Yes, Dimitris.... better to stop construction and have pleasure listening
As the best part, the real pleasant part is listening to it.
regards,
Carlos
As the best part, the real pleasant part is listening to it.
regards,
Carlos
Re: PCB solded
Hi Uwe !
Looks nice and nearly finished ! I am waiting for your first impressions... 🙂
Mike
dx.master said:Hello MikeB and PMA,
i have just finished the soldering of four PCB sysasym V5-2.
They look very nice and now i must drill the heatsinks and assembling the PCB on the heatsinks.
Soon i can also start listening !
Hi Uwe !
Looks nice and nearly finished ! I am waiting for your first impressions... 🙂
Mike
This amplifier looks very intresting. I went to the dx.master website and saw that there is a high-power version.
What is the power of this amp. please, how many watts RMS per channel for:
The symasym high power version
and the symasym 5.2 version.
Thanks
What is the power of this amp. please, how many watts RMS per channel for:
The symasym high power version
and the symasym 5.2 version.
Thanks
DX Master, pretty work...your picture is wonderfull too
Congratulations,,,do not forget to make your analisis when ready to do that.
Every friend information will be interesting to listen.
regards,
Carlos
Congratulations,,,do not forget to make your analisis when ready to do that.
Every friend information will be interesting to listen.
regards,
Carlos
PierreG said:
Hi PierreG !
The highpower version is ~120watts into 8 ohm, 200watts into 4 ohm,
the symasym5_2 has ~64watts into 8 ohm, ~120watts into 4 ohm, but never measured.
I can't recommend the highpower version, it is definitely inferior in quality and has never been built. The symasm5_2 is tested and definitely works reliable !
Mike
dtrif-
"I listened to 30 minutes at party level and if you put your hand on the heatsinks it was very difficult to know if this amp had even one electron pass through his transistors. You could perhaps think that it was never turned on! Then I left him silent, but switched on, for 1.5 hours. Heatsinks were very very lightly warm, because of the Iq, which is 110 mA. Speakers are 8 Ohms, PSU Voltage +-32.7V.
"
Hi there buddy, if you really want to get an idea how this amp
performs thermodynamically, feed it with a squarewave at
half output swing of output level into spk load value, dont leave it for too long though, it might get too hot
i think for a class-b amp your heatsinks would be fine, but if you
have a problem you should ask mikeb after all is his design and
he has done an excellent job, i think.
cheers
"I listened to 30 minutes at party level and if you put your hand on the heatsinks it was very difficult to know if this amp had even one electron pass through his transistors. You could perhaps think that it was never turned on! Then I left him silent, but switched on, for 1.5 hours. Heatsinks were very very lightly warm, because of the Iq, which is 110 mA. Speakers are 8 Ohms, PSU Voltage +-32.7V.
"
Hi there buddy, if you really want to get an idea how this amp
performs thermodynamically, feed it with a squarewave at
half output swing of output level into spk load value, dont leave it for too long though, it might get too hot
i think for a class-b amp your heatsinks would be fine, but if you
have a problem you should ask mikeb after all is his design and
he has done an excellent job, i think.
cheers
I did it...the power version...but really do not do that one
It sounds worst..... difference is great related the normal voltage.
I do not suggest you to do higher power version.
Not "guaranteed" related sound quality.
regards,
Carlos
It sounds worst..... difference is great related the normal voltage.
I do not suggest you to do higher power version.
Not "guaranteed" related sound quality.
regards,
Carlos
Hey thanks for the fast answers Carlos and Mike.
Too bad for the power version. I needed 200W at 4 ohm for biamping mes Magnepan MG3.5R. I would have used it for the bass.
Too bad for the power version. I needed 200W at 4 ohm for biamping mes Magnepan MG3.5R. I would have used it for the bass.
PMA ! You finished building symasym , and compare it with correction amp . Can you add degeneration resistors for sysmasym and have a comparerision a gain . 🙂
For bass no problems to increase voltage and re-adjust bias
It will produce easy those 200 watts you need.... use 47 volts and it may be good for you.
Reduce the bias adjustment, till you have 100 miliamps...check all transistors VBE voltages to see if they are normal...conducting...with more than 590 milivolts, and some of them can reach 640 milivolts...check the off set....and fire on it.... of course, you need place, for guarantee, transistors enougth to dissipate 400 watts....2 pairs of 200 watts, 4 pair of 100 watts and 3 pair of 150 watts dissipation...all them that can hold, at least 100 volts.... 150 Volts is better.... and those transistors must have the capacity to hold 8 amperes...not each one....but adding all current capabilities, all together.....and you will be happy with the bass.
But if your speaker is Electrostátic...hehe.... better to forget to find amplifiers to them.....use some hard class A to them.. with transistors that can hold enormous colector to emitter voltage, use those circuits to protect against spikes, use series protective resistors, input isolation transformers.... pray to God to have protection..... to some Saint that can Protect you against difficult connections....or even better...ahahahaha...give a shot in your electrostátics(If your unit is electrostátic), because it will be a never ending source or problems in your live...good sound...but many problems also.
When i increase voltage, the dinamics gone..compression appeared, treble turns strange, voices turn a little mufled but bass do not change too much...so...may be good for you....
Reading this forum..... returning to the earlier pages, you will see Michael's schematic, to use more power....use this one if you want it.
Only for bass!....to other frequencies, when more voltage is applied...reason why i do not know and really i have no interest to understand, as i already have other unit to produce the power i want for bass (Class D)... and really.... it is terrible, but to talk true......argh!...the beautifull Symassym turned a very common amplifier when modified to more power, using more voltage and more output units...capacitances maybe...do not know....but it turns almost the same as zilions units that are beeing waiting for nice trash boxes to receive them.
regards,
Carlos
It will produce easy those 200 watts you need.... use 47 volts and it may be good for you.
Reduce the bias adjustment, till you have 100 miliamps...check all transistors VBE voltages to see if they are normal...conducting...with more than 590 milivolts, and some of them can reach 640 milivolts...check the off set....and fire on it.... of course, you need place, for guarantee, transistors enougth to dissipate 400 watts....2 pairs of 200 watts, 4 pair of 100 watts and 3 pair of 150 watts dissipation...all them that can hold, at least 100 volts.... 150 Volts is better.... and those transistors must have the capacity to hold 8 amperes...not each one....but adding all current capabilities, all together.....and you will be happy with the bass.
But if your speaker is Electrostátic...hehe.... better to forget to find amplifiers to them.....use some hard class A to them.. with transistors that can hold enormous colector to emitter voltage, use those circuits to protect against spikes, use series protective resistors, input isolation transformers.... pray to God to have protection..... to some Saint that can Protect you against difficult connections....or even better...ahahahaha...give a shot in your electrostátics(If your unit is electrostátic), because it will be a never ending source or problems in your live...good sound...but many problems also.
When i increase voltage, the dinamics gone..compression appeared, treble turns strange, voices turn a little mufled but bass do not change too much...so...may be good for you....
Reading this forum..... returning to the earlier pages, you will see Michael's schematic, to use more power....use this one if you want it.
Only for bass!....to other frequencies, when more voltage is applied...reason why i do not know and really i have no interest to understand, as i already have other unit to produce the power i want for bass (Class D)... and really.... it is terrible, but to talk true......argh!...the beautifull Symassym turned a very common amplifier when modified to more power, using more voltage and more output units...capacitances maybe...do not know....but it turns almost the same as zilions units that are beeing waiting for nice trash boxes to receive them.
regards,
Carlos
Well, at least the unit i made...if i had sent it into the Garbage can...i am afraid
That the garbage can could trown it back over me....as my power unit sounded very bad.
The Garbage can felt offended.
Interesting...the normal voltage Symassym is wonderfull!
But increasing voltage and currents, naturally the operation point changed.... and all things turns a mess.
That was my experience with it.... with bigger power unit, maybe i did it bad...you can try and help us informing your results, and also the changes you made...will be very nice!
regards,
Carlos
That the garbage can could trown it back over me....as my power unit sounded very bad.
The Garbage can felt offended.
Interesting...the normal voltage Symassym is wonderfull!
But increasing voltage and currents, naturally the operation point changed.... and all things turns a mess.
That was my experience with it.... with bigger power unit, maybe i did it bad...you can try and help us informing your results, and also the changes you made...will be very nice!
regards,
Carlos
thanh said:
No. My work on Symasym was completed.
I spend much time with non-profit work for DIY community. And I have also regular job and my own business, so I am pretty busy. For this reason it is upon me to make a choice what to do and what not to do.
But you can do it (emitter degeneration) and let us know the result.
Carlos,
the high power Symasym, that might be a challenge. I assume that the VAS circuitry should be modified, as right now it is just at the nice limit for 1 pair of output devices and for the supply voltage used.
the high power Symasym, that might be a challenge. I assume that the VAS circuitry should be modified, as right now it is just at the nice limit for 1 pair of output devices and for the supply voltage used.
Yes, a high power version of the symasym is a challenge, i already tried and failed...
The choosen bias and values just fit perfect for 36v supply, for higher voltages it would need higher bias in the vas, but this would overheat the to92 devices. Also my way of feedbackcompensation is bias dependent...
So i tried tripledarlington, but after having it stable again the quality was gone... For higher power a complete redesign seems necessary.
I had stopped that because the ~120watts into 4 ohms are way enough for me, enough to kill my speakers and my ears. 😀
You have to be careful with increasing the voltage, the mpsa18/bc550c have a max rating of 45v, and the bc546 in the ccs already runs hot.
Mike
The choosen bias and values just fit perfect for 36v supply, for higher voltages it would need higher bias in the vas, but this would overheat the to92 devices. Also my way of feedbackcompensation is bias dependent...
So i tried tripledarlington, but after having it stable again the quality was gone... For higher power a complete redesign seems necessary.
I had stopped that because the ~120watts into 4 ohms are way enough for me, enough to kill my speakers and my ears. 😀
You have to be careful with increasing the voltage, the mpsa18/bc550c have a max rating of 45v, and the bc546 in the ccs already runs hot.
Mike
So, as everyone agreed, let's let Symassym the way it is.
The one that decided to make it bigger, will have the need to adapt it to be good enougth.
Not recomended...as may be a problem.
But everyone is free to try, and please, having sucess, post it and tell us how it sounded.
I want a class D that Bittner already started...that one i wanted...ahhahahaha!...to make good money here!.... with Bittner permission, of course.
But i think he is unable...ahahaha!...have not capacity..hehe.... no conditions....no energy....no perseverance....not courage....not interest...hummm, maybe selfish...hummmm, maybe very bad guy...hummm, he will say that have not time....hummm....will be hidden under the bed.....hummmm, will have not motivation, as others will have money and he will have work, even if we promiss to send some Euros....hummmmmm...will say that is sick..... engaged to married, hard work, will run...yeah!...will run.
No problems...i am having enormous respect to him...even beeing this way...and i do not to talk bad things about my friend...i never do that..ahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
kidding, joking....no problem to apologise.....hey moderators, this is old friends kidding one each other...not real offenses!
In the reality guys... i am challenging my old friend, but already knowing that he is a little sick and always busy...the company bellongs to him....he has to show energy and work hard..if not...other guys will be sleeping there, and watching television and he will be paying all those guys!....not nice that...really not nice to him...so...he will dennie...but i am making my own game...my own interest is clear and posted.
regards,
Carlos
The one that decided to make it bigger, will have the need to adapt it to be good enougth.
Not recomended...as may be a problem.
But everyone is free to try, and please, having sucess, post it and tell us how it sounded.
I want a class D that Bittner already started...that one i wanted...ahhahahaha!...to make good money here!.... with Bittner permission, of course.
But i think he is unable...ahahaha!...have not capacity..hehe.... no conditions....no energy....no perseverance....not courage....not interest...hummm, maybe selfish...hummmm, maybe very bad guy...hummm, he will say that have not time....hummm....will be hidden under the bed.....hummmm, will have not motivation, as others will have money and he will have work, even if we promiss to send some Euros....hummmmmm...will say that is sick..... engaged to married, hard work, will run...yeah!...will run.
No problems...i am having enormous respect to him...even beeing this way...and i do not to talk bad things about my friend...i never do that..ahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
kidding, joking....no problem to apologise.....hey moderators, this is old friends kidding one each other...not real offenses!
In the reality guys... i am challenging my old friend, but already knowing that he is a little sick and always busy...the company bellongs to him....he has to show energy and work hard..if not...other guys will be sleeping there, and watching television and he will be paying all those guys!....not nice that...really not nice to him...so...he will dennie...but i am making my own game...my own interest is clear and posted.
regards,
Carlos
Re: So, as everyone agreed, let's let Symassym the way it is.
Ha ! I am immune against this way of motivation...
Mike
destroyer X said:
Ha ! I am immune against this way of motivation...
Mike
Not because better than Symassym, Aksa, Gem and others great units
But because cheap...small transistors and 2 FETs in the output filtering (conversion digital to analogue and carrier frequency suppressing)
This is something is possible to sell here....to compete with LM3875 in price, and maybe can win in power and bass.
So...something adequated.
But as he already told me....immunized....grumpf...grrrrrr!
no problem....Kráu-
regards,
Carlos
But because cheap...small transistors and 2 FETs in the output filtering (conversion digital to analogue and carrier frequency suppressing)
This is something is possible to sell here....to compete with LM3875 in price, and maybe can win in power and bass.
So...something adequated.
But as he already told me....immunized....grumpf...grrrrrr!
no problem....Kráu-
regards,
Carlos
Attachments
I would like to mention final sentences from Michael's page:
------
Authorized for use by any private hobbyist, commercial use / profit unauthorized !
Have fun !
--------
This is how it should work in a cultivated world ... 😉
------
Authorized for use by any private hobbyist, commercial use / profit unauthorized !
Have fun !
--------
This is how it should work in a cultivated world ... 😉
Aaaah!....this rule is not applied to me...i am his uncle!
This not authorized, in my case, will be substituted.
"Profitable, by legal agreement with my dear uncle Big Fat Charlie".
But this is not the problem, really is not the problem, he will not do...as he do not like Class D, as he is afraid that his own class D had the chance to kick his class AB...ahahahahaha!
Now he is challenged!
regards,
Carlos
This not authorized, in my case, will be substituted.
"Profitable, by legal agreement with my dear uncle Big Fat Charlie".
But this is not the problem, really is not the problem, he will not do...as he do not like Class D, as he is afraid that his own class D had the chance to kick his class AB...ahahahahaha!
Now he is challenged!
regards,
Carlos
Attachments
He cannot live his office, the last time he did.
And was to design Symassym..... when return, Kutz were drunk talking with the computer speakers.
Herman have a dog leaking his face...completelly full of schnapps....herman calling the dog ...my dear...Ich liebe mein klein wunder.
Egon slipping in the office secretary sofá.
Frank having vomit at the WC.
The secretary runned because everybody drunk there.
And popcorn everywhere in the office.
This way is hard!...but i am sure, that in second world war, when his old uncle Charlie was figthing (1000 miles distant from the front)..things was worst for him....do you believe?
regards,
Carlos
And was to design Symassym..... when return, Kutz were drunk talking with the computer speakers.
Herman have a dog leaking his face...completelly full of schnapps....herman calling the dog ...my dear...Ich liebe mein klein wunder.
Egon slipping in the office secretary sofá.
Frank having vomit at the WC.
The secretary runned because everybody drunk there.
And popcorn everywhere in the office.
This way is hard!...but i am sure, that in second world war, when his old uncle Charlie was figthing (1000 miles distant from the front)..things was worst for him....do you believe?
regards,
Carlos
