I'm thinking this thread has run it's course. It will remain open only as long as the posts are on topic. Starting now.
Ok! Let's discuss...uhmm..pick one....Steorn? Or have we done that already?
If it hasn't been brought up yet, here it is:
http://www.peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Steorn_Free_Energy
And another interesting one, that obviously, begs for John's comments. From what you say of your background, your comments should prove enlightening, hopefully, in some way.
"Dr. Bussard and his team at Energy/Matter Conversion Corporation, after close to 20 years of hard work, have developed a revolutionary radiation-free fusion process that takes boron-11 and fuses a proton to it, producing, in its excited state, a carbon-12 atom. This excited carbon-12 atom decays to beryllium-8 and helium-4. It was developed under a DOD contract and has recently been made public.'
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Inertial-Electrodynamic_Fusion_Device
If it hasn't been brought up yet, here it is:
http://www.peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Steorn_Free_Energy
And another interesting one, that obviously, begs for John's comments. From what you say of your background, your comments should prove enlightening, hopefully, in some way.
"Dr. Bussard and his team at Energy/Matter Conversion Corporation, after close to 20 years of hard work, have developed a revolutionary radiation-free fusion process that takes boron-11 and fuses a proton to it, producing, in its excited state, a carbon-12 atom. This excited carbon-12 atom decays to beryllium-8 and helium-4. It was developed under a DOD contract and has recently been made public.'
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Inertial-Electrodynamic_Fusion_Device
KBK, this new energy conversion and related issues are going to come, but they won't be discussed here, without the usual criticisms.
You mean without a healthy skepticism?
I'm more of a Stirling Cycle or Tesla Turbine kinda guy myself. I think there is far more promise of developing uber-efficient technologies that are known to work, rather than chasing concepts that we don't know can. Don't get me wrong, we need people that can think outside the box, but if we wait for any useful results from the scientific equivalents of “conceptual artists”, I have a feeling we will be waiting a l-o-n-g time. Meanwhile, if we were to cover 10 square miles of Death Valley, CA with solar collectors feeding Stirling Cycle generators, at the current state of the art for efficiency of 38%(theoretically they are capable of around 90%), we could generate enough energy to satisfy the entire U.S..
-Casey
Oops..dropped a zero, that should read "100 square miles".
It's 2AM here, and I'm on Oxycodone for a hip injury..I'm impressed with the fact I can find any of the keyboard keys 😀
-Casey
Giving humanity more energy will only make the situation worse in the long run. History has shown that man has not the wisdom to regulate his own activity. The real environmental crisis' are in resource over exploitation (ie wood, copper etc) with energy as an immediate sideline to the big picture. Only a crisis has ever lead to a correct understanding of mans place in the scheme of things and what limits he has to impose on himself.
It is speculated that the whole of the North American Indian culture is based on the experience of a huge environmental crisis which was brought on by pushing beyond the limits of his environment.
Find us free/cheap energy, but don't then give it to fools who can only kill themselves (and me) with it.
Shoog
It is speculated that the whole of the North American Indian culture is based on the experience of a huge environmental crisis which was brought on by pushing beyond the limits of his environment.
Find us free/cheap energy, but don't then give it to fools who can only kill themselves (and me) with it.
Shoog
KBK said:
Holy mackeral, I clicked that link, and MAN, it's for real..holy mackeral, how did I not ever hear of this...😕 😕
It says right there:
Sooooo, I says to myself, "self", google that organization to find out more..
Wow, the "IAS...sheesh", it's gotta be real..
Waitaminute, waitaminute,what's this? When I clicked the wickipedia link, they have a disclaimer at the top, it says this:
I've no idea what this means with respect to the credibility of the organization...sooooo, check answers.com, get this:
Waitamimute, waitaminute..there's TWO "International Academy of Sciences"????😕 😕
The IAS I am aware of is not this one...The IAS I know of is this:
Boy, I gotta tell ya, the IAS you provided the link to, wow that really looked like the real deal..I am amazed that two organizations are allowed to have the same name, one the ligitimate IAS, the second this org created by Dr. Billings.
Would you happen to know if the REAL IAS lauded this Bussard fusion thing??
I'd do more research into this before I sunk any money into it, man oh man..I wonder how many people fell for that shell game.
Cheers, John
Hopefully not many fall for it, if indeed such is - as you say from your look at it.
Due dilligence and all that.
I only point at things which seem to beg for investigation, not being capable of the scientific level of investigation such (exact) things require.
DOD? Perhaps they werre missing a letter, like another 'O'. Then it would be coming from 'DOOD' research. 😀 (as in, smoke another one 'dood!')
As an example, I waited for the Tilley ('Tilley foundation', don't bother researching unless you are interested in seeing how apparent shysters crumbled down) thing to 'clear' itself. Neither arguing for, or against it. Merely observing.
The alarm bells tend to go off when a bizarre list of officious sounding names and organizations appear out of nowhere, which you have noted.
And John, nor do I expect you to sit here, waste your time ad infinum, and be everybody's Plastic Jesus. "Lord..I have a bald spot..can you cure it?" etc.
Due dilligence and all that.
I only point at things which seem to beg for investigation, not being capable of the scientific level of investigation such (exact) things require.
DOD? Perhaps they werre missing a letter, like another 'O'. Then it would be coming from 'DOOD' research. 😀 (as in, smoke another one 'dood!')
As an example, I waited for the Tilley ('Tilley foundation', don't bother researching unless you are interested in seeing how apparent shysters crumbled down) thing to 'clear' itself. Neither arguing for, or against it. Merely observing.
The alarm bells tend to go off when a bizarre list of officious sounding names and organizations appear out of nowhere, which you have noted.
And John, nor do I expect you to sit here, waste your time ad infinum, and be everybody's Plastic Jesus. "Lord..I have a bald spot..can you cure it?" etc.
KBK said:
Of course it begs investigation. What suprised me was the fact that the IAS lauded it, but upon further investigation (on the web no less), it turns out it's not the same IAS.
One has to wonder about the motives for naming an organization the EXACT same name as a really high brainpower org.
As I always hear, follow the money trail..who pays the bills at the second IAS?
As for Bussard, did some more looking..As I suspected, it is the same guy who gave SF the Bussard Ramjet..a major cool concept I believe I read it in Niven first..
The actual physics behind his fusion claim may indeed be legit, I cannot say without further digging. But I did find a comment (again, on the web) which said this process requires even hotter temps than the ITER fusion process. Bussard wants 200 million to fund his research? Yah, that'l happen soon.
He did note that he has to make better proton sources (and I think electron sources) to scale up, but without numbers, I've no idea if what he proposes is doable..it could be that the energy needed to produce the proton beam exceeds the return for a reasonable collision rate..and downstream of a proton beam target is radioactive as all getout..google jparc neutrino source, the target for the 50 Gev proton beam has some major activation problems after it's been run for a while. (I'm makin some widgits for that one). The same for the ILC, it's a 20 megawatt e-beam hitting a 20 megawatt positron beam, with some major radiation concerns..(makins widgits here also) .
So while the actual process makin the helium is not producing neutrons, the process to get there may be a major source.
Cheers, John
edit: ya did it again...
"Drop kick me Jesus...through the goalpost of life"..
I have the original edition of Ringworld, with the mathematical errors. Mint shape. May as well read the cheap later editions. Would it suprise anyone that I have nearly 4k sci-fi novels? Stopped reading years ago, nothing new in quite some time.
As for Steorn, that's another matter as well. Something might evolve out of that one soon. whatever direction that may be, it is finally coming to some sort of a head.
Cal, I do appreciate the idea of staying on topic, but there are aspects of the whole idea of it being a 'science' (the over unity stuff) that beg to be covered, considering the human interference/denial/whatever angle.
As for Steorn, that's another matter as well. Something might evolve out of that one soon. whatever direction that may be, it is finally coming to some sort of a head.
Cal, I do appreciate the idea of staying on topic, but there are aspects of the whole idea of it being a 'science' (the over unity stuff) that beg to be covered, considering the human interference/denial/whatever angle.
Anyone believe there is any merrit in the "Bubble Fusion".
I understand it was poo-pood, but there was some doubt still.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bubble_fusion
Shoog
I understand it was poo-pood, but there was some doubt still.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bubble_fusion
Shoog
jneutron said:
It took me a while, but: 'Kinky Freidman'.
The monatomic stuff, apparently has superconductive aspects (over unity! on topic!), and this is one of the outfits that has apparently validated it's correctness as an 'existent' and 'real thing'. Ie, exactly as it is claimed to be.
It was submitted to this outfit by the author Laurence Gardner, in an effort to pursue it's validity. I would suspect so for Gardner, so as not to damage his reptutation, when he bagan it's investigation and promotion.
Just a bit from their site, to show it may be a real thing, not some pipe dream. Once again, I am merely pointing at it, as it begs a further look - deeper investigation:
The Department of Materials received its second boost of 2005 for its commercial activities when the Oxford Materials Characterization Service (OMCS) team was recently awarded the Department of Trade and Industry’s Micro and Nanotechnology (MNT) Quality Mark in recognition of business excellence in the MNT field. The award follows the announcement earlier this year of £1.6m from the DTI MNT Programme to extend the services offered by OMCS through the establishment of BegbrokeNano – a new national centre for characterization of materials involved in micro and nanotechnology.
Based at Begbroke Science Park, OMCS was established in October 2002 as a point of contact for those wishing to access facilities and expertise within the Department of Materials. OMCS now deals with between 200 and 300 contracts a year, providing both industry and University members with a range of services including materials characterization using the unique range of analytical instruments available within the Department such as advanced microscopy and X-ray techniques.
The DTI funding, which will be matched by the University and equipment suppliers, will allow BegbrokeNano to meet the needs of the MNT community by extending the existing capabilities of the Department with new equipment and more staff.
And the site itself:
http://www.begbrokenano.com/
View of their cleanroom, apparently, a very small sample of the workspaces available to them, and used in their research.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
A bit more:
OMCS was established in October 2002 as a point of contact for those wishing to access facilities and expertise within the Department of Materials. These facilities have been augmented recently with a range of equipment under the banner BegbrokeNano.
BegbrokeNano, one of the DTI funded UK Micro Nano Technology (MNT) Centres of Excellence, aims to provide companies involved in MNT with unrivalled facilities for materials characterisation. By forming partnerships with leading analytical equipment manufacturers, the Department of Materials at Oxford University are using the funding to provide a dedicated suite for the analysis of micro and nanoscaled structures.
There's just too much of a hint of reality to simply wipe it off the plate as a fantasy. It bears investigation.
Sometimes things come out of left field and smack us upside the head...just like that patent clerk did, way back in 1905.
Due to the obliqueness of the whole thing, with regards to it's entry into the area of modern physics, it may have not (or may not) be 'exploding' into scientific awareness in the same way as that 1905 sourced revolution.
Gardner claims he submitted the 'monatomics' via the Hudson derived process to this facility, via connections through Oxford University. Meaning with direct contact and working with Oxford University.
A visit to Gardners site, and a few phone calls, would at the least, begin to show wether it is a pipe dream or not. Too many chances and room for being tripped up on this one. Too many chances for it to be real to simply walk away from it without investigation.
The taping of Hudson's lectures, and the material contained within, are what made me sit up and take notice. Too many chances there to be shot down again. Too many things lined up to simply walk away. Do a google search for 'david hudson at the ranch' for the mp3 lectures. There is a series of about 14 of them. (mp3 files)
It is interesting to note that, apparently, Hudson blew his fortune pursuing this, and ended up broke. $9 million. And he seemingly does not want or ask for anyone's money.
What he says, is that once he really found out what he had his hands on, the money aspect did not cloud his mind anymore. He originally pursued it for the money, but as it evolved into what it did, it dawned on him it's potential for humanity..was too big to cry me! me! me! on it. He let it go, to the point that he submitted his patents for the record (in multiple countries, 22 patents!), but did not finish them, and thus..left it on the patent record so no-one else could ever patent any aspect of it. Thus leaving it open for all mankind.
This is the listing, from Laurence Garnder's site, where different companies (wacky as they may seem or be! wheeeooo!) are supplying product. Pardon them and give them a break - they are coming from the metaphysics angle, as is their wont. Valid science and physics has originated and unfolded from stranger places than this.
http://www.graal.co.uk/whitepowdergold.html
These companies, according to the Gardner site, have submitted the products to Gardner, where he has taken them to Oxford, and validated their truth in content, via the mentioned facilites.
The whole thing is rather interesting. There is the very appearence of, at the least, of leaving no holes in the argument. Which is only correct, considering the wall (pressures) they may be up against.
I myself, have purchased the product from this company in order to pursue it further. Always nice to have such in hand to attempt to do a check of fantasy vs. reality:
http://www.whitepowdergold.com/
This is, apparently, purely elemental gold, reduced to a monatomic state, and distilled water. Apparently, nothing other than that, will be found, under any known form of analysis. The tiny lump in the lower right of the bottle, is the monatomic gold in the water-gold mix, coagulating a bit, as it apparently likes to do, when in this state-mixed with the distilled water. It is freakish stuff, it lumps and behaves like nothing I have ever seen.
It is, as I learened from conversation with the website owners, claimed to be derived via alchemical means from elemental gold, which some of the sites do not do - or claim. Some claim to derive their products from 'natural' sources, ie, out of soil mixes, as Hudson claims volcanic ash soil is loaded with it, to the tune of 6% of mass (in monatomic ceramic form), which apparently, due to it's nature, defies traditional analysis. Hense it's lack of recognition of existence. According to the information on the listed 'at the ranch' site, it is not properly recognized in traditional analysis.
I chose a company that claims the purely elemental gold-alchemical conversion process, considering that such would be a better place to start. Like the alchemical stories of old, these folks say the method is slow, and takes up to 6-8 weeks to achieve. It was difficult to leave my money with a bunch of potential shysters for 8 weeks, wondering if I was going to be deliverd anything at all. It eventually showed up, and now I'm trying to figure out what to do with it. Yes, contrary to what some here might believe, I do posess some mode of self protection and comon sense, but I won't walk way from such things without some sort of investigation.
This, John, I think, might be right up your alley, in terms of what it might be, if it turns out to be real. This, concerning the potential aspects surrounding it - of hard leading edge physics research.
http://www.graal.co.uk/whitepowdergold.html
These companies, according to the Gardner site, have submitted the products to Gardner, where he has taken them to Oxford, and validated their truth in content, via the mentioned facilites.
The whole thing is rather interesting. There is the very appearence of, at the least, of leaving no holes in the argument. Which is only correct, considering the wall (pressures) they may be up against.
I myself, have purchased the product from this company in order to pursue it further. Always nice to have such in hand to attempt to do a check of fantasy vs. reality:
http://www.whitepowdergold.com/
This is, apparently, purely elemental gold, reduced to a monatomic state, and distilled water. Apparently, nothing other than that, will be found, under any known form of analysis. The tiny lump in the lower right of the bottle, is the monatomic gold in the water-gold mix, coagulating a bit, as it apparently likes to do, when in this state-mixed with the distilled water. It is freakish stuff, it lumps and behaves like nothing I have ever seen.
It is, as I learened from conversation with the website owners, claimed to be derived via alchemical means from elemental gold, which some of the sites do not do - or claim. Some claim to derive their products from 'natural' sources, ie, out of soil mixes, as Hudson claims volcanic ash soil is loaded with it, to the tune of 6% of mass (in monatomic ceramic form), which apparently, due to it's nature, defies traditional analysis. Hense it's lack of recognition of existence. According to the information on the listed 'at the ranch' site, it is not properly recognized in traditional analysis.
I chose a company that claims the purely elemental gold-alchemical conversion process, considering that such would be a better place to start. Like the alchemical stories of old, these folks say the method is slow, and takes up to 6-8 weeks to achieve. It was difficult to leave my money with a bunch of potential shysters for 8 weeks, wondering if I was going to be deliverd anything at all. It eventually showed up, and now I'm trying to figure out what to do with it. Yes, contrary to what some here might believe, I do posess some mode of self protection and comon sense, but I won't walk way from such things without some sort of investigation.
This, John, I think, might be right up your alley, in terms of what it might be, if it turns out to be real. This, concerning the potential aspects surrounding it - of hard leading edge physics research.
Another point.
It would be terrifically difficult, at best, to slip by me, a mix of any powder or substance in ANY distillation method, or ANY grinding method known to mankind, period - that I could not recognise as being false. Ie, a bit of ground sand (silica or even calcium, titanium, etc, whatever) and water.
Why?
Well, the company I am involved with has it's own grinding systems, which are universally known, in the entire pigment industry, and coating industry, PERIOD! as being the best around. Closely guarded secrets. We can take the best pigments and powders in the world and create dispersions of finer pigments and finer grinds than anyone else. We take the finest pigments in the world and grind them finer than they can. To the point where 3M has a few of our pigment dispersions in their labratory showcase showroom, showing what we can do with their products. We've even had the best pigment manufacturers in the world come to our door and beg us to share our secrets with the industry so they can benefit in terms of sales of their pigment products to others.
I have seen evey single kind of coagulation, clumping, soft settling and hard settling and dispersive ingredients that can be mixed and screwed up or created. Day after day. 6000 diferent coatings designs come out of this factory, all the best in the world.
I have never seen anything that sits in a bottle and behaves like this stuff.
According to what they (Hudson, etc) say about how monatomic substances behave concerning their bonding, clumping, powdering, etc, They'd have to do better than us. period.
Every single one of these companies that produce this monatomic stuff, would have to be doing that. According to what Hudson and crew say about how the monatomic substances behave, they'd likely be doing exactly what they are doing-in this distilled water.
And we are the best in the world at what we do.
Think about that.
I think it bears further investigation.
Caveat Emptor, in the end.... I'm just merely pointing.
It would be terrifically difficult, at best, to slip by me, a mix of any powder or substance in ANY distillation method, or ANY grinding method known to mankind, period - that I could not recognise as being false. Ie, a bit of ground sand (silica or even calcium, titanium, etc, whatever) and water.
Why?
Well, the company I am involved with has it's own grinding systems, which are universally known, in the entire pigment industry, and coating industry, PERIOD! as being the best around. Closely guarded secrets. We can take the best pigments and powders in the world and create dispersions of finer pigments and finer grinds than anyone else. We take the finest pigments in the world and grind them finer than they can. To the point where 3M has a few of our pigment dispersions in their labratory showcase showroom, showing what we can do with their products. We've even had the best pigment manufacturers in the world come to our door and beg us to share our secrets with the industry so they can benefit in terms of sales of their pigment products to others.
I have seen evey single kind of coagulation, clumping, soft settling and hard settling and dispersive ingredients that can be mixed and screwed up or created. Day after day. 6000 diferent coatings designs come out of this factory, all the best in the world.
I have never seen anything that sits in a bottle and behaves like this stuff.
According to what they (Hudson, etc) say about how monatomic substances behave concerning their bonding, clumping, powdering, etc, They'd have to do better than us. period.
Every single one of these companies that produce this monatomic stuff, would have to be doing that. According to what Hudson and crew say about how the monatomic substances behave, they'd likely be doing exactly what they are doing-in this distilled water.
And we are the best in the world at what we do.
Think about that.
I think it bears further investigation.
Caveat Emptor, in the end.... I'm just merely pointing.
I fail to see how this monatomic gold is free energy, unless we count the customer testimonials of feeling more energetic.
That said, I wonder how much actual gold is in "1 ounce" of this solution. Probably not enough to give you heavy metal poisoning. Or, at least you'd go broke first.
And, what's with the price of the silver solution? Gold is worth about 50 times as much as silver, yet the silver solution is still 2/3 the price. It makes the platinum stuff look like a deal by comparison😉.
That said, I wonder how much actual gold is in "1 ounce" of this solution. Probably not enough to give you heavy metal poisoning. Or, at least you'd go broke first.
And, what's with the price of the silver solution? Gold is worth about 50 times as much as silver, yet the silver solution is still 2/3 the price. It makes the platinum stuff look like a deal by comparison😉.
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