GM,
Thanx!
mp9,
yes, Kloss used the smaller ribbon, but it is meant to cross higher, and I wanted to cross below where the peak & valleys start. with the LCY-130 I'm thinking I can bring it in before the first rise gets too bad.
as to the cross over slope; i don't understand what you mean "insufficnt attenuation rate = driver distortion"
but i haven't played with higher order x-overs enough to understand them either.
for something like this, i planned on rigging the x-over in software, and playing with different slopes, and different points, (and overlaps) before committing to hardware, then fine-tuning the hardware with different values.
r
Thanx!
mp9,
yes, Kloss used the smaller ribbon, but it is meant to cross higher, and I wanted to cross below where the peak & valleys start. with the LCY-130 I'm thinking I can bring it in before the first rise gets too bad.
as to the cross over slope; i don't understand what you mean "insufficnt attenuation rate = driver distortion"
but i haven't played with higher order x-overs enough to understand them either.
for something like this, i planned on rigging the x-over in software, and playing with different slopes, and different points, (and overlaps) before committing to hardware, then fine-tuning the hardware with different values.
r
not using leap.
never tried building three-way box type systems before.
just built a box using aj.
basic sealed box; "golden ratio" proportions.
Qtc 0.707; using ts paramters from this thread...
F3: 130 Hz, F6 ~ 100Hz
Vb: 3.5 Liters / 213 cu. in.
~ 11 3/16” x 7 ½” x 5 3/16” outside, w/ driver back brace.
was gonna build more seperate enclosures, like Dr. ODD for woofer (and tweeter).
never tried building three-way box type systems before.
just built a box using aj.
basic sealed box; "golden ratio" proportions.
Qtc 0.707; using ts paramters from this thread...
F3: 130 Hz, F6 ~ 100Hz
Vb: 3.5 Liters / 213 cu. in.
~ 11 3/16” x 7 ½” x 5 3/16” outside, w/ driver back brace.
was gonna build more seperate enclosures, like Dr. ODD for woofer (and tweeter).
to summerize:
played around w/ the sealed box, lining, stuffing & such, was never happy w/ sound quality...
built bigger box, jensen imperial style, or replicon style, or bvr style, whatever ya want to call it; over-all sounds much better.
those nasty (10dB) peaks & valleys were still there though...
tried the "box full of caps & chokes," first order, by ear thing for a while, just a choke on the 138, & a nice ribbon w/ a cap.
got better...
Oh no, better with a helper tweeter...
No longer a "full-range," and with electronic bs in the path to boot...
tried mp9's suggestion of using leap.
now 1st order on the 138 & 3rd on the lcy.
and a notch filter takes care of the resonance problem @ 5k, which kills it @ 10k & 20k.
hmmm, the peaks & valleys went away, clear down to + / - 1dB, plus about the same tilt, but to the bass.
warm but detailed & smooth even @ very low levels...
so much for being a purist...
played around w/ the sealed box, lining, stuffing & such, was never happy w/ sound quality...
built bigger box, jensen imperial style, or replicon style, or bvr style, whatever ya want to call it; over-all sounds much better.
those nasty (10dB) peaks & valleys were still there though...
tried the "box full of caps & chokes," first order, by ear thing for a while, just a choke on the 138, & a nice ribbon w/ a cap.
got better...
Oh no, better with a helper tweeter...
No longer a "full-range," and with electronic bs in the path to boot...
tried mp9's suggestion of using leap.
now 1st order on the 138 & 3rd on the lcy.
and a notch filter takes care of the resonance problem @ 5k, which kills it @ 10k & 20k.
hmmm, the peaks & valleys went away, clear down to + / - 1dB, plus about the same tilt, but to the bass.
warm but detailed & smooth even @ very low levels...
so much for being a purist...
didn't have a chance to post it yesterday, for anyone wanting a pair of these, but waiting for the price to go down a few; madisound's blowing FE138ES-Rs out...
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=131&products_id=8480
were $459; now $338...
just don't tell my wife tomorrow... 🙄
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=131&products_id=8480
were $459; now $338...
just don't tell my wife tomorrow... 🙄
i'm beginning to think so much for this whole "fullrange" thing.
mids are so bad on 126s, the wife don't want them in the house.
138s nicer, but much nicer as a three-way.
i haven't been able to come up with "nice, simple, affordable" yet.
maybe asking too much.
r
mids are so bad on 126s, the wife don't want them in the house.
138s nicer, but much nicer as a three-way.
i haven't been able to come up with "nice, simple, affordable" yet.
maybe asking too much.
r
Hi Robert, the FE127E is much easier to get working compared to the FE126E. It doesn't need the box to do much. In fact, you pop it in a box and it's very easy to hear what the box is adding. I have it in a ~10-liter with an adjustable vent. Something to fiddle with...
ooops; that was a typo...
supposed to be 126e.
the wife heard 126eNs in a pair of Fonkens months ago, and remembers them well enough that i know better than to try anything with them.
you can ask her tomorrow about those little bamboo speakers, but she probably won't comment much in public.
Maybe she'll like lowthers or feastrexs in a real room, more like the room we listen in.
She usually notices the, well, non-audiophile things, and tends to ask hard to answer questions...
Like @ rmaf, after a demo of $375,000 coltrains, the salesguy's proudly talking about detail resolution, she ask why they make oboes and soprano saxes all sound like clarinets...
or why is it with those speakers you can tell what kind of guitar is playing, but not these, or why you can't hear the altos, but you can hear instruments in the same range...
and they cost how much???
rrrr...
ok, i just want to enjoy the music...
supposed to be 126e.
the wife heard 126eNs in a pair of Fonkens months ago, and remembers them well enough that i know better than to try anything with them.
you can ask her tomorrow about those little bamboo speakers, but she probably won't comment much in public.
Maybe she'll like lowthers or feastrexs in a real room, more like the room we listen in.
She usually notices the, well, non-audiophile things, and tends to ask hard to answer questions...
Like @ rmaf, after a demo of $375,000 coltrains, the salesguy's proudly talking about detail resolution, she ask why they make oboes and soprano saxes all sound like clarinets...
or why is it with those speakers you can tell what kind of guitar is playing, but not these, or why you can't hear the altos, but you can hear instruments in the same range...
and they cost how much???
rrrr...
ok, i just want to enjoy the music...
thanks, i've been patiently waiting for your followup. so you were correct about the notch filter. i'm guessing that allowed for the 6db/octave slope or not, shows my inexperience. anyway which lcy and what x-over point?serenechaos said:
elsewhere you commented something to the extent of the 166esr sounding better than the 138, have you now changed your mind? sorry for all the questions just not sure if i should be reading between the lines here or if you actually like them. what does your wife think?
mp9,
LCY-130; can cross over lower, & needs to be good below x-over point.
Used 6dB on the 138, & 18dB on the lcy-130.
Don’t remember actual crossover points, they are kinda wide.
Point where they cross is @ 4500 Hz.
.6 coil on 138; 4.7 cap, 1.5 coil, 6.0 cap on the tweeter.
Filter’s a .6 inductor, 15 uf cap, & 5.6 resistor.
Now, I'd just call the 166esr "different" not "better."
They go (a lot) deeper (how much of that is the box?), and still seem to have more harmonics (and many more hours on them).
My "complaint" about the 138s was my buying something I hadn't heard, or thought seriously about how the upper end of the freq chart looked... Should have known anything that looked that rough would hurt my ears. I'm just overly sensitive to that kinda thing for some reason. And not everything I listened to on the 138s had problems out of the box, but some songs, instruments, in some keys... I'd be trying to relax & have to shut it off & go to bed.
They’re nice to listen to now @ low to moderate levels; just very rolled off in the bass… (my opinion)
My wife still likes the Swans with the 108s better.
She says they’re better overall because they’re almost as detailed, smooth, etc, and have that extra octave of bass.
You can listen to them by themselves, to most anything, without a sub, & it’s ok.
The BVRs or whatever you want to call it, sounds ok, just no bass to speak of.
M_Balou
Usually use an EL 84 SET, sometimes a EL84PP, sometimes a 6c45 spud, have used a 2A3, or a Urei 6500 studio amp. Run the subs through the same amp. They’re both ~96 dB efficient.
LCY-130; can cross over lower, & needs to be good below x-over point.
Used 6dB on the 138, & 18dB on the lcy-130.
Don’t remember actual crossover points, they are kinda wide.
Point where they cross is @ 4500 Hz.
.6 coil on 138; 4.7 cap, 1.5 coil, 6.0 cap on the tweeter.
Filter’s a .6 inductor, 15 uf cap, & 5.6 resistor.
Now, I'd just call the 166esr "different" not "better."
They go (a lot) deeper (how much of that is the box?), and still seem to have more harmonics (and many more hours on them).
My "complaint" about the 138s was my buying something I hadn't heard, or thought seriously about how the upper end of the freq chart looked... Should have known anything that looked that rough would hurt my ears. I'm just overly sensitive to that kinda thing for some reason. And not everything I listened to on the 138s had problems out of the box, but some songs, instruments, in some keys... I'd be trying to relax & have to shut it off & go to bed.
They’re nice to listen to now @ low to moderate levels; just very rolled off in the bass… (my opinion)
My wife still likes the Swans with the 108s better.
She says they’re better overall because they’re almost as detailed, smooth, etc, and have that extra octave of bass.
You can listen to them by themselves, to most anything, without a sub, & it’s ok.
The BVRs or whatever you want to call it, sounds ok, just no bass to speak of.
M_Balou
Usually use an EL 84 SET, sometimes a EL84PP, sometimes a 6c45 spud, have used a 2A3, or a Urei 6500 studio amp. Run the subs through the same amp. They’re both ~96 dB efficient.
Well, I almost hate to drag this thread back to the foreground, but I just bought a pair of the FE138ES-R drivers (at the reduced price). Still not sure what I'm going to do with them, but 1.5 Kilos of Alnico was hard to pass up.
A fair amount of controversy over these it would seem. I'm having them shipped to my Dad as I'm still abroad until March. He's spent the last year tweaking up a commercial table saw and is dying to build some enclosures now (and he turns 80 next month). So, I'm thinking to let the ole boy go ahead and build something for these. Time will tell.
Regards, KM
A fair amount of controversy over these it would seem. I'm having them shipped to my Dad as I'm still abroad until March. He's spent the last year tweaking up a commercial table saw and is dying to build some enclosures now (and he turns 80 next month). So, I'm thinking to let the ole boy go ahead and build something for these. Time will tell.
Regards, KM
cool!
great savings too.
let us know what you build, how you like them!
i just wish i could coax some more bass out of mine...
guess i'll try another box...
great savings too.
let us know what you build, how you like them!
i just wish i could coax some more bass out of mine...
guess i'll try another box...
the alnico magnet has lots of appeal to me too. i'm reluctant in light of opinions and my first concern to longevity of it's foam udr surround and foam udr spider. interestingly, seas addressed the issue wrt the new exotic w8 mid-bass /same "special foam rubber" surround as the fullrange f8 - "unlike most plastic foam material, this material is stable and will offer decades of trouble-free operation." fostex doesn't say anything other than "foam", though a fostex link from japan billed the 206es-r (textile surround), a driver to last a lifetime. a guy here already needed to replace the foam surround of a f120a and because the 138 also has a udr spider, well... and for me it would easier buying, especially at the current reduced $$, if fostex used a similar material as seas. fostex didn't respond to my email inquiry and it doesn't have the flattish resp plot of a f120a so... anyway getting back on track i think every box has been tried here except for the swan/turkey and nagota blh plan. please post follow-ups and i hope you enjoy them.