D5nf compared to Fertin
That is a long time ago!
Also the Fertin I had is not the current version.
The only thing I can be sure about is the treble of the Feastrex is better. It has more energy, more like a compression horn driver.
The rest would be difficult to identify as being from the driver or the enclosure as I haven't heard the Feastrex in an open baffle and never played the Fertin in a box. Bass is stronger in the Feastrex, but it's in a tuned box, so not fair. The Fertin was very open, very detailed and threw a big soundstage but it was on the long wall of our old office.
They are both very good.
Sorry that's the best I can do.
Brian
That is a long time ago!
Also the Fertin I had is not the current version.
The only thing I can be sure about is the treble of the Feastrex is better. It has more energy, more like a compression horn driver.
The rest would be difficult to identify as being from the driver or the enclosure as I haven't heard the Feastrex in an open baffle and never played the Fertin in a box. Bass is stronger in the Feastrex, but it's in a tuned box, so not fair. The Fertin was very open, very detailed and threw a big soundstage but it was on the long wall of our old office.
They are both very good.
Sorry that's the best I can do.
Brian
Well, I too have continued to be impressed with the D5nf drivers in the BVR enclosure. However, I'd still like to get some meaningful specifications for the Feastrex enclosure that is referenced... I've yet to see anything that would allow one to build a usable replica with any confidence (unless I've missed it somewhere). Is there a CAD drawing I could get? Brian, any details and/or pics of the 13L enclosures you did?
I'd also like to get more info on the updates to Freddie.... maybe a taller Freddie? I will be trying some other enclosures out over time, but I'm itching to do a more powerful SET amplifier first..... the D5nf never seems to break a sweat with 2-watts. Yes, the can get plenty loud but 2-watts has it's limits and additional headroom certainly can't hurt, especially with material like Sheffield's Drum Record, which is very impressive... much more so than the combined track/drum record CD version. Time to buy a pair of WE-300B I guess and get started.
In any case, make no mistake... these drivers are truly special... I'm still a very happy camper but I want more detail... so it's time to start designing a new phono preamp too..... if I only had more time... and at home (currently in Singapore) so I've got a bit of withdrawl from audio.
Regards, KM
I'd also like to get more info on the updates to Freddie.... maybe a taller Freddie? I will be trying some other enclosures out over time, but I'm itching to do a more powerful SET amplifier first..... the D5nf never seems to break a sweat with 2-watts. Yes, the can get plenty loud but 2-watts has it's limits and additional headroom certainly can't hurt, especially with material like Sheffield's Drum Record, which is very impressive... much more so than the combined track/drum record CD version. Time to buy a pair of WE-300B I guess and get started.
In any case, make no mistake... these drivers are truly special... I'm still a very happy camper but I want more detail... so it's time to start designing a new phono preamp too..... if I only had more time... and at home (currently in Singapore) so I've got a bit of withdrawl from audio.
Regards, KM
Here's a pic.
I'll get the internal dimensions when I return to the shop on Monday.
Actually in Singapore there is quite an active Feastrex community. I'm sure they would be happy to share their cabinet experiences with you. You could contact them through the Singapore Feastrex dealer - William. He posts here sometimes.
I'm also interested to find out what the big boxes have to offer.
Yes extra power won't hurt. Make sure to get 16ohms taps. I find the 300B to be very good together with the D5nf.
regards
Brian
Attachments
Brian, thanks for the very fast reply... the dimensions seem to show a pretty shallow depth, is there a particular reason?
I'd be interested to hear your findings on a 20-ohm output tranny.... who are you using to make them? What output tube(s) are you using with them?
I'm very impressed with the Hashimoto transformer line and have a fairly large collection of power, choke and SET outputs which include their 7-watt, 20-watt and 30-watt single-ended outputs. I also have MQ iron and am currently having Mike build me a custom set of RH-40s with endbells, flying leads sans UL taps.
The 45 amp I'm running now uses the little H-507S (5/7K with 4-8-,16-ohm output and 7-watt rating). To date, these are probably the best shielded trannies/chokes I've used. Their power units are dead quiet, absolutely noiseless.
Thanks for the tip on the SGP community... maybe I'll have a chance to visit the dealer over the weekend. Thanks!
Regards, KM
I'd be interested to hear your findings on a 20-ohm output tranny.... who are you using to make them? What output tube(s) are you using with them?
I'm very impressed with the Hashimoto transformer line and have a fairly large collection of power, choke and SET outputs which include their 7-watt, 20-watt and 30-watt single-ended outputs. I also have MQ iron and am currently having Mike build me a custom set of RH-40s with endbells, flying leads sans UL taps.
The 45 amp I'm running now uses the little H-507S (5/7K with 4-8-,16-ohm output and 7-watt rating). To date, these are probably the best shielded trannies/chokes I've used. Their power units are dead quiet, absolutely noiseless.
Thanks for the tip on the SGP community... maybe I'll have a chance to visit the dealer over the weekend. Thanks!
Regards, KM
cdwitmer said:
Yes, I'm one of those maniacs....
for those of you passing thru sunny Singapore .. drop me an email if you want to hear the Feastrex spks... me and my fellow maniacs will be more than happy to "poison" you... Back to the D5nf, drivers... IMO the simple bass reflex box works very well for Feastrex drivers... my observations are based on the D5nf and the D9e. So for the D5nf , do try the latest floor standing version from Mr Teramoto.. Joe actually has put the drawings on his website, I'll just copy the link below..
http://www.lotusgroupusa.com/Cabi D5_5e.pdf
It is my understanding that in the strict technical sense the 50 liter Feastrex enclosure is not of the bass reflex type so much as of the ML-TL type. Scottmoose and others described the differences for me previously in this thread:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1378878#post1378878
I don't know how accurate are their various simulations of those Feastrex enclosures, but anyway it might be worth going back and reviewing a few of the posts before and after the one linked above.
The funky 50-liter enclosure that Joe Cohen was so positive about a few days ago (it's just a minor variant of the "official" Feastrex 50-liter enclosure in the PDF on Joe's site) is proving to be quite popular here in Japan -- the low cost and ease of construction coupled with the fine sound make it a good choice where looks are not a primary concern (i.e., due to the visible screw heads, etc.
Also, FWIW, Mr. Teramoto did tell me the other day that he thought it might be a good idea to experiment with lower placement of the port in that enclosure . . .
-- Chris
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1378878#post1378878
I don't know how accurate are their various simulations of those Feastrex enclosures, but anyway it might be worth going back and reviewing a few of the posts before and after the one linked above.
The funky 50-liter enclosure that Joe Cohen was so positive about a few days ago (it's just a minor variant of the "official" Feastrex 50-liter enclosure in the PDF on Joe's site) is proving to be quite popular here in Japan -- the low cost and ease of construction coupled with the fine sound make it a good choice where looks are not a primary concern (i.e., due to the visible screw heads, etc.
Also, FWIW, Mr. Teramoto did tell me the other day that he thought it might be a good idea to experiment with lower placement of the port in that enclosure . . .
-- Chris
"Help!" . . . I need to come up with a DIYable enclosure that would allow the use of the Feastrex D5e 5-inch field coil driver under the following installation constraints:
1) Although the D5e has frequency response characteristics that are basically like those of the D5nf, the D5e is far more highly damped. (D5e Qts is probably below 0.3, versus around 0.6 for the D5nf.)
2) There are a pair of high quality powered subwoofers (Rythmik 12-inch servo subs, sealed enclosures) to handle the lowest of the bass. They will be placed in close proximity to the main speakers. The crossover frequency can be set anywhere from 40Hz to 160Hz. That doesn't mean these subs MUST be used, but they are available . . .
3) The height of the enclosures is fixed at 795mm. The maximum width of the enclosures is 295mm and the maximum depth is 420mm. They can of course be narrower or shallower than that; however, the height cannot be easily changed.
4) The above are external dimensions; the wood on hand is mostly 24mm thick and I calculate that if a simple sealed enclosure was built to the maximum available dimensions, after bracing with the available bracing materials, the internal volume of the cabinet (BEFORE deducting for the driver itself) would be about 60 liters.
5) The internal volume of the current "standard" Feastrex enclosure for the 5-inch drivers is 50 liters; however, I suspect that given the taller and skinnier dimensions of the Feastrex enclosure, the sound has as much to do with the dimensions as it does with the volume, and it might be hard to predict what would happen if something like that was tried within the dimensional constraints faced here . . .
6) There is no insistence on any particular enclosure type. Whatever can sound best in the above setting is what is desired.
Thoughts? Any help would be GREATLY appreciated.
-- Chris
1) Although the D5e has frequency response characteristics that are basically like those of the D5nf, the D5e is far more highly damped. (D5e Qts is probably below 0.3, versus around 0.6 for the D5nf.)
2) There are a pair of high quality powered subwoofers (Rythmik 12-inch servo subs, sealed enclosures) to handle the lowest of the bass. They will be placed in close proximity to the main speakers. The crossover frequency can be set anywhere from 40Hz to 160Hz. That doesn't mean these subs MUST be used, but they are available . . .
3) The height of the enclosures is fixed at 795mm. The maximum width of the enclosures is 295mm and the maximum depth is 420mm. They can of course be narrower or shallower than that; however, the height cannot be easily changed.
4) The above are external dimensions; the wood on hand is mostly 24mm thick and I calculate that if a simple sealed enclosure was built to the maximum available dimensions, after bracing with the available bracing materials, the internal volume of the cabinet (BEFORE deducting for the driver itself) would be about 60 liters.
5) The internal volume of the current "standard" Feastrex enclosure for the 5-inch drivers is 50 liters; however, I suspect that given the taller and skinnier dimensions of the Feastrex enclosure, the sound has as much to do with the dimensions as it does with the volume, and it might be hard to predict what would happen if something like that was tried within the dimensional constraints faced here . . .
6) There is no insistence on any particular enclosure type. Whatever can sound best in the above setting is what is desired.
Thoughts? Any help would be GREATLY appreciated.
-- Chris
K.I.S.S. method
Hi Chris,
Since you have two sealed subs already, why not put the D5e in an appropriately sized sealed box, mount it on top of the subs at the desired height, suitably decoupled either straddling the subs on it own stand or similar to Warwicks design resting on top and run it full range. If the frequency response looks similar to the D5nf it will need a wide baffle to flesh out the 100-200hz range and about 10L for a nice 6db/oct rolloff. Since both sub and mains will be in a sealed box phase will be coherent it will be easier to get a seamless transition. All level and frequency shaping can be handled by the bass control.
Brian
PS: suggest to drive the subamps from the main amp out through a dropper resistor into the low level inputs if your subs have that facilty
Hi Chris,
Since you have two sealed subs already, why not put the D5e in an appropriately sized sealed box, mount it on top of the subs at the desired height, suitably decoupled either straddling the subs on it own stand or similar to Warwicks design resting on top and run it full range. If the frequency response looks similar to the D5nf it will need a wide baffle to flesh out the 100-200hz range and about 10L for a nice 6db/oct rolloff. Since both sub and mains will be in a sealed box phase will be coherent it will be easier to get a seamless transition. All level and frequency shaping can be handled by the bass control.
Brian
PS: suggest to drive the subamps from the main amp out through a dropper resistor into the low level inputs if your subs have that facilty
Amazing what you can do with photoshop, isn't it?
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
13L Featrex D5nf
Just to update: I've done 2 things since the above:
1. installed the 0-8-16-22ohm OPT and
2. mounted the drivers from the back and removed teh basket rim mounting screws.
Last time I compared 4/16ohms. The difference between 8/16ohms was less than half to 4/16ohms numbers. The 22ohm OPT doesn't have the 4 ohms taps so will have to compare with what we've got:
referenced to 8 ohm: frq/db change 16/22ohm tap
70hz/+0.75/+1db
100hz/+1.2/+1.5db
1khz/-0.2/-0.4db
5khz/+0.2/+0.5db
10khz/+0.4/+0.5db
20khz/+0.6/+1.5db
So there is still a little to be gained at the frequency extremes with the higher taps although not as great as 4/16ohm comparison.
Also I used WT3 to test the box tuning and F has dropped from 45 to 42.4hz so I'll pull out the drivers and retest as seems the driver is loosening up and Fs dropping? I guess the Vas getting larger then too.
Attached is the frequency response in room. Can't exactly be compared to my last measurement as probably the mic is in a different position and some boxes etc changed position.
I'm getting the feeling the amount of stuffing needed when the drivers were new is now too much. I'll pull out some in the next few days and see how that changes things.
Regards
brian
Just to update: I've done 2 things since the above:
1. installed the 0-8-16-22ohm OPT and
2. mounted the drivers from the back and removed teh basket rim mounting screws.
Last time I compared 4/16ohms. The difference between 8/16ohms was less than half to 4/16ohms numbers. The 22ohm OPT doesn't have the 4 ohms taps so will have to compare with what we've got:
referenced to 8 ohm: frq/db change 16/22ohm tap
70hz/+0.75/+1db
100hz/+1.2/+1.5db
1khz/-0.2/-0.4db
5khz/+0.2/+0.5db
10khz/+0.4/+0.5db
20khz/+0.6/+1.5db
So there is still a little to be gained at the frequency extremes with the higher taps although not as great as 4/16ohm comparison.
Also I used WT3 to test the box tuning and F has dropped from 45 to 42.4hz so I'll pull out the drivers and retest as seems the driver is loosening up and Fs dropping? I guess the Vas getting larger then too.
Attached is the frequency response in room. Can't exactly be compared to my last measurement as probably the mic is in a different position and some boxes etc changed position.
I'm getting the feeling the amount of stuffing needed when the drivers were new is now too much. I'll pull out some in the next few days and see how that changes things.
Regards
brian
Attachments
Dear
"The truest test for me is that my wife says its the best sound we've ever had here and she's heard all of the other Feastrex drivers, not to mention all of the other previous speakers."
Which one you and your wife think sounds best D5e ver II or D9e?.
What kind of music are you listening the D5ever II and D9 with?.
Thanks
"The truest test for me is that my wife says its the best sound we've ever had here and she's heard all of the other Feastrex drivers, not to mention all of the other previous speakers."
Which one you and your wife think sounds best D5e ver II or D9e?.
What kind of music are you listening the D5ever II and D9 with?.
Thanks
Hi
Yesterday I was at the RAAl audio
we listened new loudspeaker system from RAAl
and did not have the energy to move all sys and replace with the
D9nf in some kind of cabinet I dont remebered but not horn
Maybe other time
(news out of topic:
RAAL preparing a ribbon tweeter with 3K load for direct
tube loading... so just one transformer inside the ribbon....)
my impressions
I saw, and take a close look at the
some specimens of feastrex drivers
D9nf
D5nf
and moving mechanism paper cone and surround from D5nf
with a signature of the inventor...
the realisation is very serious, precise, and good looking.
the drivers are very heavy and robust,
paper cone is very good, with inteligent tecnical solutions
starr at the cone side to make it stronger...
surround is from natural skin and with medium to light rigidity
that on fingers match the canteliver mechs.
The moving mass is not rigid and it is medium to light movable
all in all excelent first impressions
Yesterday I was at the RAAl audio
we listened new loudspeaker system from RAAl
and did not have the energy to move all sys and replace with the
D9nf in some kind of cabinet I dont remebered but not horn
Maybe other time
(news out of topic:
RAAL preparing a ribbon tweeter with 3K load for direct
tube loading... so just one transformer inside the ribbon....)
my impressions
I saw, and take a close look at the
some specimens of feastrex drivers
D9nf
D5nf
and moving mechanism paper cone and surround from D5nf
with a signature of the inventor...
the realisation is very serious, precise, and good looking.
the drivers are very heavy and robust,
paper cone is very good, with inteligent tecnical solutions
starr at the cone side to make it stronger...
surround is from natural skin and with medium to light rigidity
that on fingers match the canteliver mechs.
The moving mass is not rigid and it is medium to light movable
all in all excelent first impressions
D5e
Dear Gelato Monster,
"Which one you and your wife think sounds best D5e ver II or D9e?.
What kind of music are you listening the D5ever II and D9 with?."
The D5e Type II is certainly the most natural sounding driver I have ever heard. Everything about it is right. We listen to all kinds of music. I especially love Bluegrass, Alison Kraus, Blue Highway etc, but Jazz, Brazillian Jazz, world music - Indian, Persian, Middle Eastern, classical, tasteful rock. Everything sounds good on both the D9e II and the D5e II. The D5e II seems to have the more perfect balance, more open top end, but still incredibly rich and full, and it goes quite deep. It is a remarkable achievement.
Joe Cohen
Dear Gelato Monster,
"Which one you and your wife think sounds best D5e ver II or D9e?.
What kind of music are you listening the D5ever II and D9 with?."
The D5e Type II is certainly the most natural sounding driver I have ever heard. Everything about it is right. We listen to all kinds of music. I especially love Bluegrass, Alison Kraus, Blue Highway etc, but Jazz, Brazillian Jazz, world music - Indian, Persian, Middle Eastern, classical, tasteful rock. Everything sounds good on both the D9e II and the D5e II. The D5e II seems to have the more perfect balance, more open top end, but still incredibly rich and full, and it goes quite deep. It is a remarkable achievement.
Joe Cohen
Mmm, yummy. Feastrex and WE205D, all Western Electric tubes. Looks like one of my buddies is getting off to a good start . . .
-- Chris
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
-- Chris
. . . and into the box . . .
Right about now, he's in 7th heaven . . .
Without your love,
It's a honky tonk parade.
Without your love,
It's a melody played in a penny arcade . . .
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Right about now, he's in 7th heaven . . .
Without your love,
It's a honky tonk parade.
Without your love,
It's a melody played in a penny arcade . . .
I thought I'd share a few comments from my correspondent concerning his new speakers, shown in the last two posts. He has been a big fan of fullrange drivers, in addition to having used some large multi-way speakers over the years. He built the power supply himself but he is eventually probably going to build a more powerful one since he would like to have the ability to apply a higher voltage than his P/S is capable of. Initially he is using the voltage at 15V and will take it up higher in the coming days.
"My speakers are not for impressing other people . . . I listen by myself, and I generally listen at low volumes, while reading books and nursing a glass of my favorite poison.
"Altec and JBL speakers are too large for me, and their sound grates on my nerves after a while. They seem to lose their bass when you listen to them at low levels, and the emphasis of middle and high frequencies a low volumes is what I find irritatitng.
"I bought these 5-inch Feastrex field coil drivers because they appealed to my interests and my aesthetic sense, and because they fit my personal prejudices. I admit, however, that leading up to this purchase I had one lingering worry about these speakers -- how would their bass sound at low volume levels?
"Because of my visits to the Feastrex listening room, I already knew that they had amazing brilliance, tightness, solidity, and power. But I was still worried about how the bass was going to sound under my low-volume listening levels. After all, you can only expect so much from a 5-inch driver . . .
"In the very large, very live-sounding Feastrex listening room, where we played at extremely high volume levels, the bass was very impressive indeed, but surely that was due to a hidden subwoofer somewhere . . . (just kidding). In contrast, my room is tiny -- tiny and dead, being of typical Japanese construction with a grass tatami mat floor . . . not conducive to the production of really satisfying bass.
"For my initial listening tests I like to use a Stan Getz recording of big band bossa nova music. The rhythm is carried by the bass, rather than by drums -- a constant flowing of bass throughout the music, overlaid by piano, guitar, sax, trumpet, percussion, etc. This kind of music I find useful for exposing the strengths and weaknesses of speakers for playing my kinds of music. You can check the behavior and performance of the speakers across a broad range of frequencies all during the same phrase of the music, as well as the soundstage, imaging and definition of each instrument. When the reproduction is good, you can really get into the music, and when it's not, the music quickly becomes boring.
"These speakers are still new and I expect they will continue to get better for a long time, but one thing is immediately clear: even at really low volume levels, there is still a great deal of detail, even in the bass. You don't lose the bass no matter how low you turn it down. And the maracas, the high hat, etc. are also extremely clear, full, and clean. You can really get into the music, with each instrument being very clearly defined and vibrant even when the volume is turned way down."
"My speakers are not for impressing other people . . . I listen by myself, and I generally listen at low volumes, while reading books and nursing a glass of my favorite poison.
"Altec and JBL speakers are too large for me, and their sound grates on my nerves after a while. They seem to lose their bass when you listen to them at low levels, and the emphasis of middle and high frequencies a low volumes is what I find irritatitng.
"I bought these 5-inch Feastrex field coil drivers because they appealed to my interests and my aesthetic sense, and because they fit my personal prejudices. I admit, however, that leading up to this purchase I had one lingering worry about these speakers -- how would their bass sound at low volume levels?
"Because of my visits to the Feastrex listening room, I already knew that they had amazing brilliance, tightness, solidity, and power. But I was still worried about how the bass was going to sound under my low-volume listening levels. After all, you can only expect so much from a 5-inch driver . . .
"In the very large, very live-sounding Feastrex listening room, where we played at extremely high volume levels, the bass was very impressive indeed, but surely that was due to a hidden subwoofer somewhere . . . (just kidding). In contrast, my room is tiny -- tiny and dead, being of typical Japanese construction with a grass tatami mat floor . . . not conducive to the production of really satisfying bass.
"For my initial listening tests I like to use a Stan Getz recording of big band bossa nova music. The rhythm is carried by the bass, rather than by drums -- a constant flowing of bass throughout the music, overlaid by piano, guitar, sax, trumpet, percussion, etc. This kind of music I find useful for exposing the strengths and weaknesses of speakers for playing my kinds of music. You can check the behavior and performance of the speakers across a broad range of frequencies all during the same phrase of the music, as well as the soundstage, imaging and definition of each instrument. When the reproduction is good, you can really get into the music, and when it's not, the music quickly becomes boring.
"These speakers are still new and I expect they will continue to get better for a long time, but one thing is immediately clear: even at really low volume levels, there is still a great deal of detail, even in the bass. You don't lose the bass no matter how low you turn it down. And the maracas, the high hat, etc. are also extremely clear, full, and clean. You can really get into the music, with each instrument being very clearly defined and vibrant even when the volume is turned way down."
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