In old days, Systems were mass driven and compliance driven, and made to be flat. Done. Not bad.
It´s just there are more efficient ways emerging. Or rather adding to all that. It must come to you as a common sense sooner or later, that something is wrong, when stronger motor provides less SPL than weaker motor. All that rules of thumb for picking suited driver for this cab and that cab, and that certain motor force (Qes) for that enclosure must be chosen. Doesn´t make sense. It would mean, that weaker motor gets you more SPL. No. It doesn´t. Never will (all things being equal).
That´s where I started, and I actually found some people questioning this around the world, and on many forums. And there are very good publications about it. Shame I really cannot find these now.
But these force driven systems are trickier. Behaving more sharply and spikey electrically wise, so you have to process and feed it accordingly, to get the output from it.
Also, I presented you with just one simulation. It might as well be, that in different setup and alignment, the Fane might win. That´s why I wrote that these speakers are highly competitive. Unless you try it in certain situation, it´s just generic data, which will not provide you with any sort of usable data. Or which speaker will give you best outcome.
It´s abuot the system, not just speaker. So, manufacturers cannot do you any good regarding this. One dimensional values won´t cut it for you.
It´s just there are more efficient ways emerging. Or rather adding to all that. It must come to you as a common sense sooner or later, that something is wrong, when stronger motor provides less SPL than weaker motor. All that rules of thumb for picking suited driver for this cab and that cab, and that certain motor force (Qes) for that enclosure must be chosen. Doesn´t make sense. It would mean, that weaker motor gets you more SPL. No. It doesn´t. Never will (all things being equal).
That´s where I started, and I actually found some people questioning this around the world, and on many forums. And there are very good publications about it. Shame I really cannot find these now.
But these force driven systems are trickier. Behaving more sharply and spikey electrically wise, so you have to process and feed it accordingly, to get the output from it.
Also, I presented you with just one simulation. It might as well be, that in different setup and alignment, the Fane might win. That´s why I wrote that these speakers are highly competitive. Unless you try it in certain situation, it´s just generic data, which will not provide you with any sort of usable data. Or which speaker will give you best outcome.
It´s abuot the system, not just speaker. So, manufacturers cannot do you any good regarding this. One dimensional values won´t cut it for you.
Grymer: Oh, well, sorry for taking over the topic. But it was still about suitable driver.
It would be good to simulate in Hornresp, but it´s even more voltage driven with less controls that what we have in WinISD.
Anyway, for Cubo, and about any sub, you need to get most motor force, and most displacement. That´s what you need from the subwoofer driver. Now you can see that LF18G401 has more motor force, but less maximum displacement given by Xmax parameter. Therefore I´d say that If you´re happy with the simulated or measured response of the cubo, by all means, go for LF18G401. It will kick some butts. BUT, if you want to equalize down there under the box tuning, to squeeze the last decibel under 40-35Hz from the box, as it´s not bas heavy, then you´ll be happier to have more cone excursion, and that´s where Fane will do the job for you. BlueAran also has quite good price for it.
Better cab is hard to recommend, because most of the cabs are better at certain things, and worse at other things. If you don´t know by yourself, Then I´d let you try cubo. It´s awesome construction, and with 4-stacks, it can do a lot of work.
Also look at RCF Bassbin (google images, first one) Very decent enclosure, compact, and I had lot of fun with it. I like to recommend it. Four stacks kick *** down to 40-42Hz.
It would be good to simulate in Hornresp, but it´s even more voltage driven with less controls that what we have in WinISD.
Anyway, for Cubo, and about any sub, you need to get most motor force, and most displacement. That´s what you need from the subwoofer driver. Now you can see that LF18G401 has more motor force, but less maximum displacement given by Xmax parameter. Therefore I´d say that If you´re happy with the simulated or measured response of the cubo, by all means, go for LF18G401. It will kick some butts. BUT, if you want to equalize down there under the box tuning, to squeeze the last decibel under 40-35Hz from the box, as it´s not bas heavy, then you´ll be happier to have more cone excursion, and that´s where Fane will do the job for you. BlueAran also has quite good price for it.
Better cab is hard to recommend, because most of the cabs are better at certain things, and worse at other things. If you don´t know by yourself, Then I´d let you try cubo. It´s awesome construction, and with 4-stacks, it can do a lot of work.
Also look at RCF Bassbin (google images, first one) Very decent enclosure, compact, and I had lot of fun with it. I like to recommend it. Four stacks kick *** down to 40-42Hz.
I was never under the illusion that taking the dB ratings from the spec sheet could ever be any more than a rule of thumb, I just hadn't considered there could be such a wild discrepancy between real world performance without, as the user who replied originally suggested, the manufacturer simply having rated it at 2.83v / 4ohms.
The difference between B&C and Fane specs is clear now - one is 1w @ 1m measurements, one is 2.83v @ 8ohms, and that does seem to have been reflected in the published response plots.
Grymer: The Fane will be amazing in a Cubo18, there's absolutely no doubt about that. It's got so many good things going for it. No matter how you interpret the measurements, it's very efficient for an 18", especially for such a beefy one.
Cubo18 is more flexible than the sub (smaller and a bit punchier in the upper bass) - given the amount you're building I don't think you need the sub version.
The LF18G401 is alright, 230 Euros online, but the Colossus 18XS is a bargain at 270 Euros. The main advantage is you're getting 12mm of xmax versus 8.5mm with the RCF. That's almost as much excursion with 4x XS as with 6x LF18, so you can use less drivers and enclosures for the same output.
Edit: Although motor force is weaker on the Fane, personally I think this has a beneficial effect on the overall experience. More physical amounts of air being moved for the same dB level = more trouser-flapping vibrations. That may be why they recommend it for scoops.
The difference between B&C and Fane specs is clear now - one is 1w @ 1m measurements, one is 2.83v @ 8ohms, and that does seem to have been reflected in the published response plots.
Grymer: The Fane will be amazing in a Cubo18, there's absolutely no doubt about that. It's got so many good things going for it. No matter how you interpret the measurements, it's very efficient for an 18", especially for such a beefy one.
Cubo18 is more flexible than the sub (smaller and a bit punchier in the upper bass) - given the amount you're building I don't think you need the sub version.
The LF18G401 is alright, 230 Euros online, but the Colossus 18XS is a bargain at 270 Euros. The main advantage is you're getting 12mm of xmax versus 8.5mm with the RCF. That's almost as much excursion with 4x XS as with 6x LF18, so you can use less drivers and enclosures for the same output.
Edit: Although motor force is weaker on the Fane, personally I think this has a beneficial effect on the overall experience. More physical amounts of air being moved for the same dB level = more trouser-flapping vibrations. That may be why they recommend it for scoops.
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Had 18G401 in my hands and played on it. No slouch either, and with more motor force (again) and extremely cultivated behavior at large excursions (10mm will do without distortions, no prob). It might also load the horn part little bit more, gaining 1db in the upper range, or so.
I´d say that while I´m also giving it to the Fane due to the possible 3db more output at lowest bass region and throwsers flapping tricks, and it would overall sound more bass heavy, which is a good thing for this box.
The RCF is just hair from it - propably directly reflecting in the price compared to Fane. Same bargain.
I also do agree on that you´d be better off with better drivers and less boxes. You´ll easily save money on the wood, stuff and work, which you can put into best drivers, for about the same outcome. And once you´ll want to upgrade, you will have a room to do that. While starting with eight, it doesn´t feel very easy to lug around with 16 pieces later on. Starting with four, mighty powerfull, makes it easier.
I´d say that while I´m also giving it to the Fane due to the possible 3db more output at lowest bass region and throwsers flapping tricks, and it would overall sound more bass heavy, which is a good thing for this box.
The RCF is just hair from it - propably directly reflecting in the price compared to Fane. Same bargain.
I also do agree on that you´d be better off with better drivers and less boxes. You´ll easily save money on the wood, stuff and work, which you can put into best drivers, for about the same outcome. And once you´ll want to upgrade, you will have a room to do that. While starting with eight, it doesn´t feel very easy to lug around with 16 pieces later on. Starting with four, mighty powerfull, makes it easier.
Talking of better drivers and less boxes, I think the BMS 18s450 is a real bargain at 299.95 (gbp) - At 327 Euros it's almost 100 Euros more than the RCF but it has mathematical xmax of 12mm, which some manufacturers would specify at 16mm (even Fane and RCF would specify this driver at about 15mm)
http://www.lean-business.co.uk/eshop/bms-18s450-18-1200-watt-speaker-4-vc-95-db-8-ohm-p-2593.html
Plus BL of 26.5, and with 1200w AES power handling you could even squeeze a few tenths of a dB extra on the RCF from power compression savings alone. It all adds up!
Sensitivity is rated low at 95dB but that kind of brings the discussion (about how sensitivity is not so important these days) full circle. That driver in a Cubo would be considerably better than the alternatives suggested so far despite lower sensitivity. It's possible you would need to squeeze a few more watts into it for the same output level, but it would take them happily, and much more overall.
http://www.lean-business.co.uk/eshop/bms-18s450-18-1200-watt-speaker-4-vc-95-db-8-ohm-p-2593.html
Plus BL of 26.5, and with 1200w AES power handling you could even squeeze a few tenths of a dB extra on the RCF from power compression savings alone. It all adds up!
Sensitivity is rated low at 95dB but that kind of brings the discussion (about how sensitivity is not so important these days) full circle. That driver in a Cubo would be considerably better than the alternatives suggested so far despite lower sensitivity. It's possible you would need to squeeze a few more watts into it for the same output level, but it would take them happily, and much more overall.
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This set of speakers will never be pushed to their limits. The reason why I need the better sensitivity is, that the speakers will be used for a 12v system. That is one of the reasons why I'd like the most sensitive driver 🙂 🙂
Here is this years setup. Next year the wagon will be lowered and subs in one stack
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It seems like the sensitivity is about the same (rcf and fane) from what I've understood, but I'm not really sure about the motor stuff. Does strong motors improve the drivers precision?
My friend can get me a nice price on the Fane, so it won't be much more than the original.
Thanks again for your time 🙂
If you're designing a 12v system then you have a completely different set of parameters to consider. imo you can throw most of the standard received wisdom about what makes a good driver out the window if you're running 12v, especially for subs.
Most expensive drivers are tailored around being able to take as much input as possible before distorting, so you actually want something that doesn't take much input before it starts to be stretched to it's limits.
What's the design exactly? Two bandpass horns and two bass reflex?
For this sort of setup, what you want ideally, is as many drivers as you can justify using, with as much xmax as possible, but optimally you want to try and get them to move as much air as possible with as little watts input as possible.
So something like the FaitalPro 18FH500 is a good option. It has 9.25mm of xmax, and you can get it to reach 7.5mm of that with 400w in an 80 litre vented enclosure, with the excursion peak focused between 50 and 70Hz.
In the exact same enclosure, a more powerful woofer like the RCF LF18X400 with a stronger motor (25.6 BL) only moves 4.6mm (and it weighs like two or three times as much as the 18FH500).
It's said by some that a strong motor improves precision, but I think it's more accurate to say it improves the control of the cone. Better cone control means more accurate midbass and lower mids, because the cone is physically vibrating less, and that vibration introduces intermodular distortion. When you're running at lower power though, and your aim is to squeeze as much oomph out of the system as you possibly can, then a little less cone control can be beneficial, perceived as 'fuller' bass, with more air physically being ejected from the speaker.
When you're up close to the system with a small-medium crowd, as people often are with 12v systems like yours, having that extra air pumping from the speakers is a definite plus point, and it'll bring the system much closer to feeling like a full size rig.
I guess redesigning the enclosures is off the cards now, but what I'd recommend is buy a couple of low motor strength high efficiency 18" woofers like the Faitals, and try them in the reflex boxes, but also just in case, give them a shot in the bandpass horns and see how they stack up to what you have right now. It might be that four drivers like that is what the system needs, and it'll bring the total system cost and weight down considerably (18fh500 is 4.6kg)
Or a very favourable budget option, the Beyma SM-118/N, will do a similar job to the Faitals Beyma :: Beyma SM118/N PS138.64 IN STOCK (20 Aug 2017)
Lots of air moved with minimal watts input. The Faital 18FH500 are still best for that though, and they model well in tapped horn and hybrid horn designs which really tax them quickly.
An 18FH500 in a THAM18 reaches 9.25mm of excursion at about 100-150w of input, with something like 105-107dB/w@1m. A couple of them set up on a trolley, or even 4 of them, and that would be a seriously high impact 12v system on ~500w RMS.
Most expensive drivers are tailored around being able to take as much input as possible before distorting, so you actually want something that doesn't take much input before it starts to be stretched to it's limits.
What's the design exactly? Two bandpass horns and two bass reflex?
For this sort of setup, what you want ideally, is as many drivers as you can justify using, with as much xmax as possible, but optimally you want to try and get them to move as much air as possible with as little watts input as possible.
So something like the FaitalPro 18FH500 is a good option. It has 9.25mm of xmax, and you can get it to reach 7.5mm of that with 400w in an 80 litre vented enclosure, with the excursion peak focused between 50 and 70Hz.
In the exact same enclosure, a more powerful woofer like the RCF LF18X400 with a stronger motor (25.6 BL) only moves 4.6mm (and it weighs like two or three times as much as the 18FH500).
It's said by some that a strong motor improves precision, but I think it's more accurate to say it improves the control of the cone. Better cone control means more accurate midbass and lower mids, because the cone is physically vibrating less, and that vibration introduces intermodular distortion. When you're running at lower power though, and your aim is to squeeze as much oomph out of the system as you possibly can, then a little less cone control can be beneficial, perceived as 'fuller' bass, with more air physically being ejected from the speaker.
When you're up close to the system with a small-medium crowd, as people often are with 12v systems like yours, having that extra air pumping from the speakers is a definite plus point, and it'll bring the system much closer to feeling like a full size rig.
I guess redesigning the enclosures is off the cards now, but what I'd recommend is buy a couple of low motor strength high efficiency 18" woofers like the Faitals, and try them in the reflex boxes, but also just in case, give them a shot in the bandpass horns and see how they stack up to what you have right now. It might be that four drivers like that is what the system needs, and it'll bring the total system cost and weight down considerably (18fh500 is 4.6kg)
Or a very favourable budget option, the Beyma SM-118/N, will do a similar job to the Faitals Beyma :: Beyma SM118/N PS138.64 IN STOCK (20 Aug 2017)
Lots of air moved with minimal watts input. The Faital 18FH500 are still best for that though, and they model well in tapped horn and hybrid horn designs which really tax them quickly.
An 18FH500 in a THAM18 reaches 9.25mm of excursion at about 100-150w of input, with something like 105-107dB/w@1m. A couple of them set up on a trolley, or even 4 of them, and that would be a seriously high impact 12v system on ~500w RMS.
The 12v system is only for one week of the year, but the subs are mainly built for this event. This years problem was no low bass. I'm using t48's and they straight up sucked. And other people's 12v systems beat mine by a lot. So this year I'm going for the Cubo design, because I can fit it in my car. I also have a few events where I'll do 8 cubos outside of the festival. Will I sacrifice a lot of sensitivity with the RCF g401 (or maybe Fane 18SX) over the new presented Fane driver ?
And 12v systems usually only have a couple of batteries. We have a total of 1250ah @13v and more to come. Along with the batteries we have 500w of solar panels and probably 200w more next year. So don't worry. If something sounds a lot better with a small sacrifice, then I'd rather go for the better sound 😉
And thanks for the new input
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Wow. That changes things a lot.
Generally as Hemi says. All goes out the window. For the sensitivity and efficiency, it gets quite more difficult than before. But one thing is obvious. You need as large cabs and as many cabs as you can afford - space wise.
Look at BH760 horn. It´s two 500W drivers in there, and eight stack of these(16 pieces of 12" drivers) kicks half empty beercups from the benches nearby.
For direct radiating subs, you definitely have to go for most cone area, lightest cones, most compliant suspension, and ballanced motor force, so it´s weaker, resonance driven drivers. I would propably repeat hemis input though. He´s 100% right here.
If space is not much of a concern, I´d jump on horn designs right away. These always get most from the driver, so you rather pay for the wood. And I´d also cut on bottom part of the frequency range as possible. You don´t want to dig 25Hz in very efficient system which size is acceptable.
On the other hand, 50Hz can get you up high with sensitivity and efficiency.
So for recapitulation, action to make: Decide pass band, decide if you want to go direct radiators or horns.
// Edit:
So we got another news.
While cubo is awesome design, it cannot be efficient under 50Hz. Physics dictate. And all those measurement you see, again, are skewed, because they´re voltage driven, not power input driven. Even stupid bassreflex bin would do better under 50Hz then. RCF LF18G401 might give you lets say 1db more at 65-120Hz. Doesn´t add to the needed bass, if you want bass heavy bin. If you have to build a cubo, Fane propably still is better choice.
Generally as Hemi says. All goes out the window. For the sensitivity and efficiency, it gets quite more difficult than before. But one thing is obvious. You need as large cabs and as many cabs as you can afford - space wise.
Look at BH760 horn. It´s two 500W drivers in there, and eight stack of these(16 pieces of 12" drivers) kicks half empty beercups from the benches nearby.
For direct radiating subs, you definitely have to go for most cone area, lightest cones, most compliant suspension, and ballanced motor force, so it´s weaker, resonance driven drivers. I would propably repeat hemis input though. He´s 100% right here.
If space is not much of a concern, I´d jump on horn designs right away. These always get most from the driver, so you rather pay for the wood. And I´d also cut on bottom part of the frequency range as possible. You don´t want to dig 25Hz in very efficient system which size is acceptable.
On the other hand, 50Hz can get you up high with sensitivity and efficiency.
So for recapitulation, action to make: Decide pass band, decide if you want to go direct radiators or horns.
// Edit:
So we got another news.
While cubo is awesome design, it cannot be efficient under 50Hz. Physics dictate. And all those measurement you see, again, are skewed, because they´re voltage driven, not power input driven. Even stupid bassreflex bin would do better under 50Hz then. RCF LF18G401 might give you lets say 1db more at 65-120Hz. Doesn´t add to the needed bass, if you want bass heavy bin. If you have to build a cubo, Fane propably still is better choice.
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I strongly recommend trying to find space for a pair of THAM18's if you're building new bins. They just seem to do exactly what you're looking for with a Faital 18FH500.
The top simulation is with a 3000w amplifier. There are frequencies around 60Hz where they reach 9.25mm with 237.5w per cabinet, but most excitingly there's also a deep trough in the driver excursion at around 40Hz where the cone hardly moves at all, which allows you to carefully EQ it up to as much energy as the drivers are able to physically handle.
137dB at 44Hz would be frankly phenomenal for a two bin 12v handcart stack and there's just no chance you'll get that with the Cubos.
They're rated to take 2400w peak per driver, but 1500w of amp power into each in the low frequencies is probably safe enough, so long as you're careful (use a limiter if possible).
If your festival is 5 days long and you want it to run 24 hours with 500w average going into the subs you'll use about 2/3 of your battery bank.
If sound quality is still your major concern and you're confident in your power supply, then as Crashpc says, high quality reflex enclosures are your best bet. You won't beat them for sound quality (taste and music genre depending), and you could build a pair of double 18's or double 15's that would get you close to where you need in efficiency, but with the added assistance of double the amount of cone area.
The top simulation is with a 3000w amplifier. There are frequencies around 60Hz where they reach 9.25mm with 237.5w per cabinet, but most excitingly there's also a deep trough in the driver excursion at around 40Hz where the cone hardly moves at all, which allows you to carefully EQ it up to as much energy as the drivers are able to physically handle.
137dB at 44Hz would be frankly phenomenal for a two bin 12v handcart stack and there's just no chance you'll get that with the Cubos.
They're rated to take 2400w peak per driver, but 1500w of amp power into each in the low frequencies is probably safe enough, so long as you're careful (use a limiter if possible).
If your festival is 5 days long and you want it to run 24 hours with 500w average going into the subs you'll use about 2/3 of your battery bank.
If sound quality is still your major concern and you're confident in your power supply, then as Crashpc says, high quality reflex enclosures are your best bet. You won't beat them for sound quality (taste and music genre depending), and you could build a pair of double 18's or double 15's that would get you close to where you need in efficiency, but with the added assistance of double the amount of cone area.
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I strongly recommend trying to find space for a pair of THAM18's if you're building new bins. They just seem to do exactly what you're looking for with a Faital 18FH500.
The top simulation is with a 3000w amplifier. There are frequencies around 60Hz where they reach 9.25mm with 237.5w per cabinet, but most excitingly there's also a deep trough in the driver excursion at around 40Hz where the cone hardly moves at all, which allows you to carefully EQ it up to as much energy as the drivers are able to physically handle.
137dB at 44Hz would be frankly phenomenal for a two bin 12v handcart stack and there's just no chance you'll get that with the Cubos.
They're rated to take 2400w peak per driver, but 1500w of amp power into each in the low frequencies is probably safe enough, so long as you're careful (use a limiter if possible).
If your festival is 5 days long and you want it to run 24 hours with 500w average going into the subs you'll use about 2/3 of your battery bank.
Multiple subs increase sensitivity, so you're idea of having only two or four subs will never happen.
If the subs are bigger, then I'll go for 6 instead. I was actually thinking about going for the 4x MHB-4818, but I decided not to since it will limit it's usage to the festival only, and I'd like to do more events then that. I think I'll take a look at the Tham, but if you have different ideas that will work both in and outdoors then please shoot away. I was considering SS15 at one point 🙂
I'd like to have a bit of 41 as the lowest note. Doesn't need to be loud, but just a very small amount will do. I was thinking flat to 45hz
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You're going to put 6 subs and 1350ah of batteries in your car and then carry it around on that handcart?
That'll be louder than most of the stages.
That'll be louder than most of the stages.
Haha. It'll be powered with around 1500watts. in total. With 4 soundgear 4s tops.
And I think you have misunderstood what I tried to say earlier.
In denmark we have an annual festival, where this type of speaker is becoming more and more popular. For this one week I'll be needing a very sensitive set of subwoofers. But for the rest of the year it'll be for rental and some occasional projects
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I think I've made a decision.
I'm building 6 Tham18s loaded with the Fane Colossus Prime 18XS. After loading both this and the FaitalPro 18FH500 up in horn-resp. It seemed like the FaitalPro only did less than 0.5db more from 50hz to 60hz. Other then that the Fane actually performed equally or better (by 0.2db at best).
So taking the much better extension in to consideration, I'll go for the Fane 🙂
If you still have suggestions you are very welcome to post them. I was thinking about 4 1850 horns at one time, but I don't know how well they do indoors for indoor-events 🙂
Thanks for the help.
I'm building 6 Tham18s loaded with the Fane Colossus Prime 18XS. After loading both this and the FaitalPro 18FH500 up in horn-resp. It seemed like the FaitalPro only did less than 0.5db more from 50hz to 60hz. Other then that the Fane actually performed equally or better (by 0.2db at best).
So taking the much better extension in to consideration, I'll go for the Fane 🙂
If you still have suggestions you are very welcome to post them. I was thinking about 4 1850 horns at one time, but I don't know how well they do indoors for indoor-events 🙂
Thanks for the help.
The Colossus Prime walks all over the Faital. Well suited for tapped horns, plus that huge xmax and power handling, should give it an edge of +4dB or more.
Whenever people say '12v' I just assume light weight is going to be a significant part of the brief. Apparently not any more!
Looks like 12v is beating down a path to the mainstream. It just makes sense. Tesla would be proud, Edison must be spinning in his grave, etc.
Whenever people say '12v' I just assume light weight is going to be a significant part of the brief. Apparently not any more!
Looks like 12v is beating down a path to the mainstream. It just makes sense. Tesla would be proud, Edison must be spinning in his grave, etc.
Actually, Edison was the guy, who pushed DC voltage very hardly, while Tesla went with AC. But enen I get some sense for these systems, and I'm even urged to build small one, to be free of some problems. Should start with portable stuff to gain exp. ;-)
Well In 12v systems both technologies are in use. DC from battery to amp. And AC from amp to speaker. And there are loads of other DC components. All lights are DC and so are the phone chargers.
Oh and DC to AC converter for DJ-mixer
Oh yea. I don't know how I got that mixed up. Weren't Tesla's theoretical wireless power networks run on DC?
I know at the moment the bulk of 12v powered systems are using a hodge-podge of AC and DC technology all mixed up, but theoretically when it comes down to it, most electronic devices these days run on DC, and if they don't currently they can be developed in that direction.
When your options are: Generator producing AC going into AC adaptors into DC, (and sometimes then switched up again inside the device, from low power DC to high power DC) or battery producing DC going straight into the device, (or stepped down from a higher voltage rail - 24 or 36v ie), the latter is the clear choice. It's just finding the right components for a system like that isn't easy yet.
Even high powered projectors are starting to run on DC recently which is huge for mobile applications. You can get 1200+ (real) lumen projectors that take a 19v input now, about 90w RMS.
I know at the moment the bulk of 12v powered systems are using a hodge-podge of AC and DC technology all mixed up, but theoretically when it comes down to it, most electronic devices these days run on DC, and if they don't currently they can be developed in that direction.
When your options are: Generator producing AC going into AC adaptors into DC, (and sometimes then switched up again inside the device, from low power DC to high power DC) or battery producing DC going straight into the device, (or stepped down from a higher voltage rail - 24 or 36v ie), the latter is the clear choice. It's just finding the right components for a system like that isn't easy yet.
Even high powered projectors are starting to run on DC recently which is huge for mobile applications. You can get 1200+ (real) lumen projectors that take a 19v input now, about 90w RMS.
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