Exciting new line of fullrange drivers from Feastrex

[Vix]

With the rising fuel costs, it can make sense for someone to sell an SUV, buy a small car, and a pair of Feastrex-es. Then, sit home and enjoy the music. Moreover, it is environmentally friendly.

 

[cdwitmer]

Ye Gods, you guys live on a different planet to me WRT what can be considered an inordinately high ratio of performance-per-£.

All things are relative . . . I recently received an email from one Feastrex representative who had just finished setting up a new listening room for demonstrating Feastrex drivers; my correspondent was enthusing over the fact that people who had come to listen to his Feastrex drivers (which are considerably less expensive than the type III field coil model) claimed that his relatively modestly-priced system was outperforming another high-end audio dealer's system that came with a price tag of close to million dollars (i.e., top-of-the-line Rockport Technologies speakers and other similarly high priced components throughout). Of course the whole idea of fullrange single driver audio is that "less is more" -- one is trying to get away from all that excess -- so in a sense it does not come as a surprise that the above-mentioned million-dollar system should suffer from comparison to a really well implemented Feastrex system, but my point is that in such a context, it is not so incongruous to speak of Feastrex drivers as having an excellent cost vs. performance ratio . . . .

-- Chris

 

[agent.5]

, but my point is that in such a context,

So, you are speaking to men compensating for their small pxxxx.

 

[GM]

Ye Gods, you guys live on a different planet to me WRT what can be considered an inordinately high ratio of performance-per-£.

Well, we do live in a financially tiered society and being wealthy is about the art of conspicuous consumption, so in this respect a price increase was in order to go along with the rapid inflation due to oil, etc. since these costs are just passed on to the consumer. A price reduction during such economic instability implies something has been over inflated during the boom times, ergo an inordinately low ratio of performance-per-£, which can destroy its exclusivity factor.

Of course this is just theory, but those who followed it during the Depression either quickly perished or lost their exclusivity through price reduction and its consequences and eventually perished from being stuck in a 'no man's land' between social (price) tiers as happened to Packard or became an object of derision as Cadillac did because it didn't have the good grace to depart the market while it was still somewhat worthy of its original reputation.

How does this apply (if at all) to the Feastrex? Tough to say since folks get much more emotionally involved/relate with cars than speakers and in this case what do we compare it to determine whether it's perceived performance value is under/over inflated WRT its pricing? Theoretically it would be other wide BW drivers, but I'm not current enough on SOTA 'FR' driver esoterica to have an opinion beyond that I imagine it fares well since getting the last few percent of performance out of anything requires an inordinately higher cost with decreasing percentage. Just ask any racer.

At either price point though, I personally would be comparing them to components that totaled them and here I believe they would have such a poor price/performance ratio to warrant the kind of abuse I've seen heaped on CW over on the HE asylum when he has 'waxed eloquent' about the Feastrex's and its predecessor's?/late competitor's? performance.

GM

 

[cdwitmer]

So, you are speaking to men compensating for their small pxxxx.

Very funny . . . that's one way of putting it. But I'm also speaking to people who have been "vaccinated against smallpxxxx" -- to folks who have both the means and the desire to get maximum performance even if it means spending a lot more to get it. In the realm of "diminishing returns" you get a lot more performance improvement for your money spent on Feastrex speakers than you do on other a lot of other things in audio that one could be spending the same amount of money on.

-- Chris

 

[GM]

.......claimed that his relatively modestly-priced system was outperforming another high-end audio dealer's system that came with a price tag of close to million dollars.........but my point is that in such a context, it is not so incongruous to speak of Feastrex drivers as having an excellent cost vs. performance ratio . . . .

In this context, yes, but so often in high end audio the sum of the parts is much less than the individual components, so from this POV we'll have to agree to disagree.

GM

 

[cdwitmer]

At either price point though, I personally would be comparing them to components that totaled them and here I believe they would have such a poor price/performance ratio to warrant the kind of abuse I've seen heaped on CW over on the HE asylum when he has 'waxed eloquent' about the Feastrex's and its predecessor's?/late competitor's? performance.

GM

In this context, yes, but so often in high end audio the sum of the parts is much less than the individual components, so from this POV we'll have to agree to disagree.

GM

I'm sorry, please remind me again . . . which model(s) of Feastrex driver have you listened to that you're basing the above opinions on? Thx,

-- Chris

 

[GM]

None and will never need to since I have a good enough textbook and/or 'hands on' knowledge of driver/speaker design to know the electro-acoustical-mechanical performance limitations of the various driver design types and the trade-offs required to make them wide BW. Even limited to a narrower BW with LF/super tweeter systems they still wouldn't be a serious contender IMO due to a point source's narrowing power response with increasing frequency.

When only comparing pricing of even the least expensive Feastrex, point source drivers have too many physical limitations compared to some other design types for a truly high performance speaker system.

GM

 

[Zen Mod]

GM and CD ;
now you are both talking about tastes ;

without considering price at all , big mouth is one who try to bring it as absolute truth .

please - yo both know better than fight about things like these ;

price is Japanese ,same as dedication ; for me - doesn't matter what is in question (speaker or any other imaginable product) , paying same amount for dedication/attitude as for quality is completely sane ;

YMMV , but neither of us can say that as absolute truth

 

[GM]

No, I'm 'speaking' the physics of the situation as I understand them for a narrowly defined comparison. My 'tastes' have nothing to do with it per se. As for 'fighting', I didn't realize we were. I assume from your observations that what we have posted loses something in the translation to your native language. Regardless, I don't 'fight' about anything since I refuse to lower myself to their level of ignorance of the subject matter in question, but I will 'defend' my point of view (POV) up to some point depending on my mood.

GM

 

[rjbond3rd]

Originally posted by GM ...a point source's narrowing power response with increasing frequency...

Hi GM, could you explain that to a novice, or point me to something that might explain it? Thanks in advance!

 

[mluckow]

I'm sorry, please remind me again . . . which model(s) of Feastrex driver have you listened to that you're basing the above opinions on? Thx,

-- Chris

None and will never need to since I have a good enough textbook and/or 'hands on' knowledge . . . .

GM

GM,

I don't know how anyone could judge these drivers without ever having heard them.

There are other factors involved in Feastrex drivers that make it impossible to judge them without hearing them. Knowledge of other speakers doesn't apply. For example, the special Japanese washi paper that the cones are made from creates a very unique "organic" sound that I've never heard in any other speakers, and I've heard a few. I felt that the speakers with the D5nf drivers demoed at RMAF last year beat many (perhaps all) the other speakers I heard at RMAF, and many of them cost *way* more than they did. (Some of those other speakers cost up to $60k a pair.) I thought they all sounded fabulous, but when I went back to the Feastrex rooms and listened again, it was like a breath of fresh air. It suddenly occurred to me that the other speakers sounded somewhat "electronic," while the Feastrex speakers sounded more natural, real, and "organic" to me. It's difficult to describe with words; you just have to hear them to know what I'm talking about.

Which brings me back to my point: guessing what they might sound like isn't accurate, especially when it comes to high-end audio sound. Textbook knowledge and knowledge of other speakers just doesn't substitute for ears.

At least imho.

Mike

 

[BTW]

None and will never need to since I have a good enough textbook and/or 'hands on' knowledge of driver/speaker design to know the electro-acoustical-mechanical performance limitations of the various driver design types and the trade-offs required to make them wide BW. Even limited to a narrower BW with LF/super tweeter systems they still wouldn't be a serious contender IMO due to a point source's narrowing power response with increasing frequency.

Hi GM,

IMO from this post can I infer that Fullrangers are not your cup of tea.... Am I right ?

If I am right ... then there is absolutely no need for further discussion on cost vs performance ... simply because it's still not your cup of tea right ?

 

[GM]

Hi GM, could you explain that to a novice, or point me to something that might explain it? Thanks in advance!

Greets!

By definition a point source is one that is small compared to the WLs reproduced, so as the WLs get smaller in diameter with increasing frequency it begins beaming, ergo more of its acoustic power is concentrated over a narrower listening arc.

There's plenty of references, tutorials, polar response plots, etc., scattered around the various forums and the net for both point sources, duplex drivers and various horn types, so have fun Googling!

GM

 

[fred76]

Common ground :

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/hug/messages/12/124549.html

http://www.maxonic-audio.com/p1.png

Different aesthetic/extreme.

 

[GM]

I don't know how anyone could judge these drivers without ever having heard them.

And I don't see how anyone with a passable command of the English language could arrive at such a ridiculous (to me) conclusion from what I wrote. One more time, I made no such judgment since I've never auditioned them and even if I had or eventually are able to do so I no longer consider my hearing good enough to make any subjective judgments about any speaker system beyond our critical hearing BW. Again, my statements/opinions are grounded by the electro-acoustical-mechanical limitations that govern all 'FR' drivers, so unless Feastrex has somehow suspended these physical laws...........

Bottom line, we're talking apples n' oranges, so the rest of your subjective judgments while somewhat enlightening, are irrelevant to what I wrote, though we'll have to agree to disagree with this gross overstatement: 'Knowledge of other speakers doesn't apply' since you don't know what all I've had the fortune to be exposed to, though I do agree that its diaphragm construction probably does set it sonically apart from the rest of the pack just as certain WE/Lansing/Altec ones did in their time.

GM

 

[rjbond3rd]

Originally posted by GM ...ergo more of its acoustic power is concentrated over a narrower listening arc...

Aha, gotcha -- I hadn't heard the term power response before. Alas, there is too much to learn. Thank you!

 

[GM]

IMO from this post can I infer that Fullrangers are not your cup of tea.... Am I right ?

Greets!

No, you can not infer that per se. I mean if you are referring to what I consider a high performance system, then no, I wouldn't consider using a 'FR' driver except in a small enough room that necessitates a near-field listening position. Here, nothing AFAIK can compete with a state of the art (SOTA) 'FR' driver except possibly SOTA headphones.

GM

 

[TerryO]

Hi GM,

IMO from this post can I infer that Fullrangers are not your cup of tea.... Am I right ?

If I am right ... then there is absolutely no need for further discussion on cost vs performance ... simply because it's still not your cup of tea right ?

BTW,

From your post can I infer that you don't know much about Fullrangers?

Actually, I'm almost willing to bet money on it, as obviously you're not aware of the 100's of posts that GM has written on fullrange speakers over the years. There are very few designers in the world that can rival GM's depth of knowledge when it comes to speaker design. I might add that when GM voices an opinion, it's just that... an opinion.
However, opinions are like batting averages, in that we all have one, but some are much higher than others and that might explain why most of us will listen to him and not you.

If I am right...then there is absolutely no need for further input from you until such time as you address your lack of a fundamental understanding of the principles involved.

Sincerely,
TerryO

 

[mluckow]

GM,

I sincerely apologize if I'm misunderstanding you, but aren't you saying that you believe Feastrex drivers have relatively poor price/performance compared to other components that total about the same amount of money?

If so, then maybe we're disagreeing on what "performance" means. In my opinion, Feastrex drivers perform very well compared to other systems I heard at RMAF--even those that cost a lot more--but I mean "performance" in a subjective sense of the word ("beauty is in the eye of the beholder"). Did you mean it in some quantifiable way, e.g., specifications that were derived from electronic or acoustic measurements?

Again, I apologize if I'm misunderstanding you.

Mike