to coloured light so after a while we don't notice it. Really, an awful lot of the anecdotes about burning in and warming up are explained away by this simple, obvious phenomenon. It's not even worth raising an eyebrow at.
Well, I did say 'cheap' dvd so it's possible that it may have been malfunctioning. Equally possible that the design might be flawed somehow. Who knows. The change I heard was surprising, repeatable, and consistent with Frank's experience.
'The Fonz' uses percussive maintenance; and it only works for analog sources. 😀
I would not call pressing 'pause' on the remote a 'tweak' either. It's an observation. The tweak would be the change you make once you find out why it happens in the first place.
Cheers,
Alex
in the context of DACs apodizing refers to a different type of reconstruction filter. it's the latest fad, everyone must have it, else you're out of business soon.
I only recently found that it's also an alternative name for windowing, never seen it called that in the DSP terminology before.
exactly.
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speaking of which.
I remember a discussion with an 'empiricist'. he tells me: had it been for the engineering theories, I wouldn't have the great system I have now.
really? so, enginner came to you and said "look at this THD plot! look at it, damn it!, this is all you need for good sound!" did it really happen like that? wow.
OTOH, hmm. you do have a SS amp and a CD player? had it not been for the stubborn, boring EE types at TI, your CD player and amp wouldn't even exist.
what I noticed is that these types often use what I think is a variation of the "false compromise" fallacy. if you make the mistake of going into an argument, it will likely end in "let's just agree to disagree etc". it wouldn't be a problem in itself but nowadays you can't find one audio forum free of aggressive subjectivists. maybe you'll tell me that I'm the one building straw men this time but I have the very clear impression that deep inside some of them are actually convinced EEs should be publicly executed.
while I think that the problem with some EE types lies simply in the lack of exposure to good Hi-Fi. I really can't believe that EEs can be stubborn enough to hold on to false beliefs when there's a cognitive dissonance.
I remember a discussion with an 'empiricist'. he tells me: had it been for the engineering theories, I wouldn't have the great system I have now.
really? so, enginner came to you and said "look at this THD plot! look at it, damn it!, this is all you need for good sound!" did it really happen like that? wow.
OTOH, hmm. you do have a SS amp and a CD player? had it not been for the stubborn, boring EE types at TI, your CD player and amp wouldn't even exist.
what I noticed is that these types often use what I think is a variation of the "false compromise" fallacy. if you make the mistake of going into an argument, it will likely end in "let's just agree to disagree etc". it wouldn't be a problem in itself but nowadays you can't find one audio forum free of aggressive subjectivists. maybe you'll tell me that I'm the one building straw men this time but I have the very clear impression that deep inside some of them are actually convinced EEs should be publicly executed.
while I think that the problem with some EE types lies simply in the lack of exposure to good Hi-Fi. I really can't believe that EEs can be stubborn enough to hold on to false beliefs when there's a cognitive dissonance.
Well, if we can become acclimatised to a sound why not just buy that $200 mid-fi, and be done with it, 😉. At some point a little rationality has to come into the equation, if an audio system sounds like crap, well, maybe, it is distorting like crap. Luckily, on that occasion we had access to significant quantities of red, which I must admit did help to some degree.
Anyway, I've gone through the experience too many times, of hearing a system improve, and then degrade, and improve, and each time find a clear causal link. That satisfies me - and if all else fails I just find some real music making somewhere, a busker on the street perhaps, which reassures me that I can pick good sound from not good sound ... 🙂
Which probably goes for a lot of audio people -- I am amazed at times, seeing people deeply immersed in what I would consider quite mediocre sound, nothing at all like the real thing.
Personally, I find the "good stuff" can rocket dramatically into the OMG zone, be a quite overwhelming experience - once experienced, never forgotten ...
I first realized that this phenomenon existed in kids my age, when I was under 10, over two decades ago. It took on a bit of a different form, but some kids were driven solely and blindly by numbers, whether it was about mopeds, RC-cars, varying types of stereo equipment, etc. I was one of them, naturally, but hopefully growing slowly out of this.
Remember PMPO watts? 😀
Probably most everyone knows someone from their past that acted like an expert on one technical subject or another (or several), but calling them on their bluff feels like too much of a kick in the danglers that most people in the know just politely hum and grin their way out of the situation, letting the "expert" keep on living in their fantasy.
Is it more cruel to let the fantasy continue or to crush it once and for all?
-Sale
Wasn't it you who recommended listening to audio via an Aldi TV set?
But anyway are you saying that this "reference standard" system you were listening to was "distorting like crap" for an hour but after a while became reference standard because the cartridge warmed up? You could actually do some pioneering work here and make before-and-after measurements that prove the anecodotes about warm up to be possibly correct.
Except I'll bet you a large sum of money that you find there's no measurable difference before and after, and it will just have to be put down to hugely audible differences that are beyond measurement...
You don't see the reason, the connection? It has to do with the direction of the DVD/CD spin. Your trick works only in the southern hemisphere, of course!
The point there is that the simplicity of the setup allows key elements of high quality sound to come through, if sufficient care is taken in how you go about it. Which means, that almost all electronics has sufficient intrinsic 'quality' to allow for good listening - but this is normally ruined by all sorts of silly shortcuts taken, and dumb add-ons, by the manufacturer - and that's why the normal $200 unit sounds as terrible as it often does.
You mean I would the first person to try and measure before and after warm up?? Man, them audiophiles are bundles of resourcefulness!!
This occurred well in the past, and the chances of being allowed to play around with it, even then, would have been less than zero, 🙂. Further, I suspect you're right, that it would have been very difficult to nail with conventional measuring, being a cartridge and all. Which, is not to say that the behaviour wasn't there, merely that creating the right test signal is a major part of the battle ...
it's possible that you are right.
in the real life I've never seen EEs turn audiophiles because of lack of the right circumstances. but I like to think that they wouldn't hold on to wrong beliefs if they are exposed to the right system.
A test record with tones and pink noise tracks would have done very nicely to show any change in frequency balance, tracking or distortion
I hope that cartridge was not cutting gouges in the LP during the warm up period!
Hydrogen audio is extreme anti-subjectivist. If you cannot measure or demonstrate with ABX tests, you are banned
There's a simple test that doesn't even require measurements:
Record a track when the cartridge is cold, then record the same track after an hour or two of playing, when the cartridge is warmed up. Compare the recordings later to see if they sound different. If yes, then the warm-up did make a difference to the sound quality. If no, then it was just your ears/brain adjusting.
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