Ok ... the chair thing was unexpected, lol. What in the world do you do with the huge gap from a 2" FR to a mini sub? You'd have to play the sub up to 300hz!
I have a front slot loaded pair of Speedsters I could build exterior boxes to slide them into until flush with the wall. But that would screw up the baffle step. Those drivers actually overlap a bit.
But then, aren't car audio speakers made to be nearfield, with great off axis response too? Wouldn't a pair of 5.5" car audio coaxials work perfectly?
I have a front slot loaded pair of Speedsters I could build exterior boxes to slide them into until flush with the wall. But that would screw up the baffle step. Those drivers actually overlap a bit.
But then, aren't car audio speakers made to be nearfield, with great off axis response too? Wouldn't a pair of 5.5" car audio coaxials work perfectly?
Lots and lots of micro stereos and home theater rigs do exactly this, e.g. about half of what Bose sells, or the Harman Kardon SoundSticks, have tiny FR drivers for the left and right channels.
If you DIY a pair of FR pods for (very) near field use, your results will be better, because the SPL requirements will be much lower. EDIT: or just mount your Speedsters in this configuration.
The crossover can be a bit under 300Hz:
Using Tymphany NE65 as an example, I get a -3dB of 180Hz in a 1 litre pod. That's pretty good for a driver that is also a tweeter.
Calculate Closed Enclosure (choose Qtc)
Note that there are several other 2" that seem to be just as good. I mention the NE65 just cos I have a pair myself.
I use a miniDSP. With one of those (or an equivalent), you can put the crossover point wherever you like. No "huge gap".
"Wouldn't a pair of 5.5" car audio coaxials work perfectly?"
Probably.
In the past I've used small bookshelf speakers for late night listening. I'd just lie on my back, with the speakers positioned on the floor, like oversized headphones.
With your Speedsters, or any other small speakers, you could try doing exactly this.
1) See if you like it.
2) Note how low the SPL requirements are - listen at what subjectively seems like a moderately loud level, then walk a few metres away and see how loud it actually is.
Last edited by a moderator:
I agree. I want to see that bus too.To heck with the speakers for a moment Flaxxer, let’s see pics of the bus.
All will work out later.
We all know that owning something like that is super cool and in the nerdy world, even cooler than owning a Ferrari. Just want to see that it is for real and not just a school boy bragging about something he doesn't have
[emoji6]
I think you'll find that making a crossover is hard and expensive. I present 2 alternatives: 1. F.A.S.T system consisting of a full range and woofer, xo at 200-300Hz. Some Pioneer decks allows you to to biamp with a digital crossover. You hook the front to your full range and then rear speaker output to your bass. In the menu you adjust the crossover frequency freely. Very easy and quick setup. Plug and play really, and the Pioneer comes with settings for delay if the speaker distances vary. A 15band equalizer on top is icing on the cake. Such a Pioneer is often in the 3-400usd range atleast in Norway. Should be cheaper in the States..
2. Go with a coax with built in crossover. It's the quickest solution and will play much louder and deeper than a full range without crossover. Go with a 3/4 inch tweeter or smaller for good disperson, the larger ones is often very directional. With a coax it's often possible to run a couple of wires to the tweeter from the deck, and with a Pioneer deck you can DSP the sound perfectly bypassing the crappy crossover that came with the coax driver. Usally you can play much louder because of the 3. or 4. order crossover in the built in DSP. So the tweeter is more shielded from deeper tones. You can play very loud with a high sensitivity tweeter this way. Get a coax with atleast 87+db sensitivity since the Pioneer integrated amplifier is only 30 -50Watts. This solution won't tax your car battery as much either
2. Go with a coax with built in crossover. It's the quickest solution and will play much louder and deeper than a full range without crossover. Go with a 3/4 inch tweeter or smaller for good disperson, the larger ones is often very directional. With a coax it's often possible to run a couple of wires to the tweeter from the deck, and with a Pioneer deck you can DSP the sound perfectly bypassing the crappy crossover that came with the coax driver. Usally you can play much louder because of the 3. or 4. order crossover in the built in DSP. So the tweeter is more shielded from deeper tones. You can play very loud with a high sensitivity tweeter this way. Get a coax with atleast 87+db sensitivity since the Pioneer integrated amplifier is only 30 -50Watts. This solution won't tax your car battery as much either
A while ago, I was searching for a high-fidelity desktop solution. I wanted 40Hz-20kHz from a pair of small-to-medium-sized (for a desk) speakers.
After a lot of looking around, I went for a pair of Kef HTS3001SE eggs. They have a 4.5" cone, and are coaxial. I blocked the port and applied some EQ to get the bass where I wanted - search "Linkwitz Transform" for more info.
The eggs themselves are small enough to sit on a desk, and I can play dubstep (with strong LF content) at useful SPLs.
I did try adding a subwoofer, but found that having a LF source under the desk sounded "wrong", even though the graphs looked fine. I suspect phase and/or level differences between my ears from having the sub in a weird/confined location.
A couple of 3" drivers can't move enough air to hit 40Hz with useful SPL, IMO, so I'd recommend using a medium-sized coaxial, sealed boxes, and some EQ. I wanted something quick and easy, so the Kef speakers fit the bill nicely.
Chris
After a lot of looking around, I went for a pair of Kef HTS3001SE eggs. They have a 4.5" cone, and are coaxial. I blocked the port and applied some EQ to get the bass where I wanted - search "Linkwitz Transform" for more info.
The eggs themselves are small enough to sit on a desk, and I can play dubstep (with strong LF content) at useful SPLs.
I did try adding a subwoofer, but found that having a LF source under the desk sounded "wrong", even though the graphs looked fine. I suspect phase and/or level differences between my ears from having the sub in a weird/confined location.
A couple of 3" drivers can't move enough air to hit 40Hz with useful SPL, IMO, so I'd recommend using a medium-sized coaxial, sealed boxes, and some EQ. I wanted something quick and easy, so the Kef speakers fit the bill nicely.
Chris
I have Kef LSX’s on my desk right now and would recommend them for your setup, except that it seems you’re interested in a custom DIY solution. And why not!
Kef also makes in-wall coaxials based on the LS-50. Since driver is the same, the big difference between the LS-50 and the lower end Q and R series is the cabinets and crossovers. I’ve toyed around with the idea of trying the in-walls, but replacing the stock crossover with an active crossover. But I haven’t done it because I know I would need measurement equipment and a lot of fine-tuning to make it sound good.
I’m not suggesting you do that. But I am wondering if an active crossover (miniDSP or the Pass active Biamp), microphone and measurement software would be the best way to get great sound out of your unique situation.
Kef also makes in-wall coaxials based on the LS-50. Since driver is the same, the big difference between the LS-50 and the lower end Q and R series is the cabinets and crossovers. I’ve toyed around with the idea of trying the in-walls, but replacing the stock crossover with an active crossover. But I haven’t done it because I know I would need measurement equipment and a lot of fine-tuning to make it sound good.
I’m not suggesting you do that. But I am wondering if an active crossover (miniDSP or the Pass active Biamp), microphone and measurement software would be the best way to get great sound out of your unique situation.
A sardonic comment...
Original poster said, of potential noise from his speakers: "The neighbors would not like me."
You live on a property where zoning (or lack thereof) permits you to use an old bus as an outbuilding, and you are worried about what your neighbors think?
Actual relevant (?) comment: if you sub must go up to 300 Hz, if you can get it within about 15" of the mains and optionally use delay, you can achieve perfect integration. My Yorkville U15 have a crossover from the "sub" (15" woofer) to the wave guide at 300 Hz. In this speaker's case, the crossover is decided by optimal beam width, to maintain the designed 60 degree directivity.
Original poster said, of potential noise from his speakers: "The neighbors would not like me."
You live on a property where zoning (or lack thereof) permits you to use an old bus as an outbuilding, and you are worried about what your neighbors think?
Actual relevant (?) comment: if you sub must go up to 300 Hz, if you can get it within about 15" of the mains and optionally use delay, you can achieve perfect integration. My Yorkville U15 have a crossover from the "sub" (15" woofer) to the wave guide at 300 Hz. In this speaker's case, the crossover is decided by optimal beam width, to maintain the designed 60 degree directivity.
Last edited:
That's exactly what I did with a pair of 6.5" coax from TB (w6-2313).
One minor issue is that the off axis response isn't as flat as one might like (something somewhat common with coax drivers).
But they sound very coherent in practice and I listen very close (less than 1m)
OK, i did some geometric exploration and it is not as bad as i thot.
I still hate the idea of an XO smack where they are the easiest to detect.
dave