That's a particularly poorly chosen example. There were a number of serious development efforts ongoing at that time, many partial successes, and there were a lot of data.
See, for examples, Early flying machines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Science" isn't an institution, it's a process:
Wild claims and no evidence? Justifiably ignored, pending data to back up claims.
Wild claims with evidence contradicting? Bullhockey and crankery, ignored thoroughly, laughed at if it's particularly nutty in a new and novel way.
Wild claims with supporting evidence? Interesting.
SY's Fifth Law: When a breakthrough is made in our understanding of the basics of how the universe functions, it will not come from someone peddling hifi gadgets.
oh, the ignorance!
read and weep: Breakthrough Approach to Audio Measurement | Stereophile.com
it is a breakthrough! the title says so!
just the tools of the trade.
another one (which I mentioned somewhere in this thread) I've seen used a few times is the luxury watch. the worst high-end audio parallel one can come up with, the luxury watch is something that gives pleasure by the simple act of possession, not by the way it functions.
but... if it works with the audience, why not? 🙂
SY, I don't understand why you bothered. the guy didn't even get (or pretended he didn't) understand what my original post was about. but responded with the most cliched argument. Pavlovian behavior at its best.
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The fellow who wrote that piece is probably the single least technically competent person on their staff. Demian did a fine job of disassembling the puff in one paragraph.
Actually, I think the watch analogy is a good one- a Timex keeps time just as well as a Rolex, maybe better, but the Rolex allows the wearer to feel better about himself, more luxuriant. Likewise, a $30,000 rhodium wired linestage won't perform its basic function any better than a $100 IC opamp stage, but it's a luxury item and may allow the user to enjoy their music more just from the knowledge that they have paid a fortune for The Very Best.
I just ran a quick Google with "Nordost breakthrough" and hit "I'm feeling lucku". and, as a matter of fact, first thing I did was look who the author is, I never bothered to do so. and I did it this time just because I couldn't imagine most of the Stereophile staff coming up with such a title.
I actually know a guy who happens to posses a "high-end" system, who also collects watches. just a coincidence, I'm sure.
another coincidence is that he repeatedly uses the luxury watch analogy to justify high end audio pricing 🙂
I knew Enid Lumley well. She, in my opinion, was brilliant, and she had a 'golden ear'.
Unfortunately, she had other problems that put her on a pension from the State of California, never to work a regular job again.
Enid was not ignorant. I know that she went at least as far as a masters in psychology, toward a PhD, when she had her first 'breakdown' and suddenly left the university.
Enid worked with me 'for free' to build a preamp prototype that proceeded the JC-80, back in 1980, when I was between assignments and wanted to 'improve' on the JC-2.
Her work was excellent.
Each time she came to the apartment on a visit from LA, she would 'adjust' my hi fi system, while I usually played computer games.
Even though I was in the far back of the living room (the dining room actually) there were moments when I would hear a single human singing voice get brighter, dimmer, and then 'just right'. Personally, it was amazing, but it always happened.
Sort of like, in the old days, giving your car to a really good mechanic and finding that it ran better afterward.
I NEVER won an argument with Enid Lumley. She was that intelligent.
BUT she was fragile, which made her unemployable.
One of my colleagues, Art Ferris, of Audible Illusions, tried to hire her, but he didn't make her an offer that was worth it to her, so she declined.
Enid stayed in a 'static' situation for many years, but in the end, she 'cracked' once again, and decided to sell her hi fi, records, everything, and buy a used pick-up truck with a camper and move to Oregon.
There were good reasons why she 'cracked', I might go into these, later, as some of you might find them interesting, and all that I can say, is that she was too 'sensitive' to the ways of others, and she could not control her situation.
Unfortunately, she had other problems that put her on a pension from the State of California, never to work a regular job again.
Enid was not ignorant. I know that she went at least as far as a masters in psychology, toward a PhD, when she had her first 'breakdown' and suddenly left the university.
Enid worked with me 'for free' to build a preamp prototype that proceeded the JC-80, back in 1980, when I was between assignments and wanted to 'improve' on the JC-2.
Her work was excellent.
Each time she came to the apartment on a visit from LA, she would 'adjust' my hi fi system, while I usually played computer games.
Even though I was in the far back of the living room (the dining room actually) there were moments when I would hear a single human singing voice get brighter, dimmer, and then 'just right'. Personally, it was amazing, but it always happened.
Sort of like, in the old days, giving your car to a really good mechanic and finding that it ran better afterward.
I NEVER won an argument with Enid Lumley. She was that intelligent.
BUT she was fragile, which made her unemployable.
One of my colleagues, Art Ferris, of Audible Illusions, tried to hire her, but he didn't make her an offer that was worth it to her, so she declined.
Enid stayed in a 'static' situation for many years, but in the end, she 'cracked' once again, and decided to sell her hi fi, records, everything, and buy a used pick-up truck with a camper and move to Oregon.
There were good reasons why she 'cracked', I might go into these, later, as some of you might find them interesting, and all that I can say, is that she was too 'sensitive' to the ways of others, and she could not control her situation.
Enid gave up audio when she was torn in two by two editors. Peter Moncrief would PAY her for her research, but he would NOT publish her actual words, very often.
Harry Pearson, would PUBLISH her, but he would not pay her. She felt she was being taken advantage of by both editors, yet she could not 'bend' to the situation, like threatening Harry, if he didn't pay that she would not contribute. And instead of doing a complete article for Peter, she could have given him research notes, but she was just to 'rigid' so she couldn't do it.
Enid did not make much from her contributions financially, but she had a need to experiment and to 'publish' her experiences with audio. She was the best 'set-up' person I ever met. In fact, I wanted her to help others at CES, etc to get the best sound from their respective systems, but she was too far gone to do that, in the end.
Harry Pearson, would PUBLISH her, but he would not pay her. She felt she was being taken advantage of by both editors, yet she could not 'bend' to the situation, like threatening Harry, if he didn't pay that she would not contribute. And instead of doing a complete article for Peter, she could have given him research notes, but she was just to 'rigid' so she couldn't do it.
Enid did not make much from her contributions financially, but she had a need to experiment and to 'publish' her experiences with audio. She was the best 'set-up' person I ever met. In fact, I wanted her to help others at CES, etc to get the best sound from their respective systems, but she was too far gone to do that, in the end.
Why not? They can't complain.
I have to admit, I first thought it was parody. When it became known to me that it wasn't, I went into eye-rolling mode. Then I came around to pity for her, someone with clear issues who was being cynically exploited for entertainment purposes. A very, very sad thing, and it clarified for me what the morals of the audio press really were.
I have to admit, I first thought it was parody. When it became known to me that it wasn't, I went into eye-rolling mode. Then I came around to pity for her, someone with clear issues who was being cynically exploited for entertainment purposes. A very, very sad thing, and it clarified for me what the morals of the audio press really were.
Actually everything that Enid taught to me is still appreciated. She WAS extreme, but she could have debated SY easily, and won.
If one can't speak critically of someone because they're dead, then their names shouldn't be brought into a discussion in the first place.
se
LOL. I didn't attend the presentation, but I do remember the power outage. I had finally gotten out onto the show floor to listen to some stuff and was in the Green Mountain Audio room when the power went out. Bummer. 🙁
Went back to our room and fired up the system on batteries. At least we had music to listen to.
I heard it was an unlucky squirrel that got fried in the transformer. Now I doubt that story. Certainly the objectivist audio unbelievers sent a suicide squirrel to shut down the Nordost talk!
Rolex are not about time but the journey.
increased in value strangely enough that it worth more used then I have in it but it is not cheap or as good a time piece as the timex . It more the journey then the time you get there. Having said this I do agree that most of what is being sold in the wire venue is the sizzzial not the steak. There is no good justification for the cost of a large portion of the wire prices based on material ,R&D or performance. Yet for some that are willing to pay the freight they see value.
Interesting choose of analogies . The wire thing is so far gone that the watch analogy does not do it justice in that emperor's new clothes realm . Having worn a rolex sub for the last 24 years it is a pain in the check book it need tuning to keep proper time the timex or any cheap digital my wife likes keep better time from a cheap battery . However it feels good on the wrist and is very well balance for a heavy watch . It also stronger and more durable than any airplane I have touched on a daily basis for the last 19 years. It also has
increased in value strangely enough that it worth more used then I have in it but it is not cheap or as good a time piece as the timex . It more the journey then the time you get there. Having said this I do agree that most of what is being sold in the wire venue is the sizzzial not the steak. There is no good justification for the cost of a large portion of the wire prices based on material ,R&D or performance. Yet for some that are willing to pay the freight they see value.
ALLAHU AKBARRRRRRRR!!!!!!!
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
se
Thanks for those insights, John. A true pioneer, and a great shame she went into a darker place as she did - I think I would have enjoyed some deeply satisfying conversations with her ...
The pity is that more technically inclined people at the time didn't appreciate what she was achieving, and attempt to understand what was going on. I could throw in a little thought from Daniel J. Boorstin - "The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance -- it is the illusion of knowledge." but amongst this august collection of personages, I won't, 🙂.
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