Up to a point, yes. To accurately reproduce sound requires a flat amplitude and phase response, which a properly designed 'FR' driver can do pretty well in the aforementioned critical ~250-4 kHz BW plus ~ an octave on either side, so of more importance spec wise when shopping than how low, high it goes IME since due to our declining hearing acuity we can 'tack on' [mid-bass] woofer, super-tweeter systems without any obvious sonic penalty, or at least not enough to 'tip the scales' away enough from their benefits.
GM
I don't think it has been modelled yet, it may need a bigger cab. Bjorn would be the one to ask!
There is a pensil design for this driver that would be a good example of what a little full range driver is capable of.
For a non-scientific response, with less theory and more practise:
I was in this position around 2 years ago. Wanted to build some speakers, was basically scared of the challenge of building a XO and was convinced by this forum to go fullrange. I opted for Alpair 10.3MA, in a slot-ported CGR box from frugal-phile. It was OK, good with some music but a bit lightweight in the bass department. After much deliberation I then built the Pensil design for the same drivers. Apart from being really pretty big, they got closer to what I would call a full range but, and maybe this is a characteristic of FR speakers, lacked punch. I listen to a wide range of music from funk/soul, to alt-indie, jazz, post-dub. A rich palette. If my likes were more classical and jazz focussed I might have been happier, but I like some real dynanism in my music and they just weren't providing it.
So, after testing out my XO skills by building a pair of OS for home cinema duty, I eventually replaced the Pensils with some 2.5 floorstanders based on SB Acoustics drivers, kit from Germany. These really deliver what I wanted and I am now happy.
I fully respect the FR community and evangelists, (I have some Alpair 5's in IKEA salad bowls as PC speakers) but you need to be aware of what they are suited to so as to avoid disappointment...
I was in this position around 2 years ago. Wanted to build some speakers, was basically scared of the challenge of building a XO and was convinced by this forum to go fullrange. I opted for Alpair 10.3MA, in a slot-ported CGR box from frugal-phile. It was OK, good with some music but a bit lightweight in the bass department. After much deliberation I then built the Pensil design for the same drivers. Apart from being really pretty big, they got closer to what I would call a full range but, and maybe this is a characteristic of FR speakers, lacked punch. I listen to a wide range of music from funk/soul, to alt-indie, jazz, post-dub. A rich palette. If my likes were more classical and jazz focussed I might have been happier, but I like some real dynanism in my music and they just weren't providing it.
So, after testing out my XO skills by building a pair of OS for home cinema duty, I eventually replaced the Pensils with some 2.5 floorstanders based on SB Acoustics drivers, kit from Germany. These really deliver what I wanted and I am now happy.
I fully respect the FR community and evangelists, (I have some Alpair 5's in IKEA salad bowls as PC speakers) but you need to be aware of what they are suited to so as to avoid disappointment...
TABAQ Large
Hi
The Aucharm is a Little higher Vas than the TB i simmed in the large TABAQ version. But i assume it could work fine in the same enclosure.
If you want to build it, I can double check the sims for this driver.
Hi
Bjørn
Hi
The Aucharm is a Little higher Vas than the TB i simmed in the large TABAQ version. But i assume it could work fine in the same enclosure.
If you want to build it, I can double check the sims for this driver.
Hi
Bjørn
Thank you Bjohannesen, now i'm thinking about it (my brain is going to smoke).
In another thread i'll ask for a Fast speaker plan.
If i'll choose the one way full range configuration i will be very happy for your help.
In another thread i'll ask for a Fast speaker plan.
If i'll choose the one way full range configuration i will be very happy for your help.
You tell 'im Greg. 
Chris, love the Haf-fast. Somehow that's just not you, I've always thought of you as full-ast. 🙂
Chris, love the Haf-fast. Somehow that's just not you, I've always thought of you as full-ast. 🙂
What can I say? There's 'no replacement for displacement', so 'bigger is better' [BIB] rules when it comes to reproducing large [low] frequencies, especially where OB alignments are concerned, so 'crack wise' all you want, but 'Physics, it's the Law'. 😉
WRT to 'fast'; driver displacement has nothing to do with it, it's all about a driver having a compliant suspension [high Vas] and a system over, to 'critically', damped transient response [<0.5 effective Qt], which prosound woofers have; so if the 12PW's published specs are accurate enough, then it should meet the latter criteria, though its very low Qm is much better suited to compression horn loading [acoustically tiny cab alignments] to keep its excursion very low.
In a similar vein, MA drivers appear at a glance to be technically already on the right track towards a Babb Lorelei concept, though whether or not a similar performance can be had without infringing on its patent may pose too many compromises since it's a non-starter if at least its 1" Xmax and high current power handling can't be realized.
GM
The Pensil series of speakers look very straight forward and pretty easy to build, although I didn't see a plan for the Pluvia 7 driver. Is it interchangeable with the Alpair driver?
The Pensil series is Scott[moose]'s, though I inputted a few in Hornresp to see its alignment 'trend' to use, so did a couple for the Pluvia, which may, may not, wind up being the same as Scott's once he has time to do one since he uses MJK's software.
Regardless, here's my 'take' on it if you're anxious to start..........
The Pensil 7.3 is a little small, but sims probably close enough, though for myself I would build it somewhat larger:
Same internal height, driver offset, vent width, stuffing density, i.e. 0.7 lbs/ft^3 [1.56 lbs/~25 oz = ~708 g]
WxD = 8" x 13.56" [i.d.]
vent height = 2.9" [i.d.]
GM
Regardless, here's my 'take' on it if you're anxious to start..........
The Pensil 7.3 is a little small, but sims probably close enough, though for myself I would build it somewhat larger:
Same internal height, driver offset, vent width, stuffing density, i.e. 0.7 lbs/ft^3 [1.56 lbs/~25 oz = ~708 g]
WxD = 8" x 13.56" [i.d.]
vent height = 2.9" [i.d.]
GM
Interesting! Sure would like to see his sims of this driver in both this and the 7.3 as there's only a fraction of a dB difference between them in HR once damped, so audibly the same in the cab's BW and both are audibly off WRT the 7, 7.3 Pensil response plot profiles compared to this one and why my variant is so much larger.
GM
GM
Pardon me if I am wrong in thinking. How about having an isobaric system which would have (lets say) 7" or 8" two wide band whizzer cone drivers and a ported cabinet. This way we reduce the size of cabinet and get little extension at both the end of frequency response.
Regards.
Regards.
This really is only of some worthwhile benefit if the drivers have either a high Vas and/or Qts. Also, the drivers don't need to be identical, so there can be some performance gains to be had when properly done even if it doesn't reduce the cab size much.
GM
What makes a speaker fast sounding?
Not sure if this is the best place to ask, but.....
So one of my guilty music pleasures is speed metal. It is what it sounds like, metal music played fast. Guitar, bass, drums, occasional keyboards, and minimal vocals. It would be considered busy music. I know that full range drivers can be overwhelmed with busy music, so what type of speaker or enclosure can handle busy music and fast music at that? sealed? line array? Do I have to go 3 and 4 way speakers?
What attributes make a speaker sound fast? What parameters would I look for when selecting a driver?
Figure for a small bedroom system at moderate volume.
thanks,
Not sure if this is the best place to ask, but.....
So one of my guilty music pleasures is speed metal. It is what it sounds like, metal music played fast. Guitar, bass, drums, occasional keyboards, and minimal vocals. It would be considered busy music. I know that full range drivers can be overwhelmed with busy music, so what type of speaker or enclosure can handle busy music and fast music at that? sealed? line array? Do I have to go 3 and 4 way speakers?
What attributes make a speaker sound fast? What parameters would I look for when selecting a driver?
Figure for a small bedroom system at moderate volume.
thanks,
Todd,
In my experience for heavier genres/complex metal music you will need some bass augmentation to your full-range/wideband drivers. For the mid-tweeter, better to choose a driver with relatively flat response.
A good 2 way speaker will do better vs a single-driver system for metal; a properly done FAST (Full Range Assisted with woofers) - which is a technically a 2 way also, should work too.
I am still experimenting with single driver designs and metal, but have not been satisfied yet. 🙂
And btw, lot of the rock/metal recordings are not that great, even if the music is great.
Last edited:
As Dave noted, 'speed' per se is a function of usable flat HF BW, but also its system Q [sysQ] in its acceleration BW, so 0.50 [sealed or OB] for transient perfect response.
To go low enough though, as already noted you'll need a separate 0.5 QT wide BW woofer system to fill in the low end for the 'fastest' speaker system, so like in other 'speedy' endeavors, it's all about how 'fast' one can afford to go as ideally it takes a 'full tilt boogie' compression horn system.
All that said, for a typical bedroom at modest SPL, small BLHs or corner BIBs should suffice.
GM