planet10 said:
chrisb said:
It appears they're in a position to not care how much larger the international DIY demand might be for some models (certainly their various distributors could apprise them of those figures).
I guess it would dilute the cache and market price if released to the "great unwashed"
just dreamin - this particular driver certainly seems like one for which many of us DIYers could get ( oops, I mean dedicate ) wood
well, i´m afraid Chris is right, and Dave, you´re right, too, i think we (the ones outside of
Japan) didn´t even had the chance to grab one.
there was an entry on the news section of the Fostex-site from December 13th, saying
that they accept preorders from december 17th 10:30AM.
there was another entry on december 18th, saying that they would no longer accept
preorders.
so why should they even think a second about distributing these drivers internationally,
when they sell all 700 pairs in one single day ??
cheerio, Mirko
Re: impressions?
Hi Clark,
about the power handling, i can say that my 5watts EL84se-amp seems to be more than
enough, at least in my rather smallish room.
and about some more sound impressions... well, these little babies do have some
magic...
they are extremely fast, the dymanics are outstanding, and they do some magic with
voices, bla bla bla... 😉
what impressses me really about these drivers, after listening to them for about 4 weeks, while they are still sittin in boxes that really don´t fit, is the fact that they let me focus on
the music and not only on the sound. they seem to actually "play" the music, rather than
just reproduce the sounds. and they play well with all kinds of music.
For me Music is all about emotions, and my experiance with the es-r´s is , that they
really take you to the inner meaning of the music, they lets you think : "now i
understand, what the person who makes this music truly wanted to express"
cheerio, Mirko
blumenco said:
Hi Clark,
about the power handling, i can say that my 5watts EL84se-amp seems to be more than
enough, at least in my rather smallish room.
and about some more sound impressions... well, these little babies do have some
magic...
they are extremely fast, the dymanics are outstanding, and they do some magic with
voices, bla bla bla... 😉
what impressses me really about these drivers, after listening to them for about 4 weeks, while they are still sittin in boxes that really don´t fit, is the fact that they let me focus on
the music and not only on the sound. they seem to actually "play" the music, rather than
just reproduce the sounds. and they play well with all kinds of music.
For me Music is all about emotions, and my experiance with the es-r´s is , that they
really take you to the inner meaning of the music, they lets you think : "now i
understand, what the person who makes this music truly wanted to express"
cheerio, Mirko
Outstanding dynamics?
How do they sound when you put Goldfrapp's Ooh La La through them with the volume cranked up?
How do they sound when you put Goldfrapp's Ooh La La through them with the volume cranked up?
Scottmoose said:Outstanding dynamics?
How do they sound when you put Goldfrapp's Ooh La La through them with the volume cranked up?
well, unfortunatly i don´t have any from Goldfrapp, and i dunno what other music
you like,
one of the first cd´s i played really loud was Supertramp´s "crime of the century"
and the drums just exploded,
another pleasurable moment was Brahms´s violin-concerto from Hilary Hahn:
wide soundstage, and a belivable image of the full power a symphonic orchestra can
provide, PLUS the oh-so-sweet divine solo-play from miss Hahn.
It's simply the ability to handle large LF transient swings I'm refering to. I suspect if you ran the above through them at anything remotely approaching normal listening levels, you'd run into severe compression.
erh... whaat... ???
i think we a talking about different things. (is it my bad english or just plain dumbness?)
why should there be compression at normal listening levels ?
and of course i´m talking about frequencies above 100hz, cause, as i mentioned before,
with my crapp test boxes there´s no real LF-response.
what do you assume as normal listening level ? when i say loud, i mean something about
92dB
i think we a talking about different things. (is it my bad english or just plain dumbness?)
why should there be compression at normal listening levels ?
and of course i´m talking about frequencies above 100hz, cause, as i mentioned before,
with my crapp test boxes there´s no real LF-response.
what do you assume as normal listening level ? when i say loud, i mean something about
92dB
Anything below 200Hz = bass. Normal listening levels vary, but over 85db will cause hearing damage in the long-term. [Macro] dynamics refers to the ability to handle large transient swings -a small FR driver cannot handle these in the bass regions without suffering compression more or less severely, especially at high sound pressure levels (compared to dedicated woofers), though it may of course do well at higher frequencies which require less excursion & cone area.
ok, now i get it.
and i totally agree with you. cause when i said "outstanding dynamics" i ment
outstanding dynamics for a 5-inch-driver, even these great es-R´s can´t defy
physics.
... but believe it or not, the es-r´s yet have better dynamics then my 168-sigmas in
their BiB´s
and i totally agree with you. cause when i said "outstanding dynamics" i ment
outstanding dynamics for a 5-inch-driver, even these great es-R´s can´t defy
physics.
... but believe it or not, the es-r´s yet have better dynamics then my 168-sigmas in
their BiB´s
HI Mirko,
Any Progess ?
I have also ordert these drivers. I am waiting for them to come to me. At the Moment I am thinking about what I want to do whith them. Three Possibilities are in my mind:
1) Look if I like the Plans they are comming whith.
2) Adapt the Fostex recogmendet FE 108 ES Horn ( make it a bit wider, I think 220 mm where it is 170mm and Bigger Front Chamber for the big Magnet, Volume can be easyly tuned).
3) Littel sealed Box whith a Sub under it.
Bernhard
Any Progess ?
I have also ordert these drivers. I am waiting for them to come to me. At the Moment I am thinking about what I want to do whith them. Three Possibilities are in my mind:
1) Look if I like the Plans they are comming whith.
2) Adapt the Fostex recogmendet FE 108 ES Horn ( make it a bit wider, I think 220 mm where it is 170mm and Bigger Front Chamber for the big Magnet, Volume can be easyly tuned).
3) Littel sealed Box whith a Sub under it.
Bernhard
Dr. ODD said:
Go with #1..... If you build the recommended cab then you'll have something to base other designs against..
Don't do #2......
Do #3 instead of #2... Dave
🙂
Dr. ODD said:
Hi Bernhard,
that´s Great !! now we are 3 Lucky owners of the lovely es-r´s
well, still no new news from me, still waiting for my WT2 to arrive, but it should be here
this week...
i agree with Dave on your possibilities, adapting the 108-sigma-Reco is no good,
when you really want to build a BLH go for the D-74, that thing they designed specially
for the es-r (we discussed that earlier, some around post-80)
as i mentioned earlier, they put a plan for that Swans in the package, IHMO the should
work pretty well, if you can live with their ugliness.
and if you have no probs in messing around with a sub, then your no.3 could work
quite well.
Ähh, Bernhard, you come from Wolfsburg ?? ...know what... i live in Peine (for the ones,
who are not familiar with our beautiful region, that´s some 50km away)
you can mail me directly for further discussion, i don´t wanna talk german here, maybe
we can meet someday...
cheerio, Mirko
Thank you Dave and Mirko for Input
Peine, that´s great. So we can easyly build different things and do some listening Tests together.
Bernhard
Peine, that´s great. So we can easyly build different things and do some listening Tests together.
Bernhard
::new arrival
i have just received a package from eifl.
heavy ****...
i am also quite anxious but waiting for the plans to arrive here.
in the meantime i might build some open baffle's for these drivers, just to get them running and warming up.
any suggestions there?
http://fullrangedriver.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=4&pos=102
i found these on the full range forum and thought i make these for the time being.
cheers from holland
~joris
i have just received a package from eifl.
heavy ****...
i am also quite anxious but waiting for the plans to arrive here.
in the meantime i might build some open baffle's for these drivers, just to get them running and warming up.
any suggestions there?
http://fullrangedriver.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=4&pos=102
i found these on the full range forum and thought i make these for the time being.
cheers from holland
~joris
Hey Joris,
that´s some fantastic news !! Now things are going forward...
and so you finally decided to build the Changs, too ?!?
about these JE-Labs-OB´s, these are AFAIK one of the best OB-designs around,
but now matter what, you won´t get any reasonably bass out of them with
the es-r´s.
well, but for the break-in-time they are more than enough, i think, for the first warm up
before you build the "real" enclosures almost anything will do , easiest thing to do, would
put them into some old little boxes you have lying around (like i did)(..no...don´t slaughter
your fine old Rogers...)
cheerio, Mirko
that´s some fantastic news !! Now things are going forward...
and so you finally decided to build the Changs, too ?!?
about these JE-Labs-OB´s, these are AFAIK one of the best OB-designs around,
but now matter what, you won´t get any reasonably bass out of them with
the es-r´s.
well, but for the break-in-time they are more than enough, i think, for the first warm up
before you build the "real" enclosures almost anything will do , easiest thing to do, would
put them into some old little boxes you have lying around (like i did)(..no...don´t slaughter
your fine old Rogers...)
cheerio, Mirko
I build a TQWT with Mr. King's worksheets for the FX120 (my first self designed speaker) and have had some mail contact with Fostex for the Le of the driver (is not on their data sheet). Because they were very helpful in the past and I'm interested in the FE138ES-R too I mailed to Fostex:
"I searched the net for the TSP, but unfortunately there are not very much informations about this driver. I found the following values: fs=60Hz, Mms=5g, Qts=0.27, a=5.12cm (=>Sd=82.4cm²). Are this values o.k.? Can you help me with the missing data Vas/Bl, Re, Le, Cms?"
Here is the answer:
"Dear Mr. Paul,
The FE138ES-R is the unit which was sold in Japanese market limitedly and offered no service for the international market.
It may be hard for you to understand but almost of all Japanese customers don't use the thiel-small parameters for the box design. Thiel-small parameter is not so popular in Japan comparing with U.S.A. and Europe.
Therefore we didn't measure such data, and we are very sorry that we can't supply data what you expect.
fs/Mms/Qts/a values are correct as you said."
So there seems to be no other way as to measure the TSP to get the missing data.
But I' wondering how they calculate their enclosures in Japan?
Martin
"I searched the net for the TSP, but unfortunately there are not very much informations about this driver. I found the following values: fs=60Hz, Mms=5g, Qts=0.27, a=5.12cm (=>Sd=82.4cm²). Are this values o.k.? Can you help me with the missing data Vas/Bl, Re, Le, Cms?"
Here is the answer:
"Dear Mr. Paul,
The FE138ES-R is the unit which was sold in Japanese market limitedly and offered no service for the international market.
It may be hard for you to understand but almost of all Japanese customers don't use the thiel-small parameters for the box design. Thiel-small parameter is not so popular in Japan comparing with U.S.A. and Europe.
Therefore we didn't measure such data, and we are very sorry that we can't supply data what you expect.
fs/Mms/Qts/a values are correct as you said."
So there seems to be no other way as to measure the TSP to get the missing data.
But I' wondering how they calculate their enclosures in Japan?
Martin
Fs, & Vas are popular in Japan IIRC, both of which pre-date T/S parameters of course. That's then usually combined with a personal philosophy about sound, and sometimes outright guesswork. Whether that means 'accurate' or not is debatable. Many Japanese cabinet designs sound remarkable. Just as many sound apalling IMO, so, as ever, YMMV.
Remember too that horns variations are a big favourite in Japan, and you don't need T/S parameters to design a horn. Only to optimise it, unless you go the cut & shut route & do all your adjustments & measuring in the physical domain, which in balance, is ultimately the most effective, but also the most time consuming & expensive thing to do.
As the 138 was a Japan-only product (mostly), I can't say I'm surprised that they didn't pay much attention to measuring any T/S parameters. The only solution is to measure your own drivers. Which is probably worth doing anyway, as frequently driver manufacturers vie with cable companies for 1st prize in the annual hifi creative writing (i.e. 'fiction') competition.
Remember too that horns variations are a big favourite in Japan, and you don't need T/S parameters to design a horn. Only to optimise it, unless you go the cut & shut route & do all your adjustments & measuring in the physical domain, which in balance, is ultimately the most effective, but also the most time consuming & expensive thing to do.
As the 138 was a Japan-only product (mostly), I can't say I'm surprised that they didn't pay much attention to measuring any T/S parameters. The only solution is to measure your own drivers. Which is probably worth doing anyway, as frequently driver manufacturers vie with cable companies for 1st prize in the annual hifi creative writing (i.e. 'fiction') competition.