It happens. For example, the percussive "pop" when someone pulls arbitrary numbers out of their hindquarters. The transients from the beginning of a hand-wave, as well.
Hmmm ... I think it's time to see that movie - what's it called ...? - ah, yes, ... Being John Malkovich.
Might be the only way to understand some things ...
Might be the only way to understand some things ...
Oh no, he has a rather nice stash of relents. He just doesn't like showing them off is all.
se
Yes, I understand what you meant, I just disagree that all open baffle speakers are like that. While what you propose might seem very logical on the surface, I don't think it reflects the real world of good design. Small box speakers can couple with the room as much or perhaps more than open baffle designs. Open baffle speakers usually have nulls at the sides that don't excite the room ambiance at all. Box speakers become omni-directional in the bass - related to the baffle/box size.
I've also heard OBs outside and in a room with only 3 walls. They seem to retain the sense of openness that so many box speakers lack. Now, I can certainly understand that you might not like that sort of sound, but most people I've met do enjoy it. OBs are not without their own problems, but I don't think that they are inherently worse than conventional designs, except perhaps for size.
I'm aware of the dipole thing and the null at the sides and above (was the notion of the "dipole speaker" invented before or after the current open baffle revival?) but as far as I'm aware, the ostensible reason for the existence of the open baffle speaker is not to cut down on room ambience. Rather, most people seem to suggest it's to do with reducing resonances and perceived "boxiness". I'm just suggesting that it may also be a backdoor 'surround sound' system that purports to be purist's two channel stereo, but really is a bit like Dolby Pro Logic which, even with non-Dolby-encoded material, sprays a bit of 'ambience' around the room that may sound good on some recordings but not others. It's not a question of whether I like the sound, but whether I like it on all recordings and, from my very limited understanding, I think conventional box speakers are more likely to give a predictable response that's nearer to the original recording - dull though that may be.
I'm baffled (ha ha) with audiophiles' obsession with bass. I don't get overly excited about it. My woofers are 12" in 90l sealed boxes, so I'm not making excuses for my own inadequacies... Yes, the bass from a conventional box spreads around the sides and behind, but it's just not very directional is it? I'm far more interested in what's happening higher up.
I'm baffled (ha ha) with audiophiles' obsession with bass. I don't get overly excited about it. My woofers are 12" in 90l sealed boxes, so I'm not making excuses for my own inadequacies... Yes, the bass from a conventional box spreads around the sides and behind, but it's just not very directional is it? I'm far more interested in what's happening higher up.
Last edited:
Nothing like getting something back that was lent to a hack. Usually it can't be relent.
Hear, hear ... perhaps it's to make up for inadequacies higher up, 'cause that's what I hear a lot of the time. The worst offender I heard recently was the Lyngdorf Model D - rolling waves of pummeling bass (yes, an OB!!), and mainly dead as a doornail everywhere else ...
If one perceives a hacker as someone in the vein of this description, Hacker (hobbyist) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, then I would be pleased to be considered to be part of that set. That's the sphere where interesting new thinking comes through, that advances the art in significant areas ...
Sure, but you keep supposing and guessing and thinking, but do you really know? Have you any real experience with good Open Baffle speakers? That's what I can't figure out. Conjuncture is one thing, experience is another.
Certainly the way that OB speakers react with the room is part of what people like about them, but when done properly I don't think the react in any bad way with the room. Have you heard any Quad electrostatic speakers? The bigger Magnapans? Martin Logan? A large OB with 15" or 18" dynamic drivers?
If so, did these strike you as giving a false sense of ambiance?
I was thinking the other day about the story of Enid Lumley, who after a long journey seeking the perfect reproduction system just sold it all and gave up.
I wonder if a perfect (in the sense of good enough) system exists and I don't think it's possible. music is recorded in studios and the signal is affected in all the possible ways, beggining with mic choice and placement. and then it is mixed and mastered using specific choices of D/A converters, amps, speakers. all influenced by room acoustics and finally by the sound engineer's tastes, preferences, biases etc.
summing up, a ton of variable factors.
so I speculate that as long as music is produced in different studios by different people, the same band playing the same song the same way will sound different, depending on the studios recording them.
and which of those versions is the "perfect" one? none.
sure, you can tune a specific system to sound good to your ears with certain music. but can it sound good to you with any music? I can't see how it's possible.
I wonder if a perfect (in the sense of good enough) system exists and I don't think it's possible. music is recorded in studios and the signal is affected in all the possible ways, beggining with mic choice and placement. and then it is mixed and mastered using specific choices of D/A converters, amps, speakers. all influenced by room acoustics and finally by the sound engineer's tastes, preferences, biases etc.
summing up, a ton of variable factors.
so I speculate that as long as music is produced in different studios by different people, the same band playing the same song the same way will sound different, depending on the studios recording them.
and which of those versions is the "perfect" one? none.
sure, you can tune a specific system to sound good to your ears with certain music. but can it sound good to you with any music? I can't see how it's possible.
Yes, sounds like a very interesting person to have exchanged ideas with; 'tis a shame she apparently abandoned her quest - though the frustation at times, trying to work out how the factors interrelate can wear one out ...
There is no such thing a "perfect" version of a recording - the best you can hope for is a system that gets completely out of the way during playback, you're not aware of any significant inadequacies in your equipment. Personally, I then find I can appreciate the texture of the sound and the skill of the music making, in a very satisfying way -- in the same way I might enjoy the efforts of an uncomplicated street busker that I happen to chance upon.
Again, for me, the key is eliminating pernicious low level distortion during the replay. So many systems have this to some degree that a lot of people would just assume that it's part and parcel of audiophile sound - however, I and some others have found that with concerted effort that it can be reduced to levels so that subjectively it no longer matters, and then all recordings sound good ... at least, for me ...
There is no such thing a "perfect" version of a recording - the best you can hope for is a system that gets completely out of the way during playback, you're not aware of any significant inadequacies in your equipment. Personally, I then find I can appreciate the texture of the sound and the skill of the music making, in a very satisfying way -- in the same way I might enjoy the efforts of an uncomplicated street busker that I happen to chance upon.
Again, for me, the key is eliminating pernicious low level distortion during the replay. So many systems have this to some degree that a lot of people would just assume that it's part and parcel of audiophile sound - however, I and some others have found that with concerted effort that it can be reduced to levels so that subjectively it no longer matters, and then all recordings sound good ... at least, for me ...
Depends how much I'm allowed to fiddle with it, and how much patience I have, 😉
I've spent a far number of years fooling around doing this sort of thing, so I guess I've picked up a few clues on the way. These days it just bugs me when I hear a system not working properly, so if I can't sort it out I would prefer not to listen at all, or just use the equivalent of a kitchen radio to do the job, so there are no expectations ... 🙂
I've spent a far number of years fooling around doing this sort of thing, so I guess I've picked up a few clues on the way. These days it just bugs me when I hear a system not working properly, so if I can't sort it out I would prefer not to listen at all, or just use the equivalent of a kitchen radio to do the job, so there are no expectations ... 🙂
I have noticed that I can't remember any shortcomings in the reproduced sounds of music that really 'lifts my soul' . It makes me really feel good and life generally appears much better. I wouldn't remember anything about the 'quality' of the sound as long as it wasn't distorting and sounds balanced. I wouldn't notice the 'finer ' details !
But when I'm building and testing things it is completely different. I notice small changes but probably while listening to good music I really wouldn't notice those small differences between equipment.
However DIY audio keeps me busy with interesting things to do. Add cooking and brewing to that and one can get VERY busy !😉
Will I finally make or have the ultimate system ? I don't really care . I just want it to sound as good as I like it. I'm already there though I keep rummaging about. I still go out to listen to multi thousand dollar systems and see what they sound like. Some sound good but many don't ( to my ears). However it helps to circulate around and meet new people !🙂
It's great meeting new people who walk the same Earth !😀
But when I'm building and testing things it is completely different. I notice small changes but probably while listening to good music I really wouldn't notice those small differences between equipment.
However DIY audio keeps me busy with interesting things to do. Add cooking and brewing to that and one can get VERY busy !😉
Will I finally make or have the ultimate system ? I don't really care . I just want it to sound as good as I like it. I'm already there though I keep rummaging about. I still go out to listen to multi thousand dollar systems and see what they sound like. Some sound good but many don't ( to my ears). However it helps to circulate around and meet new people !🙂
It's great meeting new people who walk the same Earth !😀
Last edited:
ashok, I'm with you.
I mean especially the part where you say that hifi = something to do 😀
but, for some people there's a definite "quantum leap" after which it's hard to look back.
IMO, audiophile nirvana = when you afford just the system you need at a certain moment.
I mean especially the part where you say that hifi = something to do 😀
but, for some people there's a definite "quantum leap" after which it's hard to look back.
IMO, audiophile nirvana = when you afford just the system you need at a certain moment.
You do understand that not all of existence can be measured and that we do not know it all, yes?
Example:
If I told you in 1900 that man would fly in a heavier than air craft you would respond in a similar fashion to the person in your post above. You would have had the evidence and current science on your side, and you would have been 100.oo% wrong.
Science and Engineers have been wrong so many times; it's about the most basic logic to assume that there are elements affecting all engineering projects that we do not understand or even know exist at the present time.
There are things we experience that we cannot measure at this time.
Last edited:
that's the most stereotypical and flawed subjectivist argument (which everyone heard ~10 gazillion times) that I won't even bother with it.
LE: with the addition that responding to a post of mine by quoting out of context a phrase that can mean just about everything is another basic flaw; and, again (like most hand wavers here) you are trying to make it look like I'm trying to say something which I don't (and didn't)
LE: with the addition that responding to a post of mine by quoting out of context a phrase that can mean just about everything is another basic flaw; and, again (like most hand wavers here) you are trying to make it look like I'm trying to say something which I don't (and didn't)
Last edited:
- Status
- Not open for further replies.