re; hornresp.
I've read that the horn throat size affects the high frequencies. I intentionally made the throat of my horn quite large and also has a very rapid flare. The horn response sims show a dramatic roll off of the mids and highs, which I'm not measuring or hearing. I placed my db meter on a tripod, one meter from the horn mouth and at ear level.
I ran sine waves starting at 200hz to 18,289. There is not more than a 11db fluctuation throughout the 20 or so freq. I played, until 16,725 at which there is a rapid drop off. So, I'm getting 200hz to 16,725 until drop off, which doesn't seem to jive with the hornresp plot you posted. I'll plot out a more detailed graph when I get a chance.
Panomaniac....road trip to Ohio? My door is always open & would enjoy meeting you!
I've read that the horn throat size affects the high frequencies. I intentionally made the throat of my horn quite large and also has a very rapid flare. The horn response sims show a dramatic roll off of the mids and highs, which I'm not measuring or hearing. I placed my db meter on a tripod, one meter from the horn mouth and at ear level.
I ran sine waves starting at 200hz to 18,289. There is not more than a 11db fluctuation throughout the 20 or so freq. I played, until 16,725 at which there is a rapid drop off. So, I'm getting 200hz to 16,725 until drop off, which doesn't seem to jive with the hornresp plot you posted. I'll plot out a more detailed graph when I get a chance.
Panomaniac....road trip to Ohio? My door is always open & would enjoy meeting you!
What I meant by comparing the Saburo to the front horn was to see how much, if any, attenuation was occurring due to the front horn. Two posts anticipate a premature high frequency roll off due to the horn, which isn't the case. At one meter, with the Saburo and the 126en Enabled driver, I get a high frequency drop off of 21db from 14,409 to 16,725. About the same place as the 126e in the front horn.
My point earlier was not that the horn was causing any early roll-off, but that you were hearing the direct radiation of the driver. I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm thinking about trying this myself with a pair of FE-206-E's that I have. what I haven't got is a suitable sub to cross to.
My other problem, and I haven't spent enough time working on it to solve it, is that in my Sims with HR the 206 will exceed X-max at about 100Hz. I was hoping to cross them around there, I'm using a larger mouth, and a faster flare rate. Reasoning that the 206's already have a rising response, and designing the horn to roll off in accordance with that rising response.
I like what you've done, and only wish to emulate your results.
The other thread you referred to was the one I was thinking of too.
I'm also considering an exponential expansion too, but won't start on it until I see if I can tame the excursion issues.
John
No arguing here either John, I was just taking issue with the HR graph not being accurate to real life observations. I have a pair of 206's with Dave's plugs in a pair of Sachikos and debated about using them instead. Excellent choice I would think. Keep me posted on your findings. If you end up having to go up to 200hz cut off, I've not found it a problem matching with sub amps. Most have settings to 180hz, but I have mine set at way below that and they integrate nicely with the horns gradual roll off. The alpha's in H frames produce the best bass I've had in my listening room.
I did a short video of my Saburo speakers on youtube and posted them for a person thinking about building them. I would be happy to video these playing music if anyone wants. Not that it is meaningful sonically playing through youtube, but it can be fun.
I did a short video of my Saburo speakers on youtube and posted them for a person thinking about building them. I would be happy to video these playing music if anyone wants. Not that it is meaningful sonically playing through youtube, but it can be fun.
Yes please!
Also, how did you come up with the dimensions for the subs?
I have Alpha 15A's in an open baffle and the bass is ok but not great, I've been wondering though what they'd sound like on their own as a sub...
video posted
Okay, here is a short video of them playing. There is a second video walking around them to give you a better look at the base that holds the horn.
YouTube - Dipole Fostex Front Horn Symphony
Okay, here is a short video of them playing. There is a second video walking around them to give you a better look at the base that holds the horn.
YouTube - Dipole Fostex Front Horn Symphony
I came up with the dimensions after reading MJK's articles and also the fact that I wanted to be able to use them as support if the horn was placed horizontally. I have a few photos of them positioned this way on my blog.
I found that four Alpha 15a's is overkill in my room. I may find a better way to integrate them in the future, but for now I like the sound better using only two.
Have you tried subwoofer plate amps with them? I'm getting great bass with the 100watts per woofer. These are the inexpensive sub amps available from PE. About $100 each. (There are much better ones, but I"m on a budget)
Cool videos, thanks. Surprising how good it sounds on my little desktop speakers. Not at all the typical "mic pointed at the stereo" sound.
I see that you can listen to 2 systems in that room, depending on which way you face. =)
I see that you can listen to 2 systems in that room, depending on which way you face. =)
I did listen to the video on my "big system". Room tone is more obvious there. Fun when going to the sides and back on the Ella piece. It's a great demo.
Funny, on that video at about 1:00 I hear what sounds like someone walking across the floor above and talking. Was it?
Funny, on that video at about 1:00 I hear what sounds like someone walking across the floor above and talking. Was it?
I used my Canon GL-1 camcorder. It has a decent built-in stereo mic. Yes, my 5 year old, 9 year old and my wife were all in the kitchen when I shot that. Wood floor in the kitchen and right above the basement listening room. I shot it, uploaded it, and never realized the background noise showed up.
Well, it gives a flavor of what listening in my room is like at 5pm. 🙄
Well, it gives a flavor of what listening in my room is like at 5pm. 🙄
Yes, well - it was fun. I thought it was a wood floor and the voices sounded like children or a woman. Just goes to show how much you can do with a simple recording rig!
cervelorider,
Would you re-iterate your horn dims'.
I'm trying to "Sketchup" a model to play with.
I have 3/4" panel thickness, Mouth size 24"X48", are the side panels 24" wide, or is that the total depth of the horn?
The throat is IIRC 5.5"X6.5"
Thanks,
John
Would you re-iterate your horn dims'.
I'm trying to "Sketchup" a model to play with.
I have 3/4" panel thickness, Mouth size 24"X48", are the side panels 24" wide, or is that the total depth of the horn?
The throat is IIRC 5.5"X6.5"
Thanks,
John
You got it John, the side panels are 24" wide. If you rip your 4x8 sheet and then crosscut down the middle, you can get your four side panels from one sheet.
Also, only the top and bottom pieces will have a bevel on the sides and that will depend on what mouth size you go with. All four will need a bevel on the mouth end to meet up with the baffle, the angle also depending on the mouth size. Yes, my throat is 5.5"x 6.5".
Derek
Thank you Derek,
Did you find a difference in the sound when you were experimenting with placement of the Horn Horizontally/Vertically?
Kewl looking horns in your blogspot post....
I like the sectoral over the bass horn.
John
Did you find a difference in the sound when you were experimenting with placement of the Horn Horizontally/Vertically?
Kewl looking horns in your blogspot post....
I like the sectoral over the bass horn.
John
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