Hi Jonas,
i was one of the guys who tried the sample of your coating.
I applied it to several ESL and i can tell you, that even testing ESL's stored outside in the garage for years charge perfectly when setup today. Your coating was clear transparent with i light red appearance.
The conductivity is exactly proportional to the dilution instruction you provided to the sample .
All i can say after ten years ! is that it is frustrating not having this coating avaiable anymore.
As you told me some month ago about the recipe of the coating, i was amazed about the simple kind of components and you are right, they arent avaiable anymore.
Now I use EC-Coating from martin-Jan and my experience of about 200 ESL's produced is the same way excellent. The only thing to mention is, that it took me a lot of trials to get it applied without stripes in the coating. Those stripes might not be critical functional, but i want thecoating to look as perfect as possible.
Summary: If you need a coating that works, last long, easy to apply.......take EC-Coating.
PS: I tried the römer and the ER coating as well. My result: I good result is a subject of random. Just a little bit high humidity when applied - no wetting. Just a little bit too cold/warm) when applied - conductivity is pingpong (low or high)
Capaciti
i was one of the guys who tried the sample of your coating.
I applied it to several ESL and i can tell you, that even testing ESL's stored outside in the garage for years charge perfectly when setup today. Your coating was clear transparent with i light red appearance.
The conductivity is exactly proportional to the dilution instruction you provided to the sample .
All i can say after ten years ! is that it is frustrating not having this coating avaiable anymore.
As you told me some month ago about the recipe of the coating, i was amazed about the simple kind of components and you are right, they arent avaiable anymore.
Now I use EC-Coating from martin-Jan and my experience of about 200 ESL's produced is the same way excellent. The only thing to mention is, that it took me a lot of trials to get it applied without stripes in the coating. Those stripes might not be critical functional, but i want thecoating to look as perfect as possible.
Summary: If you need a coating that works, last long, easy to apply.......take EC-Coating.
PS: I tried the römer and the ER coating as well. My result: I good result is a subject of random. Just a little bit high humidity when applied - no wetting. Just a little bit too cold/warm) when applied - conductivity is pingpong (low or high)
Capaciti
JonasKarud said:
I don't know, I haven't tried it. I would suspect that it's not strong enough, but it's worth trying if you've got one laying around. I would certainly allow a very minimum time between treatment and coating, i.e., coat as quickly as possible following treatment.
Measuring surface energy is a bit trickier. I use dyne solutions (basically dyed mixtures of two solvents in different proportions for different dyne levels); a bit of the solution is painted onto the surface and either wets or beads up. A qualitative way to examine surface energy is to carefully put a drop of water on the surface and look at the contact angle compared to the contact angle of an untreated surface.
No, that won't work for several reasons. You want to treat a clean, dry surface. This will allow the applied coating to wet the surface thoroughly and "bite in." Treating from the rear will only treat the rear- this is a surface effect, not a bulk one.
A good surface treatment will cause breakage of chemical bonds, formation of radicals, and some oxidation of the surface. The depth of this disruption is on the order of 100 angstroms.
A good surface treatment will cause breakage of chemical bonds, formation of radicals, and some oxidation of the surface. The depth of this disruption is on the order of 100 angstroms.
Hi Jonas,
funny that you request my permission for open knowledge of YOUR !!! recipe.
I do not have any problem with it.
So feel free to announce your recipe
PS: I wondering about discussion of corona treatment. As coating will have adequate wetting, there is no need for corona treatment, i would even expect additional negative effects regarding performance under high humidity, since the rougher surface will attract more water molecules.
Capaciti
funny that you request my permission for open knowledge of YOUR !!! recipe.
I do not have any problem with it.
So feel free to announce your recipe
PS: I wondering about discussion of corona treatment. As coating will have adequate wetting, there is no need for corona treatment, i would even expect additional negative effects regarding performance under high humidity, since the rougher surface will attract more water molecules.
Capaciti
Thanks for the helpful comments, Sy. I hadn't caught the important point that a non-point source of the discharge is used.
Do you have any idea of whether a UV lamp might serve a similar purpose and whether the mylar would tolerate it? They both generate ozone, and I've used a UV lamp to clean surfaces in other contexts. The UV source might be cheaper/easier to rig up than a Tesla coil system for DIYers, but I think the ozone production might be lower.
I made a UV source by removing the glass shroud from a discharge lamp I bought at Home De(s)pot. It's not something that would receive OSHA's blessing, but it gets the job done for small samples in an enclosed space.
Few
Do you have any idea of whether a UV lamp might serve a similar purpose and whether the mylar would tolerate it? They both generate ozone, and I've used a UV lamp to clean surfaces in other contexts. The UV source might be cheaper/easier to rig up than a Tesla coil system for DIYers, but I think the ozone production might be lower.
I made a UV source by removing the glass shroud from a discharge lamp I bought at Home De(s)pot. It's not something that would receive OSHA's blessing, but it gets the job done for small samples in an enclosed space.
Few
I played around with UV as a surface treatment about 15 years ago. It wasn't optimum, it took a LOT of intensity, and it tended to degrade the bulk. It heated the substrate like crazy, too. I've also used open plasma systems (from Electro in St. Louis), but besides being big and expensive, they only worked intermittently- the planets apparently had to be in alignment...
Blown arc/plasma is still the very best way, but that's not a diy-friendly procedure! The best one I tried was from Arcojet.
Blown arc/plasma is still the very best way, but that's not a diy-friendly procedure! The best one I tried was from Arcojet.
Corona Treatment Electrode
You might take a look at US Patent 4693869 to get an idea what electrode geometry might work well for attaching to a tesla coil for surface treatment.
http://www.google.com/patents?id=S2...t&zoom=4&source=gbs_summary_r&cad=0_0#PPA1,M1
Few said:
You might take a look at US Patent 4693869 to get an idea what electrode geometry might work well for attaching to a tesla coil for surface treatment.
http://www.google.com/patents?id=S2...t&zoom=4&source=gbs_summary_r&cad=0_0#PPA1,M1