Quick question.
Is there a thread that I can questions about how the FH3 compares with OTHER manufactured speakers? Don't want to do it here if it is inappropriate.
On many other branded threads, one can see comments along the lines of, 'I have speaker A and B at home. Speaker A is better in these areas. Speaker B however is better in these other areas. ...." Love to ask such questions.
Thanks,
UL
Is there a thread that I can questions about how the FH3 compares with OTHER manufactured speakers? Don't want to do it here if it is inappropriate.
On many other branded threads, one can see comments along the lines of, 'I have speaker A and B at home. Speaker A is better in these areas. Speaker B however is better in these other areas. ...." Love to ask such questions.
Thanks,
UL
Some of the folks who've built FHs, or many of the other numerous DIY designs discussed and pictured herein may have gone rather a while since owning, or even listening to "commercial" designs, and in the case of single driver full- range systems, there may very few in the mainstream about which it could be said comparisons would be of like type - IOW apples to cheesecake
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Let me take a stab at the question, even though I don't have the FH built yet. My main current speakers are a pair of Proac 2.5 clones that I made a number of years ago when they were the rage on a different forum. Lots was written about them. I modded the original design by changing the tweeter from ScanSpeak 8913? to the current 9500 that I have. I worked with Troels Gravesen to get the crossover right. These speakers go very low, have excellent sound stage and placement, and are fantastic for rock and large orchestras. I would come back from the occasional audio show and just be happy that I had these.
Just a month or two ago I made a pair of mini horn speakers (just a much reduced size FH) in foam core using a pair of FE126e drivers. It was quite a revelation. Vocals had a presence unlike anything my big speakers could do or I'd ever heard before, instruments were in the room, soundstage was precise. Even my wife noticed. What was lacking of course was the deep bass. There happened to be another audio show here in my home Brooklyn, and I came away just wanting to listen to my little horns (or maybe TL?). Lots of big bloated sound, lots of very overpriced speakers, lots of unimpressive sounding electronics at the show.
So here I go building a real pair of FHs, still debating the driver I'll use since I gave my mini horns with the drivers to my daughter for her dorm room. I haven't really done much in DIY audio for long while, but I'm dusting off the tools (literally) and pulling everything together to get a pair built.
Just a month or two ago I made a pair of mini horn speakers (just a much reduced size FH) in foam core using a pair of FE126e drivers. It was quite a revelation. Vocals had a presence unlike anything my big speakers could do or I'd ever heard before, instruments were in the room, soundstage was precise. Even my wife noticed. What was lacking of course was the deep bass. There happened to be another audio show here in my home Brooklyn, and I came away just wanting to listen to my little horns (or maybe TL?). Lots of big bloated sound, lots of very overpriced speakers, lots of unimpressive sounding electronics at the show.
So here I go building a real pair of FHs, still debating the driver I'll use since I gave my mini horns with the drivers to my daughter for her dorm room. I haven't really done much in DIY audio for long while, but I'm dusting off the tools (literally) and pulling everything together to get a pair built.
This is one of those things you have to experience for yourself. Most people that own big commercial speakers just won't believe what many of the 4-5" drivers are capable of. They think we're all full of it.
jeff
I feel like my FH3's need a driver with some Whizzer cones, Whats the best out there that will work great with the FH3's? Like FE166En but in the right size.
Should I add a tweeter? At what crossover point should I transition to the tweeter when using a 126En?
Thanks heaps in advance!
Should I add a tweeter? At what crossover point should I transition to the tweeter when using a 126En?
Thanks heaps in advance!
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"Best" differs from person to person...
The Alpair 7.3 is a good choice for the FH3 - if you search the forums you will find plenty of good feedback.
And oh, Mark Audio drivers are whizzerless, but have good high frequency extension. The Alpair 7.3 HF extension is very good.
Thanks for that!
Has anyone tried an up-firing Frugelhorn with a dispersion/diffusion cone ontop? Or does it just not have enough juice to fill a room like that?
freax -
relocating any of the candidate drivers for the FH3 to the top panel would change the loading of the horn - it'd work in the strictest sense that you'd still get a fair amount of output, but certainly not optimally tuned for "below the mass corner"
I doubt few folks would find the FE126 needing a tweeter
The reflection of the FH3 & XL's rear radiation adds tremendously to the dimension of soundstage - how well they fill the room will depend on its size, and the presence of furniture, etc
To date, I've heard at least 10 dozen different models of drivers in the FH3, and of those widely available, my choice so far would have to be the Alpair7.3. My absolute favorite is the MAOP version of that model - but those are rather rare - I'm told I have the only pair outside of Japan so far.
There is a very nice performing, compact footprint enclosure with a second, top mounted FR driver that might also be worth considering - the Castle Microtower - page 4 in the plan set http://frugal-phile.com/boxlib/P10free/microTower-maps-290412.pdf
I've built 2 variations on this design - the most recent one with top angled forward at 5dg. Its compact footprint simply works better for "our" furniture arrangement.
relocating any of the candidate drivers for the FH3 to the top panel would change the loading of the horn - it'd work in the strictest sense that you'd still get a fair amount of output, but certainly not optimally tuned for "below the mass corner"
I doubt few folks would find the FE126 needing a tweeter
The reflection of the FH3 & XL's rear radiation adds tremendously to the dimension of soundstage - how well they fill the room will depend on its size, and the presence of furniture, etc
To date, I've heard at least 10 dozen different models of drivers in the FH3, and of those widely available, my choice so far would have to be the Alpair7.3. My absolute favorite is the MAOP version of that model - but those are rather rare - I'm told I have the only pair outside of Japan so far.
There is a very nice performing, compact footprint enclosure with a second, top mounted FR driver that might also be worth considering - the Castle Microtower - page 4 in the plan set http://frugal-phile.com/boxlib/P10free/microTower-maps-290412.pdf
I've built 2 variations on this design - the most recent one with top angled forward at 5dg. Its compact footprint simply works better for "our" furniture arrangement.
Roger.
Thats just fan-talk. They do need a tweeter, badly, but it depends upon the kind of music you listen to, I listen a lot to digital and female voice singers like Grimes or Bjork, ever listened to high-pitched/register singers? Ever noticed how you cannot understand the lyrics without those higher frequencies? mmm.. I have. I cannot understand much of anything.
I'm going to have to add a set to mine, or equalize higher frequencies. As soon as I increased the gain from 8khz on up to 20khz I could immediatley notice and identify vocals, but they were buried before.
Agreed, they are a speaker which requires a room or a decent sized wall to work at all in bass frequencies.
mmm, food for thought.
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High register singers? - Alison Krauss, Loreena McKennitt, Patricia Barber, Dadawa, Wailin Jennys, Christina Aguilera, Sinead O'Connor, k.d. Lang, to name but a few, can on any given day percolate around the edge of crisply detailed and well forward and bubble over to "too close to the mike, are we now?" , and more in your face than I'd like. - almost got rude there, thinking about lap / face.
From my own experience with the FE126, several other Fostex in that size class, and most of the Alpairs, I'd opine that it's the 126's resonances in the 5-7 kHz range that could be more of an issue than their lack of extension beyond 12kHz. One needs to exercise caution in application of signal EQ in that range to avoid compression of higher order harmonics of vocal percussives that could fog the "air", as synthethic as much of that on commercial recordings might be.
I find the A7.3s far more refined, and resolving of low level, inner detail "ambience cues" than the 126. The FF series, OTOH, i find quite nice -most particularly the 85WK - when used within its limits (say above 200 or so) a stunningly good performer.
With regards to the FH3 specifically, unless severely constrained by power levels/ budget for upgrading amp(s), I'd personally take the A7.3 - maybe the new papers, over the FE126
From my own experience with the FE126, several other Fostex in that size class, and most of the Alpairs, I'd opine that it's the 126's resonances in the 5-7 kHz range that could be more of an issue than their lack of extension beyond 12kHz. One needs to exercise caution in application of signal EQ in that range to avoid compression of higher order harmonics of vocal percussives that could fog the "air", as synthethic as much of that on commercial recordings might be.
I find the A7.3s far more refined, and resolving of low level, inner detail "ambience cues" than the 126. The FF series, OTOH, i find quite nice -most particularly the 85WK - when used within its limits (say above 200 or so) a stunningly good performer.
With regards to the FH3 specifically, unless severely constrained by power levels/ budget for upgrading amp(s), I'd personally take the A7.3 - maybe the new papers, over the FE126
This is one of those things you have to experience for yourself. Most people that own big commercial speakers just won't believe what many of the 4-5" drivers are capable of. They think we're all full of it.
jeff
Perhaps not full of it But certainly a Fan Boy perspective inherent
Their resolving power is Acceptable.. but leaves a Lot 'on the table' and their Bass/dynamics ? Erm.. Please this is real life.
These perform decently for a couple of hundred $ speakers.
But Dave Wilson et al won't be losing much sleep.
mmm it must be my digital transport then that is affecting the higher audio frequencies.
At the moment I'm using a Pioneer DV-344 (Which works excellent on vocals), but when I wrote that post I was using my onboard soundcard digital RCA output running ASIO (Yes the realtek chipset does have ASIO support.)
I'm using the Pioneer DV-344 now but as I said when I wrote that post I was limited by what the onboard soundcard digital output could do. Yesterday I pulled it apart and removed a nearby optical toslink diode from the same 5v bus as the spdif output goes to, I think that there is a level shifting transistor there which alters the level of the output coming from the transport to something which is spdif standardized.
I also done some other mods, check my website (when its up, will be placed in my sig) to see what I done.
If digital is so great then why do we have to spend hundreds of dollars on upgrading everything? I'm really sick of the cockyness surrounding digital, if it does this to the higher frequencies on a cheap assed digital soundcard output then what hope do the rest of the population have of ever achieving high fidelity. The motherboard is brand new by the way, with overkill amounts of voltage regulation, I would've thought that it would be quieter than this.
It was seriously screwing with the sound. Must be all of those nearby USB ports.
But yes having everything digital is more convenient.
Understood, avoid fog when fiddling with my equalizer.
mmm
I am severely constrained by my power budget more so than most people, everything is running off a 400AH 800W off-grid solar system. So none of that loading-down of LM317's that SY has stated and no vacuum tube amplifiers running 24/7, and no leaving things on to 'burn them in'. I don't believe in burn-in anyway.
My KT88 tube amp only gets turned on during comparisons, otherwise its the TDA2822M which gets a run for the money. (I've already reached the limits of what the TDA2822M can do too, so a new single chip project will be on the bench come next year.
Thanks for the advice again chrisb.
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Bare: should we be worried about whether the likes of Mr Wilson are even aware that something like DIY audio - the past time, not Website- even exists?
I think we all get it, you vacillate between enlightened disdain and mild bemusement at our splashing around in the kiddie pool here - but as no endangered species creatures have yet been documented as being harmed by our follies, why not just let us continue to revel in our ignorance?
Either too much, or not enough, Cabernet with this evening's repast - that can easily be remedied
ciao
I think we all get it, you vacillate between enlightened disdain and mild bemusement at our splashing around in the kiddie pool here - but as no endangered species creatures have yet been documented as being harmed by our follies, why not just let us continue to revel in our ignorance?
Either too much, or not enough, Cabernet with this evening's repast - that can easily be remedied
ciao
Speaking of which..
In the Australian outback there is an insect called the Jewel beetle of which the male counterpart is attracted to the very large Female Jewel Beetles.. unfortunatley the discarded beer bottles from passing by trucks and walking aboriginies were causing them problems, see the colour of the beer bottles have just the right colour and texture to attract the males to this enormous female Jewel beetle. (Male Jewel Beetles think that the bigger the female the better.)
The females didn't get any action. So they faced extinction.
It wasn't until the bottles were redesigned that this behaviour stopped.
My point is this, its not what you see now but what you cannot see which will hump your beer bottle later
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