looks like some very good progress on the swans.
your pictures will make it easier for others to figure out.
i'm still listening to my 166's on an open baffle, they are bi-amped now. crossed over at 200 hz 24db. hafler d200 on 18's and a sterio 70 triode connected to the 166's. sure is nice to have bass again, i'll be using equal. on the 18's to level out the bottom end a bit, the bass is different from box speakers, but convincing.
catch ya later
bill horn
Don't put crap in your ears!
your pictures will make it easier for others to figure out.
i'm still listening to my 166's on an open baffle, they are bi-amped now. crossed over at 200 hz 24db. hafler d200 on 18's and a sterio 70 triode connected to the 166's. sure is nice to have bass again, i'll be using equal. on the 18's to level out the bottom end a bit, the bass is different from box speakers, but convincing.
catch ya later
bill horn
Don't put crap in your ears!
I installed the drivers in both Swans today and they now make music.
I was planning to veneer the cabs but there is no veneer / contact adhesive available.
I may end up with paint on truck bedliner or something. They sound suprisingly good for new Fostex speakers, I gave them a bit of a break in when I first got them but I was still surprised today.
Already I can hear what I think is going to be VERY good bass, the mids are a bit "cloudy" but that will pass as they settle in.
Once they have a few hundred hours on them I can start to tune the cabs.
Andrew
I was planning to veneer the cabs but there is no veneer / contact adhesive available.
I may end up with paint on truck bedliner or something. They sound suprisingly good for new Fostex speakers, I gave them a bit of a break in when I first got them but I was still surprised today.
Already I can hear what I think is going to be VERY good bass, the mids are a bit "cloudy" but that will pass as they settle in.
Once they have a few hundred hours on them I can start to tune the cabs.
Andrew
Hi!
I would like to ask some theoretical question about the factory recommended enclosure of the FE166 ES-R?
-What kind of horn is this? Expo?
-What is the correct line lenght of the horn? ca 245cm?
-What frequency is it "tuned"?
And the last, but most important:
--Is it possible to build 2 drivers in one factory recommended enclosure of the FE166 ES-R? Is there any theory about it? What would need to modify?
Greets:
Tyimo
I would like to ask some theoretical question about the factory recommended enclosure of the FE166 ES-R?
-What kind of horn is this? Expo?
-What is the correct line lenght of the horn? ca 245cm?
-What frequency is it "tuned"?
And the last, but most important:
--Is it possible to build 2 drivers in one factory recommended enclosure of the FE166 ES-R? Is there any theory about it? What would need to modify?
Greets:
Tyimo
)
The "wave" still sees an expansion" and hence gain.
It's less a path foldings choice, as it is a path -length- priority. A cabinet with straight "folds" will have an approximately 25% longer length capacity as a tapered folding stuffed into the same size box. This will work best with the drivers in small rooms by pushing the output below where room gain (ie modes,peaks) is problematic.
TC
Dave,
I agree, I built the Fostex 103 horns as well and put 103e's in it and thought they sounded terrible. Maybe I did something wrong somewhere but I don't think so. I tossed the horns.
My modded Buschhorn (I modded the original model, with the FRS8 before the larger model came out) sounded much better.
Andrew
I agree, I built the Fostex 103 horns as well and put 103e's in it and thought they sounded terrible. Maybe I did something wrong somewhere but I don't think so. I tossed the horns.
My modded Buschhorn (I modded the original model, with the FRS8 before the larger model came out) sounded much better.
Andrew
mine
well, i have been waiting a while before i posted about my speakers. I have some experimental enclosures. double horns (8foot eachpipe, efectively doubling the total horn length to 16 feet. and sure enough, close to the lowest pitch these produce is that of a 16 foot organ pipe, and man, is that low!) they are made of maple. for a while there i had no damping whatsoever in the cabinets and the sound was surprisingly passable and danceable. to my ears, maple coloring tend to be somewhat eauphonic overall, so there was little problems with this. i have now finally stuffed some stuffing into the exantion chamber and the sound has thoroughly improved. the highs (13k up) are a little soft on these, especially off axis, but everything else is 100 per cent coherent. i have bass like i heard in the fostex room at ces without the tungsten, and all of my music sounds great. I feel that it will be a realistic goal to get these sounding in extremely similar overall character to my sennheiser hd 650s. these things have headphone bass. and though they are more bright than the headphones, i find it to be quite a pleasing attribute. needless to say, i am going to be doing extensive tuning and tweaking to the speaker as a whole, but very slowly, as i consider this driver/horn combo to have the potential to be nearly unbeatable in all attributes as a musical instrument. right now the room i am in is far less than ideal for these horns, as the lowest frequency of these speakers cannot be produced because my room is physically not large or reflective enough.
in either case, i feel extremely lucky to have them, and to be able to play with them. to me, and though i am just a newbie, these things are very very special indeed. they sound space age to my ears. probably the most impressive attribute is simply effortless musical dynamics in all frequencies (except the highest of the highs, where the imaging suffers a tad). also, inner detail is totally there. i compared these to the sennheiser hd 650s, but honestly, i think that in overall presentation (except absolute detail) they are more akin to the orpheus headphones (pleasing brightness). i would heavily suggest that folks really try to get the damping amount and placement right, i have found my set to be very very sensitive to this.
question: when placing damping on the driver chassis, it it logical to place it on the inside of the metal peices connecting the surround to the magnet? and also, i think i can hear certain sounds reflected by the magnet, but i am not sure. should this be dampened too and if so in what fashion. thanks.
look forward to discusing this with all of you.
Clark
well, i have been waiting a while before i posted about my speakers. I have some experimental enclosures. double horns (8foot eachpipe, efectively doubling the total horn length to 16 feet. and sure enough, close to the lowest pitch these produce is that of a 16 foot organ pipe, and man, is that low!) they are made of maple. for a while there i had no damping whatsoever in the cabinets and the sound was surprisingly passable and danceable. to my ears, maple coloring tend to be somewhat eauphonic overall, so there was little problems with this. i have now finally stuffed some stuffing into the exantion chamber and the sound has thoroughly improved. the highs (13k up) are a little soft on these, especially off axis, but everything else is 100 per cent coherent. i have bass like i heard in the fostex room at ces without the tungsten, and all of my music sounds great. I feel that it will be a realistic goal to get these sounding in extremely similar overall character to my sennheiser hd 650s. these things have headphone bass. and though they are more bright than the headphones, i find it to be quite a pleasing attribute. needless to say, i am going to be doing extensive tuning and tweaking to the speaker as a whole, but very slowly, as i consider this driver/horn combo to have the potential to be nearly unbeatable in all attributes as a musical instrument. right now the room i am in is far less than ideal for these horns, as the lowest frequency of these speakers cannot be produced because my room is physically not large or reflective enough.
in either case, i feel extremely lucky to have them, and to be able to play with them. to me, and though i am just a newbie, these things are very very special indeed. they sound space age to my ears. probably the most impressive attribute is simply effortless musical dynamics in all frequencies (except the highest of the highs, where the imaging suffers a tad). also, inner detail is totally there. i compared these to the sennheiser hd 650s, but honestly, i think that in overall presentation (except absolute detail) they are more akin to the orpheus headphones (pleasing brightness). i would heavily suggest that folks really try to get the damping amount and placement right, i have found my set to be very very sensitive to this.
question: when placing damping on the driver chassis, it it logical to place it on the inside of the metal peices connecting the surround to the magnet? and also, i think i can hear certain sounds reflected by the magnet, but i am not sure. should this be dampened too and if so in what fashion. thanks.
look forward to discusing this with all of you.
Clark
Clarks cabinets are a modified version of my double horn built to accomodate this driver.
TC
http://fullrangedriver.com/show_image.php?id=211
TC
http://fullrangedriver.com/show_image.php?id=211
pictures
I don't have a digital camera, and i was trying to wait until i could get them into a proper room (i am moving in a month, yay!) to post audio reviews. The picture TC posted is pretty indicative of the way they look now. I think that another coat or two of finish was put on so they are shinier. I must say, i was a tad skeptical as to whether or not the bass would work out with these enclosures, them not being the reccomended enclosures. I have not heard the reccomended enclosures, but i guess i reccomend these! I must concur with previous debate - do not use MDF for the cabinets. high quality plywood is what is called for by fostex in specific and the whole theory behind the BLH. the difference is not subtle. even then, these things are worth having a few different cabinets in various styles just for different styles of music. (i think maybe maple for string instruments and pine for piano?), but i am just being playful. you could say that about alot of drivers. i think the main thing contributing to the spectacularness of the bass and life of the music in these is the stiffness of the maple in these cabinets. after all, string instruments are maple except the soundboard. course, I think that analogy might have limited application to this specific acoustical context, and the tons of symphonies that i listen to for class. granted, it will take many more hundreds of hours of listening and then experimenting with damping of all various kinds to get them just right. the cool thing about it is that these are so worthy of the time spent on tweaking. i have been so surprised with what a difference just a tad extra or less or different kinds of damping, and not to mention amplifiers. i found my favorite solid state so far has been a sugden headmaster (which is for sale by the way) preamping a sonic impact tripath, 5.5 watts into these things will rock a rave party. but usually i use a bottlehead sex amp (which does alot better than it has any right to). I would imagine that these would benifit from paramour monoblocks coming from a foreplay. there is an endless need for tweaking without spending lots of money. heaven.
I am not sure whether or not any more cabinets can be built of this specific model. however, if patience were to prevail, I am sure something will materialize eventually.
I guess again, the most surprising thing to me about this whole project was how dirt cheap the driver was. i mean 120 bucks for this!! i want my 25 cent deusenburg! i mean it is an exxageration, but still. i am constantly surprised about how well these (and fostex drivers in general) compete with some of the craziest of the crazy designs. maybe compete is not the right word though. they are simply a valuable and valid music producing entity in and of themselves. in a way, they don't have to compete.
again, though, anyone saavy on the magnet damping, please give me some guidance. if i glue anything it is a little irreversible. I have this material called deflex that i got from madisound, and it is kindof thin, dense, black, and rubbery. would that work?
so that you all know, i am really busy this time of the year, so if i don't reply immediately, i am not being rude, i am just being in class and the library.
thanks,
Clark
I don't have a digital camera, and i was trying to wait until i could get them into a proper room (i am moving in a month, yay!) to post audio reviews. The picture TC posted is pretty indicative of the way they look now. I think that another coat or two of finish was put on so they are shinier. I must say, i was a tad skeptical as to whether or not the bass would work out with these enclosures, them not being the reccomended enclosures. I have not heard the reccomended enclosures, but i guess i reccomend these! I must concur with previous debate - do not use MDF for the cabinets. high quality plywood is what is called for by fostex in specific and the whole theory behind the BLH. the difference is not subtle. even then, these things are worth having a few different cabinets in various styles just for different styles of music. (i think maybe maple for string instruments and pine for piano?), but i am just being playful. you could say that about alot of drivers. i think the main thing contributing to the spectacularness of the bass and life of the music in these is the stiffness of the maple in these cabinets. after all, string instruments are maple except the soundboard. course, I think that analogy might have limited application to this specific acoustical context, and the tons of symphonies that i listen to for class. granted, it will take many more hundreds of hours of listening and then experimenting with damping of all various kinds to get them just right. the cool thing about it is that these are so worthy of the time spent on tweaking. i have been so surprised with what a difference just a tad extra or less or different kinds of damping, and not to mention amplifiers. i found my favorite solid state so far has been a sugden headmaster (which is for sale by the way) preamping a sonic impact tripath, 5.5 watts into these things will rock a rave party. but usually i use a bottlehead sex amp (which does alot better than it has any right to). I would imagine that these would benifit from paramour monoblocks coming from a foreplay. there is an endless need for tweaking without spending lots of money. heaven.
I am not sure whether or not any more cabinets can be built of this specific model. however, if patience were to prevail, I am sure something will materialize eventually.
I guess again, the most surprising thing to me about this whole project was how dirt cheap the driver was. i mean 120 bucks for this!! i want my 25 cent deusenburg! i mean it is an exxageration, but still. i am constantly surprised about how well these (and fostex drivers in general) compete with some of the craziest of the crazy designs. maybe compete is not the right word though. they are simply a valuable and valid music producing entity in and of themselves. in a way, they don't have to compete.
again, though, anyone saavy on the magnet damping, please give me some guidance. if i glue anything it is a little irreversible. I have this material called deflex that i got from madisound, and it is kindof thin, dense, black, and rubbery. would that work?
so that you all know, i am really busy this time of the year, so if i don't reply immediately, i am not being rude, i am just being in class and the library.
thanks,
Clark
Clark,
What I have done for magnet damping is to fashion a "hat" from felt, basically a circle the diameter of which allows it to cover the whole magnet (the back and down the sides so the whole magnet assembly is covered). I use Aleene's original "Tacky Glue" applied fairly thick to glue down the felt. You need to trim the felt as it folds over the edge of the magnet with what, I think are called darts, to make a smooth, neat transition. I highly recommend a highend, audiophile rubber band to hold the felt "hat" in place while the glue sets up. It improves the sound so much that you'll probably want to leave it in place, which is what I did. Actually, I was in a hurry to listen to the speakers so I didn't bother to take it off. I really do think that the Aleene's tacky glue is worthwhile as it's a soft craft glue that doesn't harden up too much and probably provides some of the damping effect by itself. I think Dapper Dave from Planet 10 tryed this not too long ago and was able to measure an improvement in the impedance plot. This is in the archives somewhere, but I've not had a lot of success in finding things.
YMMV.
Best Regards,
TerryO
What I have done for magnet damping is to fashion a "hat" from felt, basically a circle the diameter of which allows it to cover the whole magnet (the back and down the sides so the whole magnet assembly is covered). I use Aleene's original "Tacky Glue" applied fairly thick to glue down the felt. You need to trim the felt as it folds over the edge of the magnet with what, I think are called darts, to make a smooth, neat transition. I highly recommend a highend, audiophile rubber band to hold the felt "hat" in place while the glue sets up. It improves the sound so much that you'll probably want to leave it in place, which is what I did. Actually, I was in a hurry to listen to the speakers so I didn't bother to take it off. I really do think that the Aleene's tacky glue is worthwhile as it's a soft craft glue that doesn't harden up too much and probably provides some of the damping effect by itself. I think Dapper Dave from Planet 10 tryed this not too long ago and was able to measure an improvement in the impedance plot. This is in the archives somewhere, but I've not had a lot of success in finding things.
YMMV.
Best Regards,
TerryO
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