now you realize that Papa is a Blanket Thief .........
yup
really good systems are pretty much enjoyable with all sorts of recordings
Good questions. I don't know. I think I have a decent pair of speakers. I think there is no end to optimizing the chain. We keep jumping from one component to another.
Hi tinitus
I have a set of plonk LS15i not the best around just the best I could afford at the time.
Certainly not a good as a pair of (similar) Cremonas but not bad either.
I just need time to keep building up the system and next on schedule is a "decent"😀 preamplifier
As in the UK we almost squeeze in little sheds a pair of horns (Just size) is out of the question.
So what would you suggest as speakers.
I probably can spend a couple of Ks .
The DIY option is a bit doggy as I can be very dangerous when let loose near a paint brush.
I have a set of plonk LS15i not the best around just the best I could afford at the time.
Certainly not a good as a pair of (similar) Cremonas but not bad either.
I just need time to keep building up the system and next on schedule is a "decent"😀 preamplifier
As in the UK we almost squeeze in little sheds a pair of horns (Just size) is out of the question.
So what would you suggest as speakers.
I probably can spend a couple of Ks .
The DIY option is a bit doggy as I can be very dangerous when let loose near a paint brush.
hey Bk have you read http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/97043-elsinore-project-thread.html
and
Elsinore Loudspeaker DIY
no paintbrush necessary . you're going to learn how to veneer 🙂
planning my build now .
and don't worry it's only 91 pages / 900 posts 😉
cheers , Woody
Tanks Woody
I will have a proper look at the thing.
I still think that The Polks LS15i are not that baad (but be avvare that product support in the UK is realy poor based on personal experience) would be nice to get same comments from other that have tried them and see.
I share anilva opinion on improving the system loads of fun to be had.
Now on records.
On the bad records thing I am not blaming the records I am just blaming poor over engineered at time live records (the Cult Box Set for example)
I just don’t listen to those anymore although I got few fond memories about it
But is not big deal, as I have not enough time to listen to the original Shanachie Chieftains Bonaparte Retreat and such.
Yes a bit of a bummer if the record reprinted by Island sound a bit dull and I prefer the original scratched and popping one.
Yes having a very analytical system is a double-edged sword but when it all mesh togheter...
IMO
The F5 is “just” very good Doug to make the perfect pizza main point is I am now in the mood for cooking.
The records would be the wine to go with it.
I like proper single grape unmolested wine like Barbera or Dolcetto (beter with proper UK T bone maybe).
Just a mater of personal taste but at least now I know if is corked.
Ripasso and such do not agree with me.
I will have a proper look at the thing.
I still think that The Polks LS15i are not that baad (but be avvare that product support in the UK is realy poor based on personal experience) would be nice to get same comments from other that have tried them and see.
I share anilva opinion on improving the system loads of fun to be had.
Now on records.
On the bad records thing I am not blaming the records I am just blaming poor over engineered at time live records (the Cult Box Set for example)
I just don’t listen to those anymore although I got few fond memories about it
But is not big deal, as I have not enough time to listen to the original Shanachie Chieftains Bonaparte Retreat and such.
Yes a bit of a bummer if the record reprinted by Island sound a bit dull and I prefer the original scratched and popping one.
Yes having a very analytical system is a double-edged sword but when it all mesh togheter...
IMO
The F5 is “just” very good Doug to make the perfect pizza main point is I am now in the mood for cooking.
The records would be the wine to go with it.
I like proper single grape unmolested wine like Barbera or Dolcetto (beter with proper UK T bone maybe).
Just a mater of personal taste but at least now I know if is corked.
Ripasso and such do not agree with me.
if only you could write it correct, and it would be easier to find
it is not LS15i but LSi15, yes ?
from looking, they ought to work
but looking at FR graph, and from what you have said, I would try a bit more attenuation on tweeter
Polks... and most commercial speakers are made to be bright on the top, generally that sells better and sounds "better" in ur midfi showroom...
But you can do far better than Polks, in a similar sized cabinet... many designs and projects floating about here... the key is to start with high quality and reasonably efficient/sensitive drivers that also have an inherently "good" response curve... after that ur into another search for the "holy grail"...
Fwiw, you might consider a line source speaker - IF you find a ready source of wide range and small drivers at a *cheap* price... since you can get low distortion, highish sensitivity and a big sound in a relatively small footprint, which fits ur needs and the needs of an F5...
_-_-bear
But you can do far better than Polks, in a similar sized cabinet... many designs and projects floating about here... the key is to start with high quality and reasonably efficient/sensitive drivers that also have an inherently "good" response curve... after that ur into another search for the "holy grail"...
Fwiw, you might consider a line source speaker - IF you find a ready source of wide range and small drivers at a *cheap* price... since you can get low distortion, highish sensitivity and a big sound in a relatively small footprint, which fits ur needs and the needs of an F5...
_-_-bear
Tinitus
My apologies yes LSi15.
Was pondering the atenuation bit and asked Polk for SCH of the cross over
Polk refuse to give me any information eventualy I will have to open them up and see.
Tanks Bear
Yes make sense
My apologies yes LSi15.
Was pondering the atenuation bit and asked Polk for SCH of the cross over
Polk refuse to give me any information eventualy I will have to open them up and see.
Tanks Bear
Yes make sense
Hi all
Anybody tryied useing a stepped rectifier in there F5 power supply?
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power-supplies/161727-3-stage-stepped-rectifier-theory.html
I havnt tried it yet, but suposedly it reduces switching nosie quite a lot.
Listening impressions if so?
Anybody tryied useing a stepped rectifier in there F5 power supply?
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power-supplies/161727-3-stage-stepped-rectifier-theory.html
I havnt tried it yet, but suposedly it reduces switching nosie quite a lot.
Listening impressions if so?
I looked at the idea... I suspect but do not know for sure that one is trading one sort of switching transient for another... maybe good, maybe not.
I like soft recovery rectifiers... Ymmv.
_-_-bear
I like soft recovery rectifiers... Ymmv.
_-_-bear
Just a quick update.
I have tried the same set up as before but with the 2 Channels on the same heat sink.
As the constraint in power output is mostly caused by the thermal capacity of the heat sinks (about 200 / 230 W in my case ) I have reduced the Bias current to 2.4 A quadrant
1.2 A on each mosfet (8 total on heath sink) rail voltagge is also down a bit to 25 V.
Listening levels where a bit more realistic than before peack at about 6 V (plenty for the Polk to do their magic and extend the sound stage well over the size of the walls)
I have used the same tracks as before especialy my favorite of the momet Chieftans
Bonaparte retreat.
The performance of the F5 is still top class but I have noticed a lack of detail and a bit less speed on attack with the below spec (1.2A).
I was wondering if others may have tried different bias currents / hieger voltages and if pheraps they had the same impresion?
As I only had one of the 2 channell monoblocks ready it wont be fair to say much about By amping the Polks beter (less booming) Bass was my first impression but more of that when the other half of the F5 is ready
Which is the way to go?
More sinks (litle fan at low speed should do and summer is over in the UK )
or a sigle mosfet on each quadrant run at the higer Bias/ Voltagge
I have tried the same set up as before but with the 2 Channels on the same heat sink.
As the constraint in power output is mostly caused by the thermal capacity of the heat sinks (about 200 / 230 W in my case ) I have reduced the Bias current to 2.4 A quadrant
1.2 A on each mosfet (8 total on heath sink) rail voltagge is also down a bit to 25 V.
Listening levels where a bit more realistic than before peack at about 6 V (plenty for the Polk to do their magic and extend the sound stage well over the size of the walls)
I have used the same tracks as before especialy my favorite of the momet Chieftans
Bonaparte retreat.
The performance of the F5 is still top class but I have noticed a lack of detail and a bit less speed on attack with the below spec (1.2A).
I was wondering if others may have tried different bias currents / hieger voltages and if pheraps they had the same impresion?
As I only had one of the 2 channell monoblocks ready it wont be fair to say much about By amping the Polks beter (less booming) Bass was my first impression but more of that when the other half of the F5 is ready
Which is the way to go?
More sinks (litle fan at low speed should do and summer is over in the UK )
or a sigle mosfet on each quadrant run at the higer Bias/ Voltagge
If you have a scope put it on the output of the amps while the speakers are on and notice if you are clipping on peaks?
To determine the clip point you'd merely have to put the scope on DC and touch the rails, the point that the scope moves to is "peak". After that you can put the scope back on AC if you wish (assuming a centered trace to start with) and watch.
If you are clipping then you will get somewhat different sound depending on bias point, and lower bias point is closer to class B, so there is more total swing available, slightly more headroom...
But having said that, the amp seems sonically sensitive to almost everything you do, including resistor choice, so there may not be one single "F5" at all - we all may be listening to a completely different amp!! 😀
_-_-bear
PS. the Polks and similar lowish sensitivity speakers are candidates for "X" F5s or bridged F5s... much more power available into 8 ohms...
To determine the clip point you'd merely have to put the scope on DC and touch the rails, the point that the scope moves to is "peak". After that you can put the scope back on AC if you wish (assuming a centered trace to start with) and watch.
If you are clipping then you will get somewhat different sound depending on bias point, and lower bias point is closer to class B, so there is more total swing available, slightly more headroom...
But having said that, the amp seems sonically sensitive to almost everything you do, including resistor choice, so there may not be one single "F5" at all - we all may be listening to a completely different amp!! 😀
_-_-bear
PS. the Polks and similar lowish sensitivity speakers are candidates for "X" F5s or bridged F5s... much more power available into 8 ohms...
Last edited:
Tanks Bear
I realy apreciate your imput and I am working on the same line you suggested.
I have taken a quick mesurament with a cheap and nasty USB scope
and had same results on cheap and nasty normal scope.
The F5 is connected to a pair of Gale Monitor Gold (my near field loft monitors)
Those are 4 homs speakers as the Polks.
I have pushed the F5 up to 20 V peack on a 1Khz sine and from what I can see is not clipping.
I believe Papa said the F5 will go at about 2 volts to the rails before clipping.
I am quite nutral in the camp of mesurament against listening and think that both are quite valuable.
I was Just wandering what the consensus is in "pure listening" as Papa opinion is quite clear>Quote (as I remember so don't shoot)
They sound beter at Hieger Voltagge Biass
I realy apreciate your imput and I am working on the same line you suggested.
I have taken a quick mesurament with a cheap and nasty USB scope
and had same results on cheap and nasty normal scope.
The F5 is connected to a pair of Gale Monitor Gold (my near field loft monitors)
Those are 4 homs speakers as the Polks.
I have pushed the F5 up to 20 V peack on a 1Khz sine and from what I can see is not clipping.
I believe Papa said the F5 will go at about 2 volts to the rails before clipping.
I am quite nutral in the camp of mesurament against listening and think that both are quite valuable.
I was Just wandering what the consensus is in "pure listening" as Papa opinion is quite clear>Quote (as I remember so don't shoot)
They sound beter at Hieger Voltagge Biass
Attachments
Tanks Bear
Ok I supose I could try that.
but is a bit difficoult to see musick signal clipping unless the output get to about 2 V from the rails.
As real listening goes I think that with the knob set at neigbours and Her out and me having a party say 12 maybe 14 V peacks IMO I am still in a preaty clip free area.
Same maths
Which is most probably wrong so please ceck me out
W = VXV/R 14X14/4=49
I = W/V=3.5
As bias is set at 2.4 and current to speakers is 2 times Bias I am still safe from class B not that I could distinguish any difference in class B at that level
Ok I supose I could try that.
but is a bit difficoult to see musick signal clipping unless the output get to about 2 V from the rails.
As real listening goes I think that with the knob set at neigbours and Her out and me having a party say 12 maybe 14 V peacks IMO I am still in a preaty clip free area.
Same maths
Which is most probably wrong so please ceck me out
W = VXV/R 14X14/4=49
I = W/V=3.5
As bias is set at 2.4 and current to speakers is 2 times Bias I am still safe from class B not that I could distinguish any difference in class B at that level
You only have to note the where the amp's max swing on the scope is.
One can also increase the gain of the vertical input then offset the position and then you will only be looking at the area where peaks occur... 😀
It is sufficient for the most part to watch only one rail, or one rail at a time, if that makes it easier to see the peaks...
Then play at normal listening levels and see where the peaks go.
It's imperfect, but you can swing the timebase around and see what the lows and then the highs are doing.
It's where the peaks are at levels that you actually listen at that counts.
_-_-bear
From my previous listening impression I have tried the same set up with Farchild mosfets
FQA12P20 and FQP19N20. 26 V 2,8 A rails
After 10 hours of listening I can say that I am much happier with the Fairchild
Details and slam are still there dinamics and gain are much beter and the sound melow down a litle bit the Cult track is now enjoiable most of the harshness is gone.
Mind you still not the best record in circulation probably overmastered and compressed just before the cutting stage.
Maybe they had to fit to much stuff on each of the sides.
Could you expound on this a bit more bear , well as far as resistor choices and characteristics...