I'm gradually re-reading the earlier pages and trying to get all caught up to the present. Over the last three or so years I can't remember how much of this I read! 
So here's my other dumb question: Peter based his implementation on the Shigaclone work which had been done around the same time, but of course did his additional magic and wound up with something that he felt bettered his many purpose-built high end transports (one of which I own myself and some f which I'd heard in my own system). With the evolution of this current project (integrated PCB, SMD devices etc), does anyone know what we'll get (sonically) relative to what has been described from these earlier, more discrete build efforts? I suspect I'll be pointed to a page that I have gotten to yet, but I'd appreciate help in getting caught up.
So here's my other dumb question: Peter based his implementation on the Shigaclone work which had been done around the same time, but of course did his additional magic and wound up with something that he felt bettered his many purpose-built high end transports (one of which I own myself and some f which I'd heard in my own system). With the evolution of this current project (integrated PCB, SMD devices etc), does anyone know what we'll get (sonically) relative to what has been described from these earlier, more discrete build efforts? I suspect I'll be pointed to a page that I have gotten to yet
, but I'd appreciate help in getting caught up.
We will get a transport which should theoretically better the original Sanyo, by virtue of its dedicated regulators, and also unnecessary parts being removed. The operative word being "theoretically" - no one can say for sure how it will sound until we build at least one prototype because we will be using completely different components...
Yes, that makes sense. I wonder if it makes sense for one prototype to be built once all the parts are in. Run some listening tests on it, beat it up a bit, see how it does. If there is yet no prototype it may be udeful to see if there are any PCB or part problems.
I wonder if we could entice Pater to listen to one of these against his own creation and his retail transports?
BTW uncle_leon, do you plan to do any of you custom capacitor magic on this PCB version?
I wonder if we could entice Pater to listen to one of these against his own creation and his retail transports?
BTW uncle_leon, do you plan to do any of you custom capacitor magic on this PCB version?
Last edited:
Indeed, I do
Actually, I was looking at the parts list, and realised that we don't have a suitable replacement for the "C906" cap (that unassuming electrolytic which was responsible for the Shigaclone "magic").
Some of you may remember I was doing extensive capacitor listening tests a while back, and found that very few capacitors sounded satisfactorily in this position, and the ones that did were rather expensive (namely Duelund Alexander and V-Cap). What I'm saying is, our transport WILL sound worse than the original in some aspects, if we just use a generic cap here.
With that in mind, I thought about my hand-made capacitors. I have a lower-cost design (which actually beats Duelund Alexander), but I realise that is still too expensive for most people. So I thought, if there was interest, I could re-design it - cut a few corners and bring the price down, while keeping the sound quality good. With my cap the sound would be significantly better than with the original, "magic" C906. I was thinking long and hard, and I really don't think I can make them any cheaper than £15+postage, assuming I was making at least ten. Would anyone be interested?...
Indeed, I do
... With my cap the sound would be significantly better than with the original, "magic" C906. I was thinking long and hard, and I really don't think I can make them any cheaper than £15+postage, assuming I was making at least ten. Would anyone be interested?...
Count me in for two of them uncle_leon!
Thanks and regards
What are the dimensions of the redesigned cap? I might be interested if its a manageable size.
Indeed, I do
Actually, I was looking at the parts list, and realised that we don't have a suitable replacement for the "C906" cap (that unassuming electrolytic which was responsible for the Shigaclone "magic").
Some of you may remember I was doing extensive capacitor listening tests a while back, and found that very few capacitors sounded satisfactorily in this position, and the ones that did were rather expensive (namely Duelund Alexander and V-Cap). What I'm saying is, our transport WILL sound worse than the original in some aspects, if we just use a generic cap here.
With that in mind, I thought about my hand-made capacitors. I have a lower-cost design (which actually beats Duelund Alexander), but I realise that is still too expensive for most people. So I thought, if there was interest, I could re-design it - cut a few corners and bring the price down, while keeping the sound quality good. With my cap the sound would be significantly better than with the original, "magic" C906. I was thinking long and hard, and I really don't think I can make them any cheaper than £15+postage, assuming I was making at least ten. Would anyone be interested?...
Very tasty news, u_l. I did read through those older messages but did have some questions (which I didn't ask back then). Did you ultimately feel that your vnpcap, the Duelund, and the V-Cap were at least as good (or perhaps better) than the no longer available BG that PD used? Had you been able to resolve the concerns of the linseed oil aspect of your vnpcap with respect to long term use? Will going to a more cost effective version of your vnpcap (IYO) compromise its performance?
I seem to recall many deciding over time that the original 0.1uF turned out to be the best one in that location.
Last edited:
Great, looks like there is some interest!
Now, to answer the questions:
Linseed oil turned out to work out great in long term - the caps, if anything, keep improving over time, as the oil cures. It also strengthens the cap by binding the plates more stiffly. The only downside is practicality - it takes a really long time to cure - it's still tacky after a few weeks, and takes a couple of months to cure completely.
The cheaper cap should sound equally good to my VNP Cap - it will still use Mundorf copper and natural silk. The savings will be mostly thanks to a different assembly method - which will only be practical in larger volumes.
I was also going to suggest a cap with no leads - just copper tabs, to which you can solder your favourite wire. This is easy to do yourself and would save me a bit of time.
Another thing is, I normally coat my caps with linseed oil until they stop absorbing it - for the cheap cap the wood will be left bare. Although if there are enough people interested, I will buy a larger quantity of linseed oil and simply dip each cap in it. The oil coating actually serves a purpose (other than cosmetic) - it makes wood less absorbent to moisture, which means it will warp less with humidity changes.
Unfortunately, the bigger capacitor is, the easier it is to make it sound good. Also, bigger size means less work because desired capacity is achieved with fewer plates (which is important because I am trying to make the capacitor cheap). My suggested dimensions would be in the region of 90mm x 90mm, with depth around 20mm + screw heads/nuts. If this is going to be unacceptable, I can make a smaller size - but (for reasons explained above), it would have to cost more.
Now, to answer the questions:
Yes, many people ultimately preferred the original cap, because it was so damned hard to beat. Most caps, even some pretty good ones, were a sideways move at best. But I did feel that both Duelund Alexander and V-Cap were an improvement. I don't think Peter recommended using a Black Gate here (as far as I remember, he used a V-Cap) - and for a good reason, because BG also sounded inferior to the original electrolytic.
Linseed oil turned out to work out great in long term - the caps, if anything, keep improving over time, as the oil cures. It also strengthens the cap by binding the plates more stiffly. The only downside is practicality - it takes a really long time to cure - it's still tacky after a few weeks, and takes a couple of months to cure completely.
The cheaper cap should sound equally good to my VNP Cap - it will still use Mundorf copper and natural silk. The savings will be mostly thanks to a different assembly method - which will only be practical in larger volumes.
I was also going to suggest a cap with no leads - just copper tabs, to which you can solder your favourite wire. This is easy to do yourself and would save me a bit of time.
Another thing is, I normally coat my caps with linseed oil until they stop absorbing it - for the cheap cap the wood will be left bare. Although if there are enough people interested, I will buy a larger quantity of linseed oil and simply dip each cap in it. The oil coating actually serves a purpose (other than cosmetic) - it makes wood less absorbent to moisture, which means it will warp less with humidity changes.
Unfortunately, the bigger capacitor is, the easier it is to make it sound good. Also, bigger size means less work because desired capacity is achieved with fewer plates (which is important because I am trying to make the capacitor cheap). My suggested dimensions would be in the region of 90mm x 90mm, with depth around 20mm + screw heads/nuts. If this is going to be unacceptable, I can make a smaller size - but (for reasons explained above), it would have to cost more.
Last edited:
C906
I can't believe it's impossible to find original c 906, not only it is a must for this project(OK,OK, me too will take pair from oncle_tom) but if sogood I need it for all my projects.
Is it possible someone place a large pic of this C906 on DIY : Wanted dead or alive . Recompense : purchase of at least 1000pcs .
I am serious for the pic !
Now what about resistors ? Original or?
I can't believe it's impossible to find original c 906, not only it is a must for this project(OK,OK, me too will take pair from oncle_tom) but if sogood I need it for all my projects.
Is it possible someone place a large pic of this C906 on DIY : Wanted dead or alive . Recompense : purchase of at least 1000pcs .
I am serious for the pic !
Now what about resistors ? Original or?
Last edited:
IMHO we should go for capacitor specs instead blind searching.
Here are two pictures taken with my 12Mpixel phone.
0.1uF/50V NATCON 105°C SS(M)
Looks like a chinese obscure capacitor !
For resistors I would go for Vishay smd MELF.
Regards,
Tibi
Attachments
Last edited by a moderator:
I decided to just have one of them.
Brgds
BTW: What is the equivalent part number in the new schema? C906=C?
Last edited:
original schematic C906 = new schematic C8
Tracking gain time constant setting pin 10 - LA9242M.
Regards,
Tibi
Last edited by a moderator:
Thanks Tibi.
Does anyone have theories regarding why this part does the magic?
It is maybe in some earlier post but I don't have the time to go thru them again...
Brgds