anivila points out something very important, the front end and recordings must be good in order to really get to the amp's potential.
I'd not consider what I heard with many (maybe all) Marantz or Sony CD sources as being, ummm... let's say "what I would like to hear from a digital source". 😀
Maybe the Technics TT, depending again on what the phono stage actually is and sounds like.
I was seriously impressed by one version of the F5 that I played on my wide range compression driver/horn (first order 300Hz up to rolloff >10kHz.) but I/we found that just about *everything* altered the sound of this seemingly minimalist and simple amp. I have heard basically the identical unit (the same unit with changes to the bias & components) go from dull sounding to etched (not harsh though).
My build is still having to wait for calmer seas around here...
_-_-bear
Maybe the Technics TT, depending again on what the phono stage actually is and sounds like.
I was seriously impressed by one version of the F5 that I played on my wide range compression driver/horn (first order 300Hz up to rolloff >10kHz.) but I/we found that just about *everything* altered the sound of this seemingly minimalist and simple amp. I have heard basically the identical unit (the same unit with changes to the bias & components) go from dull sounding to etched (not harsh though).
My build is still having to wait for calmer seas around here...
_-_-bear
Tanks anilva
Quote >Litle weakness in lows ...
Make me wonder if multiple mosfets and more current may sort this out.
Also wandering if adding same mfarads right next to the power rails (reduce impedence of the suply) helps.
Quote >Litle weakness in lows ...
Make me wonder if multiple mosfets and more current may sort this out.
Also wandering if adding same mfarads right next to the power rails (reduce impedence of the suply) helps.
... just changing components and operating conditions, as Bear said above, will change the sound a lot - using carbon/tantalum/Zfoil resistors as the gain stage (R3,4), 47R stopper resistors is also fairly dramatic - and those cermet trimpots ...
Also, many people forget that the power supply caps directly effect the soud also.
... much to play with and very flexible unit.
For the "standard value" builds using the R3 of 2k2, the thermistor drops to about 2k5 (at about 70*C) in series with it's 2k2 (=4k7), leads to a setting of about 1k2 on the trimpot - hence the majority of the current flows thru this cermet device (over 50%) with about 30% thru the R3 and about 15% thru the thermistor (if my arithmetic is okay!) So changing the type of trimpot makes major change to sound - unfotunately, those Zfoil pots are quite expensive, but there are others.
If your components are similar to the "standard cct", you can reduce the value of the R3,4 to about 1k2 - 1k5 which changes the pot setting to about 2k and the emphasis of the sound is more on the R3 than the pot - it seems to work for me!
My opinion, naturally .......
Incidently, Juma worked out a particularly good version of a Jboz/B1 gain stage to add in front of the basic F5 called the BF862 preamp, I think - the required gain of 2, includes simple shunt regs, and works very well indeed.
Also, many people forget that the power supply caps directly effect the soud also.
... much to play with and very flexible unit.
For the "standard value" builds using the R3 of 2k2, the thermistor drops to about 2k5 (at about 70*C) in series with it's 2k2 (=4k7), leads to a setting of about 1k2 on the trimpot - hence the majority of the current flows thru this cermet device (over 50%) with about 30% thru the R3 and about 15% thru the thermistor (if my arithmetic is okay!) So changing the type of trimpot makes major change to sound - unfotunately, those Zfoil pots are quite expensive, but there are others.
If your components are similar to the "standard cct", you can reduce the value of the R3,4 to about 1k2 - 1k5 which changes the pot setting to about 2k and the emphasis of the sound is more on the R3 than the pot - it seems to work for me!
My opinion, naturally .......
Incidently, Juma worked out a particularly good version of a Jboz/B1 gain stage to add in front of the basic F5 called the BF862 preamp, I think - the required gain of 2, includes simple shunt regs, and works very well indeed.
In the end, your speakers determine your sound
and if want them to sound good, ofcourse you need very good amp 🙂
and if want them to sound good, ofcourse you need very good amp 🙂
Just a comment.
I often see reviews that say this is a "great amp" or this is a "great cd player" or these are "great speakers", but I never see articles about how to divide your budget to make a great system.
Your system is only as good as your weakest link.
It would be nice if Nelson or someone who has owned and built everything wrote an article on putting together an exceptional HiFi rig.
I often see reviews that say this is a "great amp" or this is a "great cd player" or these are "great speakers", but I never see articles about how to divide your budget to make a great system.
Your system is only as good as your weakest link.
It would be nice if Nelson or someone who has owned and built everything wrote an article on putting together an exceptional HiFi rig.
I know. Each one to himself with set of limitations he has including sources, speakers etc. That is the reason, I pre-phased my comments as my personal opinion and in my context. I am not a reviewer.
Mr. Pass has mentioned about types of harmonic distortion each of these amps have in his article on F5 and Aleph J. According to him one has 2nd order and the other 3rd order distortion and hence the sound signature.
Thanks. Will want to try with those components if I can get it.
I think this is very true, having tried different output
devices and different bias/resistor values in the circuit.
I have some versions which sound like "instant coffee in
a microwave oven". This works for some situations and
taste - personally I tend to enjoy slightly more forgiving
amplifiers. They go better with drinks that have umbrellas
in them...
😎
> Your system is only as good as your weakest link.
It is usually the speaker.
> It would be nice if Nelson or someone who has built everything wrote an article on putting together an exceptional HiFi rig.
I am in the process of doing so. But you'll have to wait another 2 years.
And of course unlimited budget, which is perhaps not what you want to hear.
😉
Patrick
It is usually the speaker.
> It would be nice if Nelson or someone who has built everything wrote an article on putting together an exceptional HiFi rig.
I am in the process of doing so. But you'll have to wait another 2 years.
And of course unlimited budget, which is perhaps not what you want to hear.
😉
Patrick
> I tend to enjoy slightly more forgiving amplifiers. They go better with drinks that have umbrellas in them...
Sounds more like the AXJ ?
Patrick
Sounds more like the AXJ ?
Patrick
Well since we are best friends, I am sure you won't mind giving me some of that unlimited-budget gear as a gift.😛
Seriously though, any discussion on this topic would be very valuable.
2 years is not a long time for me. I can wait.
I already have my own thoughts about this topic, but it is good to get the ideas and experiences of others, espescially from people who have built quite a fair bit of stuff.
> I am sure you won't mind giving me some of that unlimited-budget gear as a gift.
In 20 years time when I am too old to listen to audio properly, yes; maybe.
And of course you have to come and fetch it yourself, since I am too old then to ship it for you.
Some 100kg for power amps alone ....
😉
Patrick
In 20 years time when I am too old to listen to audio properly, yes; maybe.
And of course you have to come and fetch it yourself, since I am too old then to ship it for you.
Some 100kg for power amps alone ....
😉
Patrick
Since we both agree the speakers are usually the weakest link in the chain.
I think it would be cool if Nelson went nuts with a few OB speaker articles, starting with the best bang per buck to the ultimate reference design.
On top of that I have been working on OB designs with narrow baffles basically the same as the JAMO R909.
While wide baffles are great they are often impossible to fit and position them into most people's lounge/listening rooms. On top of that they don't look that great either. The exception to this is Troels Gravesen OB 11 which I think looks quite good. I would actually build that design but I literally can't fit them any where in my house.
Nelson if you are listening. Is there any chance you could start up a thread with some ideas and pictures?
This has gone way off topic. Appologies
Maybe and if I had the cash and girlfriend was / was not ...
Start fro the botom up
The best bass I ever heard was from a couple of lowthers 76 fitted straigth troug the living room wall kithen was used as the enclosure.
This in a hold farm house with old farm house walls.
So plan a is sell girlfriend
with the cash from that
Build old farm house around the living room (use auric proportions for perfect sound)
Actualy best room I have ever heard was the library of the vicar in an 15 th century church in Venice
meaning 3 foot internall walls 6 foot external one of the internall wals cover by a floor to celing book shelf with about 3/4000 volumes.
Sound was a bit of a mess as he had about 12 different pair of speakers a few turn tables including a quadrophonic set up which he used to play Dark Side of the Moon and wery litle else.
(not kiding you he had a full system with a reel to reel in the bathroom)
Get the lowthers 76 as they are still in production and then carry on from there.
Actualy do you remember when they did not have magnet on the speakers and they use to have a big coil of wire
so get Lowther to swap the magnet for one of those use a super duper DC suply for the coil and hey 100dB 76 woofer
right next ...
time to wake up
Start fro the botom up
The best bass I ever heard was from a couple of lowthers 76 fitted straigth troug the living room wall kithen was used as the enclosure.
This in a hold farm house with old farm house walls.
So plan a is sell girlfriend
with the cash from that
Build old farm house around the living room (use auric proportions for perfect sound)
Actualy best room I have ever heard was the library of the vicar in an 15 th century church in Venice
meaning 3 foot internall walls 6 foot external one of the internall wals cover by a floor to celing book shelf with about 3/4000 volumes.
Sound was a bit of a mess as he had about 12 different pair of speakers a few turn tables including a quadrophonic set up which he used to play Dark Side of the Moon and wery litle else.
(not kiding you he had a full system with a reel to reel in the bathroom)
Get the lowthers 76 as they are still in production and then carry on from there.
Actualy do you remember when they did not have magnet on the speakers and they use to have a big coil of wire
so get Lowther to swap the magnet for one of those use a super duper DC suply for the coil and hey 100dB 76 woofer
right next ...
time to wake up
Well this is good to hear - at least on this point I am not delusional.
Other points, well...
Now, if you can find a version that sounds like a toy poodle in a microwave...?
<gasp>
Final though, yeah, but one version of the amp hands down sounded like the best ******* amplifier I have ever heard at any time on those same compression drivers and horns. So, in short, I don't give a damn if they work anywhere else in the world or not...
Holy grail level stuff. Of course duplicating that version ----- now that's a horse of a different color now, isn't it?
_-_-bear